Re: Tarun the CNC Drill
I'll get the PCB drilling article in a day or two. The problem is that I never remember when I'm at home. And I just looked for the Titan articles, and discovered that I have all five parts with me on my laptop, in PDF form. (I got them as part of the Elektor Audio Collection).
Give me your email address, so that I can at least send you the Titan articles.
Tarun
peterpan73 said:
I'll get the PCB drilling article in a day or two. The problem is that I never remember when I'm at home. And I just looked for the Titan articles, and discovered that I have all five parts with me on my laptop, in PDF form. (I got them as part of the Elektor Audio Collection).
A few pages of photocopied material, sent by ordinary post, within India, shouldn't cost much. Don't bother about money transfer.
Give me your email address, so that I can at least send you the Titan articles.
Tarun
MX makes good stuff
I bought a pair of black plastic cups with gold plated banana sockets, which I'll mount on the speaker body. Each rectangular plastic cup has four banana sockets, and can be used for bi-amping/bi-wiring. There are also gold-plated shorting strips for times when you don't want to bi-wire. Each such plastic cup with all these fittings cost me Rs.125 from Champion Rubber Stores on L.Road.
The gold-plated panel-mount RCA sockets were Rs.50 a pair, and have isolating bushes. They fit on a 10mm cutout on the panel, and don't touch the metal of the panel. They are very well-made, I thought.
Tarun
MX has a range of gold-plated RCA sockets and banana sockets. The "normal" banana sockets are of the panel mount kind, and are nickel plated. I haven't yet seen any panel mount gold-plated banana sockets from them. But the ones which mount on a speaker body are available in gold-plated versions, with plastic cups. They look really sexy, and as far as I am concerned, they're as good as anything I might want for my purposes. However, if you can hear the differences between different qualities of RCA sockets and banana sockets, you'll have to take your call about whether they're good enough for you.gjo said:
I bought a pair of black plastic cups with gold plated banana sockets, which I'll mount on the speaker body. Each rectangular plastic cup has four banana sockets, and can be used for bi-amping/bi-wiring. There are also gold-plated shorting strips for times when you don't want to bi-wire. Each such plastic cup with all these fittings cost me Rs.125 from Champion Rubber Stores on L.Road.
The gold-plated panel-mount RCA sockets were Rs.50 a pair, and have isolating bushes. They fit on a 10mm cutout on the panel, and don't touch the metal of the panel. They are very well-made, I thought.
Tarun
Re: PCB making: bad news: films needed
I checked with Mr. V. Subramaniam of Balaji Hertz Industries (yes, that's really the name of his company) about eliminating the film-making stage and going straight to the PCB making stage with laser-printed Garware sheets. He said that wouldn't do. He said the laser printer output is not sharp enough, and also the PCB making process involves washing the film with some chemicals, which will remove the laser-printer ink if used on laser-printed stuff. So, guys, it seems that if you want high-quality PCBs made, you'll have to invest in getting the films made.
Tarun
tcpip said:
I checked with Mr. V. Subramaniam of Balaji Hertz Industries (yes, that's really the name of his company) about eliminating the film-making stage and going straight to the PCB making stage with laser-printed Garware sheets. He said that wouldn't do. He said the laser printer output is not sharp enough, and also the PCB making process involves washing the film with some chemicals, which will remove the laser-printer ink if used on laser-printed stuff. So, guys, it seems that if you want high-quality PCBs made, you'll have to invest in getting the films made.
Tarun
Here is the address:tcpip said:
Dinrack Modular Systems Pvt Ltd
Attn: Vishwas Deshpande
19/2, Rocky Industrial Estate
I. B. Patel Road, Goregaon East,
Mumbai 400063, India
phone: +91 22 5699 8572/73/74
fax: +91 22 5699 8571
email: dinrack@vsnl.com
Hope this helps. Let us know what you're looking for and how it goes.... just curious.
Tarun
My email
Tarun,
Thanks for the trouble, my email ID is patrick_pugh2000@yahoo.com.
