After building 4 or more times a concerti 108 clone I decided on a new horn , being insired by the way Ron folds the 126 horns.
This because the "frugel"horn design was to low for my ears.
I'm working on a detailed drawing, if anyone is in need for it.
Because I also did a group build with children I was able to compare the concerti clone to the ibR 108 horn.
The ibR wins by a large marge!!
Don't do to much posting but this one is really nice, even compared 2 my lowther dx3 on OB.
This because the "frugel"horn design was to low for my ears.
I'm working on a detailed drawing, if anyone is in need for it.
Because I also did a group build with children I was able to compare the concerti clone to the ibR 108 horn.
The ibR wins by a large marge!!
Don't do to much posting but this one is really nice, even compared 2 my lowther dx3 on OB.
Attachments
To rjbond3rd,
1 i(nspired) b
R(on) 108 horn.
Ron Clark did several designs, all of them "feel"good. But no specific
fe108ez design.
2 Did a lot of reading about the 108;
Vc between 1,5 and 2,5 Liter , in my design 2,78L , adjusted with styroporblock to 1,9 liter.Sounds the best in my room.
Line lenght 1,8 m and more , even some Japanese designs were 2,7 m.
my line is 2,2m.
Throath is 80% cone surface.
Then I simmed everything in hornresp and compared the results with things I builded before.
When everything looked promising I started building them.
They are supposed to be corner loaded.
They sound a lot better then the sims predict!!
Stil working on a deflector and a small fronthorn (NO supra baffle!!)
Will update as soon as possible (asap?? ; Im Dutch)
They measure 90x20x36cm.
1 i(nspired) b
R(on) 108 horn.Ron Clark did several designs, all of them "feel"good. But no specific
fe108ez design.
2 Did a lot of reading about the 108;
Vc between 1,5 and 2,5 Liter , in my design 2,78L , adjusted with styroporblock to 1,9 liter.Sounds the best in my room.
Line lenght 1,8 m and more , even some Japanese designs were 2,7 m.
my line is 2,2m.
Throath is 80% cone surface.
Then I simmed everything in hornresp and compared the results with things I builded before.
When everything looked promising I started building them.
They are supposed to be corner loaded.
They sound a lot better then the sims predict!!
Stil working on a deflector and a small fronthorn (NO supra baffle!!)
Will update as soon as possible (asap?? ; Im Dutch)
They measure 90x20x36cm.
Attachments
rjbond3rd : thank's for the compliment. I like to be productive.
The "spiral"design was something inbetween; Gemme audio do athing they call V-flex. As I understood this is a horn with a port at the mouth. So I wanted to know how audible an irregular CC was and at the same time how a port at the mouth sounded.
BTW MINE HAVE TWO PORTS, ONE AT THE RIGHT AND ONE AT TH LEFT SIDE (YOU CAN SEE STRAITH THROUG= FUNNY LOOKING)
My ears tell me that a triangular shape sounds better in the midrange.
I started with two small (5cm dia) holes and enlarged them until everything sounds best to my ears. Strangely that was when the two holes together were about half of the mouth size.(don't know how to explain exactly).
ibR 108 horn has better lows, But the "spiral-horn" made two women to cry when they played Susan Doyle.(not me)
ibR gives me goose skin at some cd's
Thank's to Scoot for his remark, I was unaware of Ron's effort.
Did Ron build reel proto's or did he only calculate/simmed?
I'm unaware of any compression : the kids had some cd's with them and they all agreed on a large "life-effect" (Muse-Resistance , Leonard Cohen-Life in London)
My room is 5.6x3.75x2.5 m. So not to big.
I don't listen to large orchestra's but more Norah Jones, Akoustic guitar Miles Davis and that kind of stuf.
The "spiral"design was something inbetween; Gemme audio do athing they call V-flex. As I understood this is a horn with a port at the mouth. So I wanted to know how audible an irregular CC was and at the same time how a port at the mouth sounded.
