IMO,if they priced some of these things more reasonably,they could cut down on the piracy. Charging zillions of dollars for a piece of software (no matter how fancy) is to their own detriment. If people can't afford it,how can you expect to sell it?
As mentioned earlier,if you wouldn't/couldn't have bought it anyways,I don't see it causing too much harm.
As mentioned earlier,if you wouldn't/couldn't have bought it anyways,I don't see it causing too much harm.
For CAD software, I can highly recommend Diptrace... http://www.diptrace.com/index.php
Their non-profit freeware version gives you 250pin max, but otherwise is fine for most hobby purposes. The standard of software is very high quality IMHO. They also have an escalating pricing policy, so you can get licenced copies at very reasonable levels.
I think this pricing model is the ideal when selling software. Pricing models I think have a lot to do with preventing piracy. If you offer your product (even in restricted versions) at a low enough price point, people will be less inclined to use a pirated version.
Selling higher priced versions for commercial use makes more sense, especially if you then offer improved response times and other services to justify the higher cost. There is an advantage to the software house in doing this. If you can get your product into homes, and even better to students, it becomes ubiquitous and therefore indispensible to businesses. Some companies are very turned onto this, others less so.
As for the origional poster... I would say that the only reasonable way you can justify doing this is if you install the software for evaluation with the intent to buy. Thats if you feel you need a moral justification.
A little tip... Cough Microsoft Virtual PC
Safe, reversible method for "trying" out software
Their non-profit freeware version gives you 250pin max, but otherwise is fine for most hobby purposes. The standard of software is very high quality IMHO. They also have an escalating pricing policy, so you can get licenced copies at very reasonable levels.
I think this pricing model is the ideal when selling software. Pricing models I think have a lot to do with preventing piracy. If you offer your product (even in restricted versions) at a low enough price point, people will be less inclined to use a pirated version.
Selling higher priced versions for commercial use makes more sense, especially if you then offer improved response times and other services to justify the higher cost. There is an advantage to the software house in doing this. If you can get your product into homes, and even better to students, it becomes ubiquitous and therefore indispensible to businesses. Some companies are very turned onto this, others less so.
As for the origional poster... I would say that the only reasonable way you can justify doing this is if you install the software for evaluation with the intent to buy. Thats if you feel you need a moral justification.
A little tip... Cough Microsoft Virtual PC
Safe, reversible method for "trying" out software
Well there are always several alternatives to this. Buying original software has lots of legal issues connected. On the other hand, using cracked software can also lead to some law problems if the copyright company comes to know about that.. I basically prefer what is best,easy and safe for me... That's just my point of view...
im new here and all, and just getting to know the website and i came across this whole post and it intrigued me especially this post. I agree alot with it as i have had to use an alternate version of some piece of software to fully understand it and verify that it was what i wanted before deciding to purchase it, after which i did purchase it and it turned out to be the right decision.
i do pose a question, is electronics repair intellectual property or physical? if i call up "an electronics repair guy" and ask him if he could at least help me get an idea of what is wrong with my amp and he says no you would have to bring it in(even though he knows fully that i cannot afford it or want to attempt repair of it on my own) so then i come onto a website like this and ask the same question and tons of people were to chime in and give me there opinions, maybe even tell me exactly how to fix it, thus "taking business away from said repair man" is that stealing of intellectual property? if you ask said repair man probably is, but if you ask the people who distributed the information probably not.
Sorry these kind of posts and the question of morality posts get to me sometimes.
to the OP i say if you need the software and it is for one use or something use it, if you like it then you can probably justify paying for it, perhaps there is a demo version of the software as well?
Banned
Joined 2002
the only thing we should not have to pay for is Microcrap, because we pay to have it fixed every month with viruses and spyware, So windowz should be free 
I feel it like this, If yu really are thinking about buying it, then go ahead and install it and try it, if you like it buy it, if not remove it.
I have TONS of software cracked etc etc, but then again i also have lots purchased too. I hate the fact that you walk into a store buy some software with a NICE big fat shiny sticker on it that says best does this this this this and this, but when you get it home it does NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING or doesn't work or glitches etc etc, go to return it NOPE not gonna happen. You opened it you bought it.
THATS why i'll use trial's or cracked copy's to see if it really actually does work and does what it says it does.
sorry, my rant for the day,
P.s i use mac, pc's are dime a dozen and never work properly
I feel it like this, If yu really are thinking about buying it, then go ahead and install it and try it, if you like it buy it, if not remove it.