Thankyou so very much again and again!!
Patrick
Tarun,
Thanks for the trouble, my email ID is patrick_pugh2000@yahoo.com.
Thankyou so very much again and again!!
Patrick
MX
Tarun
Thanks for the input. AAMOF, I used two RCA chassis mount connectors today for my Grounded Grid preamp which is almost done. The output was a single set whereas I needed an extra set for my sub. The MX looks good in comparison to the importe stuff and at $1 a pair versus $15 a pair quoted by the US mfr, as far as I'm concerned it's a no brainer! I wanted to know if these MX guys have other items for future projects as well as a couple of mods that I want to make on ongoing ones.
In answer to your question-no I cant make out sonic differences all that easily-BUT I have fairly good quality connectors on all my gear so far, which is why I considered Cardas.
George
Tarun
Thanks for the input. AAMOF, I used two RCA chassis mount connectors today for my Grounded Grid preamp which is almost done. The output was a single set whereas I needed an extra set for my sub. The MX looks good in comparison to the importe stuff and at $1 a pair versus $15 a pair quoted by the US mfr, as far as I'm concerned it's a no brainer! I wanted to know if these MX guys have other items for future projects as well as a couple of mods that I want to make on ongoing ones.
In answer to your question-no I cant make out sonic differences all that easily-BUT I have fairly good quality connectors on all my gear so far, which is why I considered Cardas.
George
Re: MX
Tarun
People who buy Cardas will usually not be happy with MX, simply because of the differences in brand value. If you want to compare MX stuff with something in the US, compare them with the better-quality stuff among the items partsexpress.com sells. Good, value-for-money stuff without the brand association. Personally, I don't know why I should buy Cardas, so I'm happy with MX. Think about it.gjo said:
Tarun
Re: OK 2.7KB is opened
And I hope you have 33% extra space, not just 2.7MB. (The file I'll send is 2.7MB; when it's encoded using base64 encoding to attach to an email, it grows 33% in size.) And could we take this dialogue off-thread? I'd really like to see this thread just focusing on sources of parts/services for Indian DIYers. I must warn you though... I check my email less than once a day.
Oh, BTW, I have just been informed, in another window, that I cannot send you Part 2, because it exceeds 3MB (after base64 encoding, of course). That's a restriction on the sender in Yahoo, it appears. I then tried Part 3; that failed too, because it too was about the same size. So, irrespective of the amount of space in your mailbox, I can't send you these two files. I can try through some other email account, but you'll have to give me some other recipient email address first. This file-by-file handshaking between you and me is getting a little tiresome. Do you have some email address which can accept, say 10MB of mail in one shot? Please reply to this by email. I can then send out Parts 2 and 3 in one go.
Tarun
I hope it's MB, not KB.peterpan73 said:
And I hope you have 33% extra space, not just 2.7MB. (The file I'll send is 2.7MB; when it's encoded using base64 encoding to attach to an email, it grows 33% in size.) And could we take this dialogue off-thread? I'd really like to see this thread just focusing on sources of parts/services for Indian DIYers. I must warn you though... I check my email less than once a day.Oh, BTW, I have just been informed, in another window, that I cannot send you Part 2, because it exceeds 3MB (after base64 encoding, of course). That's a restriction on the sender in Yahoo, it appears. I then tried Part 3; that failed too, because it too was about the same size. So, irrespective of the amount of space in your mailbox, I can't send you these two files. I can try through some other email account, but you'll have to give me some other recipient email address first. This file-by-file handshaking between you and me is getting a little tiresome. Do you have some email address which can accept, say 10MB of mail in one shot? Please reply to this by email. I can then send out Parts 2 and 3 in one go.
Tarun
Neutrik RCA plugs
Angshu used to keep saying that Neutrik RCA plugs are available in Delhi; I never saw them in L.Road. On my last visit, I saw a couple of shops have begun keeping them. They have two types: nickel-plated and gold-plated, for Rs.40 and Rs.45 each respectively. They seem to be similar to these ones selling on PartsExpress, though they may vary in superficial detail. One interesting thing I saw was that the gold plating was only for the relevant area, i.e. the contacts. The body was still nickel-plated. So much less audiophile attraction value. Sigh...
