If any of you were around in 1960, what kind of HiFi system would you all have put together? Some of you on this forum probably did. Assume a typical suburban middle class income and budget, you were an avid electronics hobbyist, and worked a 9-5 job. Most probably would have went to a department store and bought one of those console systems, even though component systems were relatively popular compared to today.
For me it is difficult for me to envision given technology available today vs. back then.
- Would you use tape, vinyl, or both? What type of turntable?
- Stereo or mono?
- What kind of speakers?
- Kit or scratch designs?
- Amplifier power?
- Would you design for sound or power?
Most importantly, what would the mentality of HiFi design back then be compared to today? This question will be more difficult to answer than most think.
For me it is difficult for me to envision given technology available today vs. back then.
- Would you use tape, vinyl, or both? What type of turntable?
- Stereo or mono?
- What kind of speakers?
- Kit or scratch designs?
- Amplifier power?
- Would you design for sound or power?
Most importantly, what would the mentality of HiFi design back then be compared to today? This question will be more difficult to answer than most think.
Almost everything in my current system was available by 1960, including me, but I was a very little kid..
The big problem would be my electronics which has a large number of transformers in the audio path, uses a lot of Russian and German high transconductance triodes and pentodes, not to mention GM70 and 26 DHTs none of which would have been available.. Not sure what I would have done. Given the fact that I am a maker I can't imagine I would not have gone down that path, whether I would have made what I have now is another question.
Most speaker systems designed in that time frame were bulky and efficient, AR was just getting going and it was the acoustic suspension design that gave people good bass in a small box at the penalty of requiring much more power. I would have designed for the best possible sound, and would probably have chosen an off the shelf JBL speaker system which would have been very efficient.
I imagine given relatively few technological distractions then existing I would have invested the money required to do it.
None of our neighbors had department store stereos, HH Scott Amps, Garrard turntables, JBL speaker systems were not uncommon, and there was a diy hifi shop in the square a quarter mile from my house. Too bad it had closed by the time I was old enough to be interested.. lol
There was no high end in those days, and most commercial hifi was rationally engineered. Even then though if you look at the glossy brochures there was a pretty strong emphasis on marketing. The good stuff was extremely expensive - easily priced into the sort of range we see with high end gear these days. Plenty of cheap dreck in the department stores. The often disreputable hifi chain stores were a little while in the future.
- Thorens TD-124 x 2
- SME 3009, 3012 (Series I instead of my Series II)
- Ortofon 12" transcription arm instead of the Schick
- Ortofon SPU
- JBL horns on mids and highs
- Jensen Ultraflex bass cabinets with Altec 515 instead of Iconic 165
- Maybe a ReVox G36 a few years later (gave my MKIII away last year)
- FM stereo tuner sometime after 1961..
The big problem would be my electronics which has a large number of transformers in the audio path, uses a lot of Russian and German high transconductance triodes and pentodes, not to mention GM70 and 26 DHTs none of which would have been available.. Not sure what I would have done. Given the fact that I am a maker I can't imagine I would not have gone down that path, whether I would have made what I have now is another question.
Most speaker systems designed in that time frame were bulky and efficient, AR was just getting going and it was the acoustic suspension design that gave people good bass in a small box at the penalty of requiring much more power. I would have designed for the best possible sound, and would probably have chosen an off the shelf JBL speaker system which would have been very efficient.
I imagine given relatively few technological distractions then existing I would have invested the money required to do it.
None of our neighbors had department store stereos, HH Scott Amps, Garrard turntables, JBL speaker systems were not uncommon, and there was a diy hifi shop in the square a quarter mile from my house. Too bad it had closed by the time I was old enough to be interested.. lol
There was no high end in those days, and most commercial hifi was rationally engineered. Even then though if you look at the glossy brochures there was a pretty strong emphasis on marketing. The good stuff was extremely expensive - easily priced into the sort of range we see with high end gear these days. Plenty of cheap dreck in the department stores. The often disreputable hifi chain stores were a little while in the future.
I was not around at the time but dad had a console (still do)
I would have put a MM turntable in as well as better output iron and possibly a better tweeter.
The stock turntable had a synchronous 60 hz ac motor and a ceramic! cartridge.
in 1960 I suspect the turntable would have cost a fortune & the transformers lots too.
But again if I was there I would have thought solid state was the coolest thing around.
I would have put a MM turntable in as well as better output iron and possibly a better tweeter.
The stock turntable had a synchronous 60 hz ac motor and a ceramic! cartridge.
in 1960 I suspect the turntable would have cost a fortune & the transformers lots too.
But again if I was there I would have thought solid state was the coolest thing around.
One of my earliest hi-fi systems was back around 1958 as I started high school. It was mono of course and consisted of a home made wooden speaker cabinet that housed a 12 inch Utah speaker and a small 4 in tweeter with one "condenser" to block lows to it. A Philco wooden radio and a small phonograph were feed to this speaker that I thought produced much better sound than the self contained speakers.
By 1960 I had a Grommes "Little Jewel" 10 watt mono amplifier that I built from a kit that my parents bought me for a birthday present. To go with that was a Lafayette Radio turntable with a Lafayette Radio viscous-dampened arm that resembled the big "Gray" arm that was so popular back then. This held a GE magnetic cartridge.