I have TONS of software cracked etc etc, but then again i also have lots purchased too. I hate the fact that you walk into a store buy some software with a NICE big fat shiny sticker on it that says best does this this this this and this, but when you get it home it does NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING or doesn't work or glitches etc etc, go to return it NOPE not gonna happen. You opened it you bought it.
THATS why i'll use trial's or cracked copy's to see if it really actually does work and does what it says it does.
sorry, my rant for the day,
P.s i use mac, pc's are dime a dozen and never work properly
P.s i use mac, pc's are dime a dozen and never work properly
Have you tried "penguin power" yet?
Cheers!
History Lesson vs Karma?
Picasso said it "Good artist copy, great artist steal". I first heard this when Steve Jobs made an indirect and somewhat bitter reference to Bill Gates' 'borrowing' the idea for what became Windows from Jobs while he (Microsoft) was contracted (for app. $31,000) to convert Apple's version of Basic to 'floating point' that 'other Steve' (The Woz) had casually written in 'fixed point'. One could say that the 'window' concept was 'part of Bill's take' seeing how 'property' wasn't defined by an 'Intellectual Agreement'.
Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak started out creating devices to hack into phones to obtain 'free' long distance phone calls. Seems legitimacy is defined by a legal staff that more times than not the 'new rich' pay for with the monies that they take from others. No Karma in that recent history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK7TQVFSA1Y&feature=related
Digging even deeper all processor commands being binary wouldn't exist if the Arabic concept of mathematical 'zero' hadn't been 'borrowed' and implemented from the Indian(Hindu) number system use of a '.' to occupy a 'significant' position(kha).
http://www.gap-system.org/~history/HistTopics/Zero.html
Blah, blah, blah ! : Excuse the 'run-on' trying to make a simple point.
Look at that software on your desk as peer pressure (Try it, you'll like it): It's not an ethical thing until you make it one; Question is: How well do you know yourself, questioning 'borrowing' verses 'stealing'. Me, I'll hack it to 'see if I can' but perfer to use 'share-ware' and 'open-source'.
Cost has little to do with quality: ie. 'boutique'
Suggest you attach a visible tag with the 'seat' price on it leave the question of steal vs borrow for someone else.
Charles
PS. I'm good, all the above 'obtained' material is referenced: But, tell me where is your desk at?
Hey, No one ever called Pablo Picasso an a__-h___ !
Picasso said it "Good artist copy, great artist steal". I first heard this when Steve Jobs made an indirect and somewhat bitter reference to Bill Gates' 'borrowing' the idea for what became Windows from Jobs while he (Microsoft) was contracted (for app. $31,000) to convert Apple's version of Basic to 'floating point' that 'other Steve' (The Woz) had casually written in 'fixed point'. One could say that the 'window' concept was 'part of Bill's take' seeing how 'property' wasn't defined by an 'Intellectual Agreement'.
Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak started out creating devices to hack into phones to obtain 'free' long distance phone calls. Seems legitimacy is defined by a legal staff that more times than not the 'new rich' pay for with the monies that they take from others. No Karma in that recent history!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK7TQVFSA1Y&feature=related
Digging even deeper all processor commands being binary wouldn't exist if the Arabic concept of mathematical 'zero' hadn't been 'borrowed' and implemented from the Indian(Hindu) number system use of a '.' to occupy a 'significant' position(kha).
http://www.gap-system.org/~history/HistTopics/Zero.html
Blah, blah, blah ! : Excuse the 'run-on' trying to make a simple point.
Look at that software on your desk as peer pressure (Try it, you'll like it): It's not an ethical thing until you make it one; Question is: How well do you know yourself, questioning 'borrowing' verses 'stealing'. Me, I'll hack it to 'see if I can' but perfer to use 'share-ware' and 'open-source'.
Cost has little to do with quality: ie. 'boutique'
Suggest you attach a visible tag with the 'seat' price on it leave the question of steal vs borrow for someone else.
Charles
PS. I'm good, all the above 'obtained' material is referenced: But, tell me where is your desk at?
Hey, No one ever called Pablo Picasso an a__-h___ !
I agree there, and a few other really badly written software packages.
ONLY in the software business do the customers silently pay for more and more junk.
Who would accept an amplifier, or speakers, that spontaneously stopped working & required restarting? Or would only play certain composers? Or allowed strangers into the house to listen to them?
Maybe we are going that way.. DVD players seem to be somewat like that, possibly BlueRays too. We should create a new videodisc format - call it GnuRay!