Till now, the best RCA plugs I've seen on L.Road are the ones labelled "Monster", with heavy brass construction, costing Rs.75 each at Champion Rubber Stores.
And the MX panel-mount RCA sockets I've bought seem to be very similar to these selling on PartsExpress (#091-1120). My MX ones were Rs.50 a pair. Note how these have white isolating washers to isolate the metal from the panel body, just like the ones I bought. The panel-mount banana-plug sockets I bought were exact copies to these (PartsExpress #091-1160) except that mine were not gold-plated. I think I bought mine for Rs.15 each (not pair)?
Tarun
Angshu used to keep saying that Neutrik RCA plugs are available in Delhi; I never saw them in L.Road. On my last visit, I saw a couple of shops have begun keeping them. They have two types: nickel-plated and gold-plated, for Rs.40 and Rs.45 each respectively. They seem to be similar to these ones selling on PartsExpress, though they may vary in superficial detail. One interesting thing I saw was that the gold plating was only for the relevant area, i.e. the contacts. The body was still nickel-plated. So much less audiophile attraction value. Sigh...
Till now, the best RCA plugs I've seen on L.Road are the ones labelled "Monster", with heavy brass construction, costing Rs.75 each at Champion Rubber Stores.
And the MX panel-mount RCA sockets I've bought seem to be very similar to these selling on PartsExpress (#091-1120). My MX ones were Rs.50 a pair. Note how these have white isolating washers to isolate the metal from the panel body, just like the ones I bought. The panel-mount banana-plug sockets I bought were exact copies to these (PartsExpress #091-1160) except that mine were not gold-plated. I think I bought mine for Rs.15 each (not pair)?
Tarun
Re: Cheaper than MX.
I believe these Neutrik things are also stocked at Champion Rubber Stores. And since they've now "hit the market", I guess they'll be available elsewhere too; just walk around and ask.
However, if you are just a hobbyist, will saving Rs.10 per connector be worth the trouble, specially for small quantities? I will be willing to pay Rs.10 extra myself if someone can help me avoid a trip to L.Road and deliver them to my home or office. Honest! I find going to L.Road exhausting, and also expensive (in terms of time and cab fare), and totally an irritant when the value of what I'm picking up is perhaps Rs.100 or 200.
Tarun
I saw them first in a shop whose name I don't know, which sells cables, on the main L.Road itself. This shop is on the ground floor of the building which has Visha on the first floor, opposite the L.Road Police Station. This shop sells primarily cables of all kinds, and has lots of cable samples displayed.ashok said:
I believe these Neutrik things are also stocked at Champion Rubber Stores. And since they've now "hit the market", I guess they'll be available elsewhere too; just walk around and ask.
However, if you are just a hobbyist, will saving Rs.10 per connector be worth the trouble, specially for small quantities? I will be willing to pay Rs.10 extra myself if someone can help me avoid a trip to L.Road and deliver them to my home or office. Honest!
I find going to L.Road exhausting, and also expensive (in terms of time and cab fare), and totally an irritant when the value of what I'm picking up is perhaps Rs.100 or 200.Tarun
About Titan 2000 PCBs
Hello Tarun..
.Yes its 2.7 MB not KB sorry. now there's even more free space as I've deleted most of my obsolete mails.. its around 75% of 6MB free.Hey thanx there for the 1 and 5th part ... Well I don't know if these other accounts of mine are working. They are peterpan73@mickeyevents.com and patsham@sddigiconsolutions.com. Please tell me how i can retrieve mails from these accounts when u have the time as I really don't know how to use them as the user ineterface looks weird and doesn't seem to take in my poassword and username. Which also reminds me to ask you... about something that I nearly forgot... about making a website. See I bought this domain name www.mickeyevents.com for myself from Webcom new Delhi, last year and I haven't even used it.. I don't even know how to load a page from an FTP... if you can at least put a 'Page under construction' notice on the site I would be happy. How can I use it with frontpage? I tried once but failed.
