After some listening and experimenting with my Trifield implementation I can definitely announce that my results are ....... inconclusive.
Three JBL Control Now across the front was definitely inferior to the JBLs as L/R and a ProAc Tablette as the center.
However, that setup in turn was inferior to a setup using the Fountek FR88EXs across the front. In this case I crossed at ~150 to the Tablettes (maybe the only time ever that a Tablette was used as a 'sub'
).
I'm actually quite pleased with this current config - the Tablettes are at a conventional 60-degree location with no Trifield processing applied, and the FR88's are at -45/0/45. The soundstage isn't as huge as with the ambio setup, but it's very good and well defined.
Lots of listening/tuning/experimenting yet to do, but for the first time in a long while I think I may have more answers than questions in terms of my overall system direction.
Three JBL Control Now across the front was definitely inferior to the JBLs as L/R and a ProAc Tablette as the center.
However, that setup in turn was inferior to a setup using the Fountek FR88EXs across the front. In this case I crossed at ~150 to the Tablettes (maybe the only time ever that a Tablette was used as a 'sub'
).I'm actually quite pleased with this current config - the Tablettes are at a conventional 60-degree location with no Trifield processing applied, and the FR88's are at -45/0/45. The soundstage isn't as huge as with the ambio setup, but it's very good and well defined.
Lots of listening/tuning/experimenting yet to do, but for the first time in a long while I think I may have more answers than questions in terms of my overall system direction.
One thought on the question of 3-identical vs better-center. I do find myself wondering whether the results would be different in the type of Trifield setup I'm using than in a home-theater type setup. In the trifield setup any sound is always going to in C and at least 1 other speaker, and so there is always some blending going on. Conversely in a fully-discrete HT setup you can have sounds that jump from L to C then to R etc, and so differences in tonality may be much more obvious.
Very interesting. I've had perhaps a dozen variants of closed- and open-baffle CC speakers over the years, and my requirements for centerchannel information have evolved considerably.
I now believe that multichannel music* has different centerchannel requirements than movies. My multichannel system is built around the best-sounding 2-channel system I've ever had.
Its centerfocus is excellent in 2- or multichannel. The CC level is very easy to set with my conrad-johnson MET1, and generally I set it rather low with music. For movies/TV, I turn it up 10 - 15dB, because hearing and understanding the dialog that exists generally ONLY in the CC becomes paramount. After I bought the Audio Physic Avanti IIIs this year, I continued to improve many aspects of my system, and I bought a used VonSchweikert Visiun CC speaker--that retails for $5500 new...GASP!!!!!!!!!! After listening to that for months and finally adding a third-octave equalizer to that channel to improve its voice intelligibility, I removed it to stain some wood and did without a CC for a day. After redefining the speakers in my discplayer, doing without a CC was NO problem with music, but not being able to raise the level of the dialog was quite a problem with movies.
So back into the system went an old Eminent Technology LFT-12 to which I had previously added some baffles to fill its lower-MR/upperbass region.
I removed all the baffles and placed it atop a small speaker below my screen. WOW was this great sounding on voices--it was simply articulate. It now rests on a stand that's in process...
I still run its level rather low for music and lots higher for movies. It's not even close to being matched tonally with the Avantis, but I don't want it to be.
So three matched speakers across the front? Not for this tin-eared audiofool/videot!
* The sort I listen to is large-scale Classical, with only rear-of-the-hall ambience in the surrounds.
I now believe that multichannel music* has different centerchannel requirements than movies. My multichannel system is built around the best-sounding 2-channel system I've ever had.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Its centerfocus is excellent in 2- or multichannel. The CC level is very easy to set with my conrad-johnson MET1, and generally I set it rather low with music. For movies/TV, I turn it up 10 - 15dB, because hearing and understanding the dialog that exists generally ONLY in the CC becomes paramount. After I bought the Audio Physic Avanti IIIs this year, I continued to improve many aspects of my system, and I bought a used VonSchweikert Visiun CC speaker--that retails for $5500 new...GASP!!!!!!!!!! After listening to that for months and finally adding a third-octave equalizer to that channel to improve its voice intelligibility, I removed it to stain some wood and did without a CC for a day. After redefining the speakers in my discplayer, doing without a CC was NO problem with music, but not being able to raise the level of the dialog was quite a problem with movies.