Thats a bit like the Linux situation, where people who know how to write software have done it - often better than the ones in it for profit - then they give it away free.
Stealing intellectual propery would be more like an employee of Sony, say, moonlighting and using Sony's company diagnostic tools, manuals, etc. either for his own profit, or to help his friends for no charge. I can see a moral issue there.
I just gotta say that I would treat my fellow man with respect and not steal from them. I don't go to someones house and steal anything, or even touch anything that doesn't belong to me without permission. But somehow I break the rules when it comes to programs. I have tried a few programs that were hacked, and I am glad I tried them, as I am sure I would have got taken by the person selling them. A Lot of junk out there. It's like do you want to buy a piece of candy licked only three times or four. Dis honest in a sense but after being taken to cleaners all my life for being honest I am just being cautious. If you like the program then buy it. Kinda like looking at your spouse before you marry or after you marry. I don't like surprises. I dont have a lot of money to throw in the wind. I could spend hundreds of dollars (if I had) finding a program that works or sift through them. The trials sometimes don't open up all the way to test all the functions. Do you buy a car before you drive it or after? I really like to use free programs that have a free license. I think some people are just greedy and want all they can get, when if they lower the price they would sell more and actually make money.
I doubt that's legal. If you manage to do that, it'll probably be considered tax evasion.
My two cents on the IP issue: I consider the concept of intellectual property absurd. If one does make an illicit copy of a piece of software, without ever having any intention to pay for it, the truth is that the software developers will not suffer any financial loss, therefore it is not analoguous to theft. That doesn't mean that it's ok or that it doesn't hurt the developers, it just doesn't hurt their bottom line. The way I see it, is that software (or music or movies) is a service provided by the developers. The developers made the software and are asking to be compensated, if you use it, which is well within their rights.
Actually, it's done all the time and quite legal (in that there's no specific law against it). Though the specifics vary from one province/state to another.
Heh, that's what "numbered companies" are for... unofficially
Cheers!
That's not exactly true. To develop anything takes a large investment in research and time (which both cost money). To do this the developers either need to take out a loan, or 'borrow' from the company's financial resources. That they will recover this from predicted profits is factored into how much they spend on development.
Copying the product prevents them from recovering their investment. Although knowing that their are software pirates out there is undoubtedly factored in anyway nowdays.
How about the Chinese clones of many reputable brands: Is that Ok since they are not actually stealing any physical product from the original manufacturers?
You have taken my statement out of context. Of course they can lose money by developing software that people don't pay for. The point was that they can't lose the money that was never going to be paid anyway. But like I said, that doesn't make copying ok, just that it's not stealing. As to the example of Chinese clones, the original manufacturer does indeed lose money, since every clone sold is a unit that could have been sold by the OM (maybe not for the full price, but sold never the less).
About eight years ago I was given by my employer legally licensed schematic and PCB Layout software to use on my home computer as part of my job under the license of my employer. Since that time there have been several revisions, a change of (software company) ownership, and finally a lack of further support as the original has been replaced by a different product. At this point my employer purchased new software from another entity. The software was never marketed to the hobby enthusiast. The price in 2001 was in excess of $4000.00. The intent was to market this software to industry, not to individual consumers.
This software it is no longer marketed, supported, or available, and it certainly seems abundantly clear that they had no intention to market it to hobby users. As this software has become the sweepings on the production floor of a company which no longer exists, I do not feel the smallest vestige of guilt in using it on occasion for my not for profit hobby. I however do not distribute this software.
This software it is no longer marketed, supported, or available, and it certainly seems abundantly clear that they had no intention to market it to hobby users. As this software has become the sweepings on the production floor of a company which no longer exists, I do not feel the smallest vestige of guilt in using it on occasion for my not for profit hobby. I however do not distribute this software.
Heh, I actually just purchased a MS product for the first time ever (though I've been a XP user since it's release).
I couldn't pass up the awesome deal of $15 for Win7 Ultimate (University employee discount). I could have easily downloaded this, but $15 to know it's 100% authentic is well worth it.
Banned
Joined 2002
For 15$ id buy it, but retail price is WAY OVER PRICED like seriously, you just paid 15$ for software that they are charging 3-500$ for.
remember windows xp pro ? 499$ OEM, and retail box was like 600 RIP, no woneder so many people burned and pirated it.
Jason, I pulled your post encouraging people to break the law. Don't do that again, please.
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