Anyway I would also like to tell you that I would be interested in the Titan2000 PCBs if you can have them etched and screen printed for me with solder masking components placement etc.. I guess the articles with you on the topic should suffice although I understand that things would have been simpler and less expensive if I were to prepare the Gerber files. I don't need the PCBs now though but it won't be long before I will be looking for them... so I would like some kind of rough figure to see how I can make it work within my budget.
Please do reply.
Patrick
Hello Tarun..
.Yes its 2.7 MB not KB sorry. now there's even more free space as I've deleted most of my obsolete mails.. its around 75% of 6MB free.Hey thanx there for the 1 and 5th part ... Well I don't know if these other accounts of mine are working. They are peterpan73@mickeyevents.com and patsham@sddigiconsolutions.com. Please tell me how i can retrieve mails from these accounts when u have the time as I really don't know how to use them as the user ineterface looks weird and doesn't seem to take in my poassword and username. Which also reminds me to ask you... about something that I nearly forgot... about making a website. See I bought this domain name www.mickeyevents.com for myself from Webcom new Delhi, last year and I haven't even used it.. I don't even know how to load a page from an FTP... if you can at least put a 'Page under construction' notice on the site I would be happy. How can I use it with frontpage? I tried once but failed.
Anyway I would also like to tell you that I would be interested in the Titan2000 PCBs if you can have them etched and screen printed for me with solder masking components placement etc.. I guess the articles with you on the topic should suffice although I understand that things would have been simpler and less expensive if I were to prepare the Gerber files. I don't need the PCBs now though but it won't be long before I will be looking for them... so I would like some kind of rough figure to see how I can make it work within my budget.
Please do reply.
Patrick
Re: About Titan 2000 PCBs
Could we take this off-thread, please? Maybe do it by email?
However once you check them out and tell me they're working, I'll be happy to email the parts 2 and 3 to any address you specify.
And could we take further discussions about your Website off-thread please?
The PCB making shop I am currently talking to will need CNC drilling data to make double-sided PCBs... they don't do this by naked eye, they told me. And since the Titan2000 main amp PCB is double-sided PTH, they can't make it unless you give them the CNC drilling data somehow. I therefore suggest that if you want to build the amp badly enough, contact Elektor UK and import a set of PCBs from them. You'll also have to spend a lot of time hunting for precisely the right footprint transformers and relays, all of which sit on PCBs in this project. It's easy to find relays/transfies which match the needed specs, but matching both the specs and the footprint is not easy, I believe, unless you pick up the precise same part number from the same manufacturer. If you want to import a full kit of parts for any Elektor project, or just a subset of parts, you can do so from www.dil-dos.com; they are fully aware of all past Elektor projects and all they need from you will be the reference number that Elektor prints on each PCB. You give them this number; they'll look up the full set of parts and give you a quote by email. They'll be willing to bill your credit card in Euros and ship all parts to India too.
And can we move all subsequent discussion about the Titan2000 off-thread, please? I'd really like to keep this thread focused on component availability for Indian DIYers, if that's okay with all of you.
Tarun
Could we take this off-thread, please? Maybe do it by email?
I suppose you got parts 1, 4 and 5, right? Not just 1 and 5.peterpan73 said:
I'm not sure I'll get around to helping you with your email accounts... "Too much work, too little time." Usual excuse.
However once you check them out and tell me they're working, I'll be happy to email the parts 2 and 3 to any address you specify.Buy any beginner's book on "learning HTML" and start. There are about a million books on the subject. Or else, try playing around with Netscape Composer; it's a GUI HTML editor. To use it, first get the latest version of Netscape Communicator (v7.0 or v7.1 perhaps?) from www.netscape.com, and use their Composer facility to create HTML pages. Thousands of half-literate people with one-hundredth of your intelligence are doing it all the time; I'm sure you'll find it trivial.