So back into the system went an old Eminent Technology LFT-12 to which I had previously added some baffles to fill its lower-MR/upperbass region.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I removed all the baffles and placed it atop a small speaker below my screen. WOW was this great sounding on voices--it was simply articulate. It now rests on a stand that's in process...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I still run its level rather low for music and lots higher for movies. It's not even close to being matched tonally with the Avantis, but I don't want it to be.
So three matched speakers across the front? Not for this tin-eared audiofool/videot!
* The sort I listen to is large-scale Classical, with only rear-of-the-hall ambience in the surrounds.
JBehr -
I've been reading ( ?? Studying ) this whole thread.
Much info here that appeals to many different thought processes.
How different media is recorded isn't brought up here much and all I've read elsewhere leads to argument.
I am hard of hearing but those who watch/listen with me all agree that you near to constantly have to be playing with the volume on your remote when it comes to dialogue. You either can't hear or are blasted out of your chair 2 seconds later.
Much of this is way over my head but I find it interesting that solutions mentioned include using 2 separate CC's
which is where I was contemplating going, a FR Mono and now your idea which is basically OB and not timbre matched all result in the same thing which is what we all went... articulate high SQ dialogue.
I'm now leaning where you're at but wondering how this idea effects Musical Soundtracks or a Vocals on DVD concert's.
I'm seeing non timbre matched vocals as likely a simple solution to dialogue problems but every where I read someone has a different 'truth' to how concerts are recorded as to being 2.1 or 5.1.
If they are in fact 2.1 I see your idea as workable. If 5.1 I think balancing vocals to instrumentation likely a problem. 'Live' Concerts then likely hard to EQ.
I've got some real nice drivers that were designed for sound reinforcement that have outstanding mids and a high Qts that I've experimented with as FR OB's but too much work to get highs beyond 12 or cross to subs on the low end.
Thanks for contribution.
I've been reading ( ?? Studying ) this whole thread.
Much info here that appeals to many different thought processes.
How different media is recorded isn't brought up here much and all I've read elsewhere leads to argument.
I am hard of hearing but those who watch/listen with me all agree that you near to constantly have to be playing with the volume on your remote when it comes to dialogue. You either can't hear or are blasted out of your chair 2 seconds later.
Much of this is way over my head but I find it interesting that solutions mentioned include using 2 separate CC's
which is where I was contemplating going, a FR Mono and now your idea which is basically OB and not timbre matched all result in the same thing which is what we all went... articulate high SQ dialogue.
I'm now leaning where you're at but wondering how this idea effects Musical Soundtracks or a Vocals on DVD concert's.
I'm seeing non timbre matched vocals as likely a simple solution to dialogue problems but every where I read someone has a different 'truth' to how concerts are recorded as to being 2.1 or 5.1.
If they are in fact 2.1 I see your idea as workable. If 5.1 I think balancing vocals to instrumentation likely a problem. 'Live' Concerts then likely hard to EQ.
I've got some real nice drivers that were designed for sound reinforcement that have outstanding mids and a high Qts that I've experimented with as FR OB's but too much work to get highs beyond 12 or cross to subs on the low end.
Thanks for contribution.
I've used two cc's for years, in a L R configuration. I use a processor with a mic to tube the 5.1 with the room and I love the sound. It's awesome for dialogue, the sound for music isnt great with 5.1 and I prefer the sound of two or 2.1 to be superior. Over time I added a dedicated 2.1 music system and completely separated my ht system which in my opinion offered the best solution.
Considering upgrading the 2.1 with a troels dtqwt setup for music.
Considering upgrading the 2.1 with a troels dtqwt setup for music.
I have not read whole thread, I appologize, just want to point out to this center chanel speakers build
Center Speaker
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Center Speaker
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