Hi There is an excellent section on this on the vinylengine.com forum. Look in the section for music. There is an entire portion devoted to this subject. (huge) Several possible methods and solutions are presented. I use a record cleaning machine with a solution of 1 pint isopropol alcohol to 10 pints distilled water, a teaspoon of regular dawn (unscented etc) and a teaspoon of dishwasher wetting agent. Since I buy lots of used LPs that are often rather cruddy this works quite well. A final rinse of distilled water and dry off in the Record Doctor vacuum machine. Just keep the cleaning solution off the labels, they will fade to nothing in no time flat.
Thank you. That it the first reasoned explanation I have seen on this. Having read the Pardee AES paper on record friction changes after washing I'm not changing my views that you should only wet clean a record if the benefit outweighs the risk, at least until I have had time (and disposable vinyl) to check his results against different labels.
But what wierdo drinks alcohol out of a plastic glass by choice?
I used to work at a used record shop when I was a student. We were cleaning records just wiping them with alcohol with eyeglass cloth. Two reasons I guess, it dries quick and it makes the records very shiny. Good method to remove the finger prints, but I don't know if it can reduce the surface noise.
Having read the Pardee AES paper on record friction changes after washing I'm not changing my views that you should only wet clean a record if the benefit outweighs the risk, at least until I have had time (and disposable vinyl) to check his results against different labels.
Hi Bill - can you give me a link to this paper ... or summarise its points?
I'm struggling to think why the friction of a stylus in a groove should change for the negative, when you do a wet/vac clean or an ultrasonic clean.
If you agree that a wet/vac clean or ultrasonic clean will remove dust from the grooves ... then I fail to see why this would make an LP sound worse (than it not being cleaned).
Andy
I skimmed the paper - Ron having kindly provided the link - and I couldn't pick up anything that suggested wet cleaning an LP was detrimental to the sound.
So I would be grateful if you would you identify which part of the article you took to heart.
Thanks,
Andy
Thanks, Ron. With my quick scan, I didn't see any definitive statements standing out.
Which is a very common problem!
Andy
My actual takeaway is several fold.
There are a number of tests he did where record friction increased significantly. Friction increases have some correlation with surface noise*. So cleaning a record could make it noisier. Audibly noisier is a different question, but there is a data point for the cleaning causing 'damage' in its widest sense.
As he doesn't mention the cleaning formulation or record labels the data is inconclusive and needs to be retried. I have a suitably low friction turntable but would need to hook up a drive mechanism as I can't drop the belt as he did.
If a record is clean out the packet, with low noise and no clicks and pops (or very few) then I see no point cleaning it as there is nothing to gain (no dirt to remove) and an associated risk. If a record is visibly and audibly dirty then the benefit clearly outweights any other worries and I would wash and vac.
It is on my 'when I get a round tuit' list to try and replicate this work but no idea when I will be able to.
I don't feel that my concluding that cleaning dirty records is good, but cleaning for the sake of it may not be to be confirmation bias, just caution. But I do accept the data is not complete.
*as people who have tried it know, wet playing does make noisy records quieter. It also in many cases makes them unplayable dry for reasons no one has worked out.
There are a number of tests he did where record friction increased significantly. Friction increases have some correlation with surface noise*. So cleaning a record could make it noisier. Audibly noisier is a different question, but there is a data point for the cleaning causing 'damage' in its widest sense.
As he doesn't mention the cleaning formulation or record labels the data is inconclusive and needs to be retried. I have a suitably low friction turntable but would need to hook up a drive mechanism as I can't drop the belt as he did.
If a record is clean out the packet, with low noise and no clicks and pops (or very few) then I see no point cleaning it as there is nothing to gain (no dirt to remove) and an associated risk. If a record is visibly and audibly dirty then the benefit clearly outweights any other worries and I would wash and vac.
It is on my 'when I get a round tuit' list to try and replicate this work but no idea when I will be able to.
I don't feel that my concluding that cleaning dirty records is good, but cleaning for the sake of it may not be to be confirmation bias, just caution. But I do accept the data is not complete.
*as people who have tried it know, wet playing does make noisy records quieter. It also in many cases makes them unplayable dry for reasons no one has worked out.
I've been using a mix of 80% distilled water with 20% IPA and early on photoflo and more recently tergitol. I've been doing this for more than 10 years without any obvious problems.
Cleaning may make very dirty records playable, and some have claimed (and I have no way to verify) that keeping vinyl scrupulously clean reduces stylus wear.
I have a quite a significant amount of money tied up in cartridges with non replaceable styli so I do try to keep things clean.
I've never found cleaning a noisy record will eliminate the noise, but it does frequently reduce it.
With 2 cats and bunnies I am not generally able to keep things scrupulously clean, and the man cave is dusty in its own right, although not as bad as some places friends play their records.
Cleaning may make very dirty records playable, and some have claimed (and I have no way to verify) that keeping vinyl scrupulously clean reduces stylus wear.
I have a quite a significant amount of money tied up in cartridges with non replaceable styli so I do try to keep things clean.
I've never found cleaning a noisy record will eliminate the noise, but it does frequently reduce it.
With 2 cats and bunnies I am not generally able to keep things scrupulously clean, and the man cave is dusty in its own right, although not as bad as some places friends play their records.
I clean my records with plain white vinegar. About 50cents a litre. A lot cheaper than IPA and seems to do a good job. I rinse under the kitchen tap. Yeah maybe I should use distilled water but lucky for me, Melbourne has the best tap water in Australia.
I can understand the decision to use Melbourne tap water (although I myself pay for distilled water in 10l containers, from AutoBarn) but I'm interested in the reasoning behind your use of 'plain white vinegar'.
Is it the fact that it's slightly acidic? (In which case, why not buy some pool acid and mix up your own, slightly acidic solution ... or even collect your own - free - urine and use that (which is slightly acidic).
)To my way of thinking, white vinegar will have a lot more impurities than an IPA mixture.
Don't make the mistake of thinking a cart which doesn't have a replaceable stylus assembly can't have its stylus replaced. Soundsmith and Expert Stylus offer excellent re-tipping services.
Andy
He says it is a phosphate detergent in water.
Phosphates are quite aggressive and are used to degloss paint.
How they react with vinyl or mold release I do not know, but you can't make any conclusion from what he has done as you don't know concentration or formulation of phosphate, and he didn't test any other fluids other than lubricants....
What mold release?
Your reading is you cannot conclude anything. Mine is that there is more research needed, especially as no-one, outside of marketing where they stick a male model in a lab coat has actually produced any data that particular formulations are safe. If I can work out a drive mechanism it could be a bit of fun and at least some data.
Glad I don't collect lacquers. See here https://www.nedcc.org/audio-preservation/cleaning-discs .
Your reading is you cannot conclude anything. Mine is that there is more research needed, especially as no-one, outside of marketing where they stick a male model in a lab coat has actually produced any data that particular formulations are safe. If I can work out a drive mechanism it could be a bit of fun and at least some data.
Glad I don't collect lacquers. See here https://www.nedcc.org/audio-preservation/cleaning-discs .
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