Hi,
If you can't measure it, it can't be quantified, end of story.
If you can't quantify it, your talking absolute nonsense.
(Advanced listening tests can "measure" issues with no
known technical basis or simple analysis, but such tests
have to produce statistically significant qualative ratings).
Said tests done properly are horrendously expensive.
A "trained ear" or two is much more cost effective.
rgds, sreten.
If you can't measure it, it can't be quantified, end of story.
If you can't quantify it, your talking absolute nonsense.
(Advanced listening tests can "measure" issues with no
known technical basis or simple analysis, but such tests
have to produce statistically significant qualative ratings).
Said tests done properly are horrendously expensive.
A "trained ear" or two is much more cost effective.
rgds, sreten.
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I don't even know what you are trying to say here.
The human mind is a very, very flawed piece of equipment, there are ALL sorts of quirks, limitations and that is without even getting into the power of belief to influence perception.
Your mind lies to you ALL the time and memory is very easily manipulated.
The human mind is designed to recognize patterns and as a result, we see patterns where none exist. The classic example being clouds looking like something.
Or we can trust equipment capable of measuring things in far greater detail and accuracy than most people can comprehend, never mind perceive
Ah, so you are saying you have a magical ability to inerrantly determine the flaws of a speaker, based on nothing other than your own claims.
Have you ever done a double blind test to confirm this? Have you ever even had a hearing test?
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That should be the positive purpose of the web, to make a share...
and...
now you're talking nonsense
Interesting debate, but ultimately fruitless? Of course, many things can be measured. They either are, or are not, important 
At the end, of course, the most important (and fallible) judge is a pair of ears and the very complex, very not-to-be-trusted brain to which they are attached! Consider the absurd things people claim to be true, to believe in, in money/religion/politics. Do you think it would be any different with audio? Of course not. Even so, with some things, you can make objective (as possible) measurements as possible: the double blind test, ABX, etc. If listener(s) can hear a difference, beyond random chance, then there is a difference. And then, onward, to find out why! And sorry guys, this is not an acceptable argument: "Well, I have spent years and much money refining this design, so it must sound perfect!"
At the end, of course, the most important (and fallible) judge is a pair of ears and the very complex, very not-to-be-trusted brain to which they are attached! Consider the absurd things people claim to be true, to believe in, in money/religion/politics. Do you think it would be any different with audio? Of course not. Even so, with some things, you can make objective (as possible) measurements as possible: the double blind test, ABX, etc. If listener(s) can hear a difference, beyond random chance, then there is a difference. And then, onward, to find out why! And sorry guys, this is not an acceptable argument: "Well, I have spent years and much money refining this design, so it must sound perfect!"
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Interesting debate, but ultimately fruitless? Of course, many things can be measured. They either are, or are not, important
Yes, ultimately it is useless trying to argue facts, with people who believe what they do not based on any facts, just their own beliefs.
Formation=Arrangement of sound waves
I set up a system and listen to it for awhile and think about the characteristics in words.. My friend comes over and listens to the system and describes the sound with the same words.. Another friend comes over and states the same thing. My other friend brings over an integrated amp with 2 input switch, each having different brand of wires to the RCA's and asks which one do I like and why and I tell him and he had already determined which one he likes and why and it happens to be the same wire with same description.. None of this was talked about on the phone or in person.. Just 2 examples of many examples.
If this happens enough times(and it has) you can rule out power of belief and input perception.. That phenomenon would cause us to hear it differently..
I can look at a cloud and if the shape slightly resembles a donkey I can imagine a donkey..
If the bass guitar sound from my system in a particular recording slightly resembles the sound of a bass players sound I heard at a bar 2 years ago I'll think about that bass player..
I set up a system and listen to it for awhile and think about the characteristics in words.. My friend comes over and listens to the system and describes the sound with the same words.. Another friend comes over and states the same thing. My other friend brings over an integrated amp with 2 input switch, each having different brand of wires to the RCA's and asks which one do I like and why and I tell him and he had already determined which one he likes and why and it happens to be the same wire with same description.. None of this was talked about on the phone or in person.. Just 2 examples of many examples.
If this happens enough times(and it has) you can rule out power of belief and input perception.. That phenomenon would cause us to hear it differently..
I can look at a cloud and if the shape slightly resembles a donkey I can imagine a donkey..
If the bass guitar sound from my system in a particular recording slightly resembles the sound of a bass players sound I heard at a bar 2 years ago I'll think about that bass player..
I would wager that if the measurements he took were the right measurements and the tests were done accurately, then a stranger who had no idea that the diaphragms had been heated up would probably think they sounded just fine.
Don't fall into a trap of thinking something exists simply because you hear it.
Fine, I'll consider it but back to the original question..
Leaving out perception, think of a woofer responding to the music signal and then imagine todays measurements trying to determine what we should be hearing
Measurement is not the issue. Remember the movie Twister (We've got cows!)? They sent up all those little sensors into the tornado and gobs of data came back. Our problem isn't measurement, it's what to do with the huge amount of data that would come back. I'm thinking measurements in the recording area and the listening area in 3D. If you had complete information about the sound field around the source, and the same for the listening area, what would you do with it? There's no way a stereo system can recreate that original sound field in a different area.
In spite of that, I find the experience quite pleasant.
In spite of that, I find the experience quite pleasant.
Are you a non-native english speaker? Your phrasing and sentence structure are odd.
So you have a bunch of friends who almost certainly have similar tastes and beliefs and they have similar reactions to things.
How many friends do you have who tell you that non-defective cables and wires having an effect on your sound system is complete and utter nonsense?
There are lots of real world examples of millions of people holding beliefs that are not only complete nonsense, but are contradicted by essentially the entirety of science.
A couple of friends who hold similar beliefs and have similar options is evidence of nothing.
If you think cables or wire make a difference, you do not understand the first thing about how electricity functions or how electronics work.
Exactly. It's ALL in your mind.
Ones that are long enough to reach the speakers. I find that is the most important characteristic. When they are too short, it just doesn't work very well.
Sorry meant to answer this one, but forgot to.
No it doesn't.
This is precisely why double blind tests have blown your sort of magical beliefs out the window when they've been used.
What's causing the "differences" you think you are hearing is your mind.
Penn & Teller's TV show did an episode did an episode on "Water" and all of the fancy bottled waters. At one point they set a guy up as a "Water Steward" who had a list of "exotic" waters from various places around the globe with all sorts of differences listed, in a variety of different bottles and lables. You then saw the customers responding with all sorts of reactions to the "different" waters and liking x more than y or expounding on the differences.
Cut to the "Water Steward" filling up ALL of them from the same garden hose.
No it doesn't.
This is precisely why double blind tests have blown your sort of magical beliefs out the window when they've been used.
What's causing the "differences" you think you are hearing is your mind.
Penn & Teller's TV show did an episode did an episode on "Water" and all of the fancy bottled waters. At one point they set a guy up as a "Water Steward" who had a list of "exotic" waters from various places around the globe with all sorts of differences listed, in a variety of different bottles and lables. You then saw the customers responding with all sorts of reactions to the "different" waters and liking x more than y or expounding on the differences.
Cut to the "Water Steward" filling up ALL of them from the same garden hose.
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Hi,
What on earth are you trying to talk about ?
Poor questions never have a useful answer.
The performance of woofers is effectively entirely measurable.
There is nothing inherent in your assumptions or question.
rgds, sreten.
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Really? Wire can have no effect on current flow? Wires can't pick up noise? Wires can't have capacitance or inductance or resistance or triboelectric effects?
Guess I don't know the 1st, 2nd or 3rd things about electricity or electronics.
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