Sorry Peter, I don't want to sound pedantic or negative to you.
I read several of the posts in that thread, but it all seems bla bla, anecdotal, lots of adjectives no facts. I'm sorry, I can't do anything with that kind of ramblings.
You know, there soooo much on the Internet on any subject. Anybody with a keyboard can post the greatest literature. The real problem of the 'net is to separate the clueless from those who really know what they're talking about. Very often the line is thin. In this case, it's easy.
Jan Didden
I read several of the posts in that thread, but it all seems bla bla, anecdotal, lots of adjectives no facts. I'm sorry, I can't do anything with that kind of ramblings.
You know, there soooo much on the Internet on any subject. Anybody with a keyboard can post the greatest literature. The real problem of the 'net is to separate the clueless from those who really know what they're talking about. Very often the line is thin. In this case, it's easy.
Jan Didden
Let me try...
I made a small sample which I found interesting to hear the difference between an LP and a CD.
Note the noise on the LP part but also the compressed sound of the CD.
The CD was ripped with EAC.
It’s an uncompressed .wav file of 10.5Mb (!) and uploaded here.
The measured performance of the CD is way better than the LP but to me the music is lifeless on the former.
/Hugo
janneman said:
I made a small sample which I found interesting to hear the difference between an LP and a CD.
Note the noise on the LP part but also the compressed sound of the CD.
The CD was ripped with EAC.
It’s an uncompressed .wav file of 10.5Mb (!) and uploaded here.
The measured performance of the CD is way better than the LP but to me the music is lifeless on the former.
/Hugo
Re: Let me try...
Hugo,
The sample I got was produced as follows (thanks Leo!):
Sony DD record player with AT20SLA pick-up;
Sony preamp TA-E90ES to M-audio Audiophile USB, recording in Magic Cleaning Labs (24 bit/96kHz);
Some tracks are auto-cleaned, some manually (de-clicking);
Downsample to 16 bit WAV;
Record at 4x speed with EAC.
CD's were special audio spec'd MAM-E (Mitsui) Pro Studio optimised for low write rates and low focus- & tracking error (they also apparently are guaranteed for 200 years live span...)
After just a single listen, to me that sounds like an LP with none of the specific CD problems. I'll try your file later.
Jan Didden
Netlist said:
Hugo,
The sample I got was produced as follows (thanks Leo!):
Sony DD record player with AT20SLA pick-up;
Sony preamp TA-E90ES to M-audio Audiophile USB, recording in Magic Cleaning Labs (24 bit/96kHz);
Some tracks are auto-cleaned, some manually (de-clicking);
Downsample to 16 bit WAV;
Record at 4x speed with EAC.
CD's were special audio spec'd MAM-E (Mitsui) Pro Studio optimised for low write rates and low focus- & tracking error (they also apparently are guaranteed for 200 years live span...)
After just a single listen, to me that sounds like an LP with none of the specific CD problems. I'll try your file later.
Jan Didden
Jan,
You are spoiled...
Sample here was made with less exotic gear.
LP: SL1200MKII with Grado Prestige ->Aleph Ono->SB-Live->Audition 2.0->32bit->16bit.
CD: Plextor PX-750A (which isn't even a Plextor)->EAC->imported in Audition 2.0
Note that I made a rip of the original LP and another of the original CD, joined in one .wav.
I only want to show a typical difference in sound between original analogue and digital copies.
So, at the moment I'm not comparing recordings of rips.
Will do later.
/Hugo
You are spoiled...
Sample here was made with less exotic gear.
LP: SL1200MKII with Grado Prestige ->Aleph Ono->SB-Live->Audition 2.0->32bit->16bit.
CD: Plextor PX-750A (which isn't even a Plextor)->EAC->imported in Audition 2.0
Note that I made a rip of the original LP and another of the original CD, joined in one .wav.
I only want to show a typical difference in sound between original analogue and digital copies.
So, at the moment I'm not comparing recordings of rips.
Will do later.
/Hugo
This is what i think too...but this is dangerous to post.
"No competition. Compared to the LP, the CD sounded dull, lifeless, flat. I know, it flies in the face of common knowledge, and in the face of my beliefs.
I'm still grappling with my experiences and perceptions from that evening."
I agree with your text copied above Janemman
Carlos
"No competition. Compared to the LP, the CD sounded dull, lifeless, flat. I know, it flies in the face of common knowledge, and in the face of my beliefs.
I'm still grappling with my experiences and perceptions from that evening."
I agree with your text copied above Janemman
Carlos
This thread remains interesting, digitising analog recordings is an overseen topic. (just realised)
I have a large collection of albums from all over the world, imported or bought abroad.
Most of it never put on CD after 1982; Salsa albums from the French and Dutch antilles, albums from various African nations, stuff from Brasil and so on.
I've engaged in some efforts to put them on CD myself.
Initially with the very first Analog-to-CD kit, developed by a former Philips employé. Later attempts with Magic CL.
Not succesfully, although a lot of the stuff from those places is/was not really good recorded, digitising took out the remaining bit.
I've kept a record player for those recordings, for good recordings analog lost the battle imo around at the end of the 80s when the Marantz CD80 came out.
(admitted, i don't like coughers on live-recordings and still enjoy the additional features of CD-players. I was one of the first to try out CD with a pre-production CD-100)
I realise i need a much better soundcard, the M-Audio one looks very nice. Interested in hearing how to get the most out of an album.
I have a large collection of albums from all over the world, imported or bought abroad.
Most of it never put on CD after 1982; Salsa albums from the French and Dutch antilles, albums from various African nations, stuff from Brasil and so on.
I've engaged in some efforts to put them on CD myself.
Initially with the very first Analog-to-CD kit, developed by a former Philips employé. Later attempts with Magic CL.
Not succesfully, although a lot of the stuff from those places is/was not really good recorded, digitising took out the remaining bit.
I've kept a record player for those recordings, for good recordings analog lost the battle imo around at the end of the 80s when the Marantz CD80 came out.
(admitted, i don't like coughers on live-recordings and still enjoy the additional features of CD-players. I was one of the first to try out CD with a pre-production CD-100)
I realise i need a much better soundcard, the M-Audio one looks very nice. Interested in hearing how to get the most out of an album.
Several years ago, I read a report on a digital HiFi-Show in New York. One company attracted large crowds because they demonstrated such excellent sound. It was all from CD. When asked, what CD's they used, they said that these were copies they made from analog records in order to show the full potential of their setup. I can't remember the exact details, but that was about it.
I think this agrees with other opinions here. It would be interesting to convert some analog records to CD and then do a blind comparison. Leave all the cracks and noise unedited, so it sounds real analog. If you do this carefully and with quality equipment, can you hear which is which?
Kurt
I think this agrees with other opinions here. It would be interesting to convert some analog records to CD and then do a blind comparison. Leave all the cracks and noise unedited, so it sounds real analog. If you do this carefully and with quality equipment, can you hear which is which?
Kurt
Yes, the intention is to compare directly the analog source with a cd-copy made from the same analog source. This avoids any differencies due to mastering. Still, the CD would be at a slight disadvantage, because it has gone through additional signal processing (PC-sound card, CD-player).
I wonder if anybody has done this, prefeably in a level matched blind test setup where you don't know which source is selected.
Kurt
I wonder if anybody has done this, prefeably in a level matched blind test setup where you don't know which source is selected.
Kurt
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