BTW MINE HAVE TWO PORTS, ONE AT THE RIGHT AND ONE AT TH LEFT SIDE (YOU CAN SEE STRAITH THROUG= FUNNY LOOKING)
My ears tell me that a triangular shape sounds better in the midrange.
I started with two small (5cm dia) holes and enlarged them until everything sounds best to my ears. Strangely that was when the two holes together were about half of the mouth size.(don't know how to explain exactly).
ibR 108 horn has better lows, But the "spiral-horn" made two women to cry when they played Susan Doyle.(not me)
ibR gives me goose skin at some cd's
Thank's to Scoot for his remark, I was unaware of Ron's effort.
Did Ron build reel proto's or did he only calculate/simmed?
I'm unaware of any compression : the kids had some cd's with them and they all agreed on a large "life-effect" (Muse-Resistance , Leonard Cohen-Life in London)
My room is 5.6x3.75x2.5 m. So not to big.
I don't listen to large orchestra's but more Norah Jones, Akoustic guitar Miles Davis and that kind of stuf.
Had a chance to see & hear a pair of these a while back - very pretty boxes, the sound was "OK" too - and even better with EnABLed drivers
To chrisb,
I found it a strange experience that the Gemme hole is that small.
If you have seen them in reel life ( I only saw pictures)
Have you seen anything like a pipe, or is there just a hole?
Mine sound best with 2x112cm diam. hole.
My "spiral-horn" is also for corner loading and the Vflex is freestanding, could that explain the difference??
I found it a strange experience that the Gemme hole is that small.
If you have seen them in reel life ( I only saw pictures)
Have you seen anything like a pipe, or is there just a hole?
Mine sound best with 2x112cm diam. hole.
My "spiral-horn" is also for corner loading and the Vflex is freestanding, could that explain the difference??
BTW I promised planet 10 the drawings as soon as I finished them for his site.
Assuming that Ron agrees and is not offended in any way.
For rjbond3rd an attachment: the concerti 108 clone.
Basicly it's like the fostex rec. design but we made it more smooth with halfround and triangular hardwood in the first narrow part of the horn.
Expecting to get more acceleration over there.
Scott once mentioned the function of the 90 degrees parts, so we left that intact in the last part of the horn.
The Vc is aprox. 2,7 L , fits the fe126e , and has to be adjusted to 1.8~1,9 L for the 108. I use the circular piece loudspeaker cut-out , and put it inside the Vc , with is about right and tweak the rest by ear.
They really sound dynamic on low level, but I never heard the reel Gemme's.
One remark: I try to get MY SOUND , witch means that I cannot garantie anyone else likes my designs!!
Assuming that Ron agrees and is not offended in any way.
For rjbond3rd an attachment: the concerti 108 clone.
Basicly it's like the fostex rec. design but we made it more smooth with halfround and triangular hardwood in the first narrow part of the horn.
Expecting to get more acceleration over there.
Scott once mentioned the function of the 90 degrees parts, so we left that intact in the last part of the horn.
The Vc is aprox. 2,7 L , fits the fe126e , and has to be adjusted to 1.8~1,9 L for the 108. I use the circular piece loudspeaker cut-out , and put it inside the Vc , with is about right and tweak the rest by ear.
They really sound dynamic on low level, but I never heard the reel Gemme's.
One remark: I try to get MY SOUND , witch means that I cannot garantie anyone else likes my designs!!
Don't worry, given that the Concerti is TTBOMK just the 108 smoothed out with continuous expansion, you're probably v. close. If anything, you may be better off, as completely smoothing out a horn designed to be a straight-manifiold style box is rarely a good plan.
Re mass-loaded horns; depends on the design & its objectives. For e.g., see the attached (just a generic horn). Top is the horn as-is, bottom is mass loaded by a small vent. They will sound very different of course; neither is better or worse than the other.