And could we take further discussions about your Website off-thread please?
If you look carefully at any PCB published in any issue of Elektor, you will see that solder masking or silk-screen legend printing are both impossible from the printed information they provide. The only thing you can get is the track layout. (If it's a double-sided board, then you'll get both track surfaces, but that's all.) They never provide a separate image of just the component placement image, or the solder mask. And these can't just be inferred or derived from the other images unless the hobbyist is willing to put in many hours of manual work using a paint program. Hence, if you make PCBs at all from an Elektor article, you'll get a PCB with just the tracks, and no solder mask and no legend printing.
The PCB making shop I am currently talking to will need CNC drilling data to make double-sided PCBs... they don't do this by naked eye, they told me. And since the Titan2000 main amp PCB is double-sided PTH, they can't make it unless you give them the CNC drilling data somehow. I therefore suggest that if you want to build the amp badly enough, contact Elektor UK and import a set of PCBs from them. You'll also have to spend a lot of time hunting for precisely the right footprint transformers and relays, all of which sit on PCBs in this project. It's easy to find relays/transfies which match the needed specs, but matching both the specs and the footprint is not easy, I believe, unless you pick up the precise same part number from the same manufacturer. If you want to import a full kit of parts for any Elektor project, or just a subset of parts, you can do so from www.dil-dos.com; they are fully aware of all past Elektor projects and all they need from you will be the reference number that Elektor prints on each PCB. You give them this number; they'll look up the full set of parts and give you a quote by email. They'll be willing to bill your credit card in Euros and ship all parts to India too.
And can we move all subsequent discussion about the Titan2000 off-thread, please? I'd really like to keep this thread focused on component availability for Indian DIYers, if that's okay with all of you.
Tarun
High quality components from RS India
A DIY friend of mine contacted RS Components (www.rsindia.com) and asked them for a quote for certain prices. We were very impressed with the kind of items they have, and with the breadth of their Website. Their Website (which is a layer on top of the int'l RS components Website) has huge amounts of technical information; that's the good part about being an MNC's India arm, I guess. No Indian reseller has anything like this depth on ther Website in this industry sector, I suspect. However, the RS Website has no prices. You have to ask them.
We found out the following basic details about RS India:
Some other thread somewhere on this Website was discussing good quality pots, and many of the members there said good things about the Vishay/Sfernice PA11 and P11 range of pots. These pots are available from RS India. The PA11 conductive plastic pot is almost Rs.1800 each, for a dual-ganged audio taper pot. The Farnell UK price (order code 3068365) for the same item is UKP 14 or so. So, the markup for importing, logistics and customs for RS India seems very reasonable. Alps pots, ordinary carbon, low wattage, dual-ganged, are Rs.322 each.
Excellent quality toggle switches have prices varying between Rs.250 to Rs.700 or so. And I found an Epox-Rifa metallised polypropylene cap, 4.7uF, 250VDC, for Rs.150 or so. This sort of cap is almost impossible to get in India, in small quantities. Ordinary polyester caps, 10uF, 160V, cost me Rs.160 on L.Road. Metallised will be costlier. (I have another problem dealing with L.Road sellers for this item... they don't know the difference between polyster, polypropylene, and metallised polypropylene.) And people generally seem to agree that barring the exotic name brand caps (e.g. Black Gate and Hovland, etc) a metallised polyprop cap is the best type for putting in the signal path. I also found X- and Y- rated caps, meant for putting across the live and neutral terminals of the mains supply, for noise suppression. A 0.1uF cap (typical value for this application) was Rs.160 or so. Just try looking for an X-rated cap on L.Road; the shopkeeper will think you're looking for titillation.
All these prices are inclusive of all duties and taxes and shipping to an address in Mumbai.
What I didn't find here was a DIY orientation. There were no speaker drivers, no banana sockets that I could see, no speaker cable, in general, no particular audio equipment focus in any section. I guess their customers are into general industrial electronics, not audio.
I think you guys should check out the site. I know the stuff is expensive, but if for some project you want to go for good-quality components, then at least you have an option without having to resort to begging NRI friends to act as couriers.
Tarun
A DIY friend of mine contacted RS Components (www.rsindia.com) and asked them for a quote for certain prices. We were very impressed with the kind of items they have, and with the breadth of their Website. Their Website (which is a layer on top of the int'l RS components Website) has huge amounts of technical information; that's the good part about being an MNC's India arm, I guess. No Indian reseller has anything like this depth on ther Website in this industry sector, I suspect. However, the RS Website has no prices. You have to ask them.
We found out the following basic details about RS India:
- They sell only to companies. (This is no big deal; any of you can position yourself as a sole-proprietorship firm. You don't need to even have a bank account of that firm's name to deal with RS Components... they take payment by DD, not cheque. And for Income Tax purposes, a sole proprietorship firm is indistinguishable from its proprietor, and there are zero legalities or registrations or permissions involved.)
- They deal in small quantities. Most items, even items costing Rs.40 and 50, are available in ones and twos. I saw only caps and resistors having minimum order quantities above 1, and that too, at 5 or 10.
- They deliver anywhere in India where couriers go. And the courier chap accepts a DD drawn on a Delhi bank, before he hands over the packet to you. Therefore, you must place an order beforehand, get the exact total price, make a DD, and keep it ready.
- They work well over email and faxes. You don't have to visit them.
- RS India deals only with imported items. None of them are sourced from India.
- Their delivery times are quite small considering they import everything. Typical times are 3 weeks.
- If you have the money, they have spectacular stuff, e.g. Alps motorised potentiometers, Vishay/Sfernice cermet and conductive plastic pots, classy switches with silver and gold plated contacts, rack-mountable chassis, and what have you.
- Their prices vary between expensive to spectacularly expensive. However, many items are available for a rupee amount close to their dollar prices. And imagine the relief of (i) getting genuine items, and (ii) getting them delivered, without shipping and customs hassles.
Some other thread somewhere on this Website was discussing good quality pots, and many of the members there said good things about the Vishay/Sfernice PA11 and P11 range of pots. These pots are available from RS India. The PA11 conductive plastic pot is almost Rs.1800 each, for a dual-ganged audio taper pot. The Farnell UK price (order code 3068365) for the same item is UKP 14 or so. So, the markup for importing, logistics and customs for RS India seems very reasonable. Alps pots, ordinary carbon, low wattage, dual-ganged, are Rs.322 each.
Excellent quality toggle switches have prices varying between Rs.250 to Rs.700 or so. And I found an Epox-Rifa metallised polypropylene cap, 4.7uF, 250VDC, for Rs.150 or so. This sort of cap is almost impossible to get in India, in small quantities. Ordinary polyester caps, 10uF, 160V, cost me Rs.160 on L.Road. Metallised will be costlier. (I have another problem dealing with L.Road sellers for this item... they don't know the difference between polyster, polypropylene, and metallised polypropylene.) And people generally seem to agree that barring the exotic name brand caps (e.g. Black Gate and Hovland, etc) a metallised polyprop cap is the best type for putting in the signal path. I also found X- and Y- rated caps, meant for putting across the live and neutral terminals of the mains supply, for noise suppression. A 0.1uF cap (typical value for this application) was Rs.160 or so. Just try looking for an X-rated cap on L.Road; the shopkeeper will think you're looking for titillation.
All these prices are inclusive of all duties and taxes and shipping to an address in Mumbai.
What I didn't find here was a DIY orientation. There were no speaker drivers, no banana sockets that I could see, no speaker cable, in general, no particular audio equipment focus in any section. I guess their customers are into general industrial electronics, not audio.
I think you guys should check out the site. I know the stuff is expensive, but if for some project you want to go for good-quality components, then at least you have an option without having to resort to begging NRI friends to act as couriers.
Tarun
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