Re mass-loaded horns; depends on the design & its objectives. For e.g., see the attached (just a generic horn). Top is the horn as-is, bottom is mass loaded by a small vent. They will sound very different of course; neither is better or worse than the other.
Attachments
Last edited:
so far at least one pair each with intact and damaged dust-caps (the latter were removed and replaced with phase plugs), and more in queue awaiting time/demand
there has also been a pair of 168E-Sigmas
Other than a pair that came from Ed Horns with damaged dustcaps, one set of FE108eSeN have been done.
We demoed them in a client's Gemme VFlex, and he wouldn't give them back, so i have another pair to do (as well as another phase plugged ones)
dave
Somewhere i have a sketch of an estimate of what the insides look like. More of a end loaded, mass-loaded QW resonator (irregular taper but bigger near the terminus) with an internal restriction near the back.
dave
This design lends itself to the mouth opening being closed off by a K-slot like Bill Woods is doing. However experimentation is required since the amount of opening is apperently critical. (I don't have the equipment to measure).
AM
The drawing of the ibR 108 horn.
PDF in about a month or so( is alot more time consuming)
If you cannot cut 45 degrees, use the way I did with the "spiral-horn"
( look at picture earlier this threath)
: make 90 degrees cuts and use triangular pieces of hardwood and A LOT OF GLUE !!
Corners that are not 90 or 45 degrees : do it by hand , use a raw wood rasp , and leave the mdf "fluffy" so it can absorb the glue.
A contact surface of 6~8 mm is strong already.
We build 14 pair of the concerti 108 clone this way , in the last four years and they all survived.
If anyone is going to build them, and there are problems , then I will try to help as good as I can ( My English is not sufficient I think)
PDF in about a month or so( is alot more time consuming)
If you cannot cut 45 degrees, use the way I did with the "spiral-horn"
( look at picture earlier this threath)
: make 90 degrees cuts and use triangular pieces of hardwood and A LOT OF GLUE !!
Corners that are not 90 or 45 degrees : do it by hand , use a raw wood rasp , and leave the mdf "fluffy" so it can absorb the glue.
A contact surface of 6~8 mm is strong already.
We build 14 pair of the concerti 108 clone this way , in the last four years and they all survived.
If anyone is going to build them, and there are problems , then I will try to help as good as I can ( My English is not sufficient I think)
Attachments
Hi rjbond3rd,
I'm flattered, glad you like them.
Build a lot of speakers but this thingy is a piece of luck you sometimes have.
This is DIY audio, so I want to give something back to the community and do hope some people are going to enjoy them.
BTW , today I put the ibR 108 completly frestanding, lost some bass and tweaked a BSC (0,9mH and 3,9ohm) to compensate.
Imaging improved alot.
I put Diane Krall on and when I closed my eyes I had de feeling that I could walk around her. Very strange experience!!
My dauther passed by this afternoon and she heard nothing of the by Scott mentioned compression under normal listening conditions,
She called the presentation "effortless", with natural "easy" bass.
If you are the person of the site/signature you use ,I'm even more flattered??
I did send the drawings/plan to planet 10, and do hope for Ron,s approval.
I'm flattered, glad you like them.
Build a lot of speakers but this thingy is a piece of luck you sometimes have.
This is DIY audio, so I want to give something back to the community and do hope some people are going to enjoy them.
BTW , today I put the ibR 108 completly frestanding, lost some bass and tweaked a BSC (0,9mH and 3,9ohm) to compensate.
Imaging improved alot.
I put Diane Krall on and when I closed my eyes I had de feeling that I could walk around her. Very strange experience!!
My dauther passed by this afternoon and she heard nothing of the by Scott mentioned compression under normal listening conditions,
She called the presentation "effortless", with natural "easy" bass.
If you are the person of the site/signature you use ,I'm even more flattered??
I did send the drawings/plan to planet 10, and do hope for Ron,s approval.
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