All through high school I took two periods of wood shop back to back each year. There I built various speaker and equipment cabinets out of solid red oak. Then a pair of plywood cabinets that became a slightly smaller version of the Altec A7 "voice of the theater" with the horns inside rather then on top.
Also, now I wanted more power and so cloned a pair of Heatkit W6M 70 watt ampifiers with custom wound output transformers that a friend's father supplied. He was VP of Executone in Long Island and got them made as experimental samples through the company.
Being 18-19 with a car in 1961 I was able to drive into New York City and shop downtown in "Radio Row" before the World Trade towers were built. I acquired a good used Marantz 7 preamp and a Thorens TD124 turntable with a Rek-O-Kut arm and Shure cartridge. These lasted and satisfied me for several years.
I was also a tape machine enthusiast and got a Heathkit as a present. It was actually a copy of a Viking deck. But I had a lot of fun with that toy until I had the chance to visit a recording studio and see the Ampex machines. I was hooked! I couldn't afford one of them, so I set about building one from scratch. You can read about it here. If you're not a member, you won't see the pictures so I'll post some below.
By 1960 I had a Grommes "Little Jewel" 10 watt mono amplifier that I built from a kit that my parents bought me for a birthday present. To go with that was a Lafayette Radio turntable with a Lafayette Radio viscous-dampened arm that resembled the big "Gray" arm that was so popular back then. This held a GE magnetic cartridge.
All through high school I took two periods of wood shop back to back each year. There I built various speaker and equipment cabinets out of solid red oak. Then a pair of plywood cabinets that became a slightly smaller version of the Altec A7 "voice of the theater" with the horns inside rather then on top.
Also, now I wanted more power and so cloned a pair of Heatkit W6M 70 watt ampifiers with custom wound output transformers that a friend's father supplied. He was VP of Executone in Long Island and got them made as experimental samples through the company.
Being 18-19 with a car in 1961 I was able to drive into New York City and shop downtown in "Radio Row" before the World Trade towers were built. I acquired a good used Marantz 7 preamp and a Thorens TD124 turntable with a Rek-O-Kut arm and Shure cartridge. These lasted and satisfied me for several years.
I was also a tape machine enthusiast and got a Heathkit as a present. It was actually a copy of a Viking deck. But I had a lot of fun with that toy until I had the chance to visit a recording studio and see the Ampex machines. I was hooked! I couldn't afford one of them, so I set about building one from scratch. You can read about it here. If you're not a member, you won't see the pictures so I'll post some below.
Attachments
I was only just around in the 1960's
However most people didn't have any money spare to speak of.
Most people would have to save for some time to buy even a 78 record changer.
However most of the stuff I remember as a child was about in the 50's on.
So second hand in the 60's
So most people had HMV, DECCA, Elizabethan, Invicta, Ekco, etc radios.
GEC was popular as well..and TV was not available in our house for some time. The radiogram was a favourite with many people but it used things like EF86 and UL84 or N78 Alba and Dansette were also popular UY85 rectifiers. I remember even into the early 70's the Radiogram was still in the front room of many houses. Although now playing 45's with the chart music. The transistor stuff could sound a bit weak at the time.
Back in the 60's the likes of practical wireless was a way forward..there was no internet or mobile phones. The only source of information was books many quite old 50's on. Or possibly a teacher at school or the local TV shop. Even the question where do you buy components?
You couldn't just go to the local shop..most of the stuff that was revamped war surplus sold off in some places. This is the era of change where easy listening was King and pop was frowned upon except by the youth of the time. My sisters first protest against the parents was John Lennon Give piece a chance played on a 1950 record player turned up until told off..
If you were well off you had Dynatron. Separates was not considered cool in the day. HIFI was only for the well off "strange types"...Music reproduction was from a piece of furniture selected by the wife...polished wood and looks nice with nice tone were the buzz words.
In that era being out on a picnic was the thing to do..so the portable transistor started to make an impact..car radios were an art form..
It was not until the late 60's we started to see HIFI start to make an impact...But for most DIY was out of the question it was not taught in school and most people worked shift work factories etc. Remember how short a time you are talking from the end of WW2 to 1960. These were the boom years where most people were still glad it was all over..they wanted good times..most people did not know what a drug was except for doctors.
Think of the "people type"...what was "In" in the 60's era...how many could you see with a soldering iron...Yes a spanner on a car...but electronics?
It was a black art..magic to some..
To most the electric train set was as far as electric DIY went..or fitting a plug. Maybe some house electrics or in the garage <<cost saving..
Regards
M. Gregg
However most people didn't have any money spare to speak of.
Most people would have to save for some time to buy even a 78 record changer.
However most of the stuff I remember as a child was about in the 50's on.
So second hand in the 60's
So most people had HMV, DECCA, Elizabethan, Invicta, Ekco, etc radios.
GEC was popular as well..and TV was not available in our house for some time. The radiogram was a favourite with many people but it used things like EF86 and UL84 or N78 Alba and Dansette were also popular UY85 rectifiers. I remember even into the early 70's the Radiogram was still in the front room of many houses. Although now playing 45's with the chart music. The transistor stuff could sound a bit weak at the time.
Back in the 60's the likes of practical wireless was a way forward..there was no internet or mobile phones. The only source of information was books many quite old 50's on. Or possibly a teacher at school or the local TV shop. Even the question where do you buy components?
You couldn't just go to the local shop..most of the stuff that was revamped war surplus sold off in some places. This is the era of change where easy listening was King and pop was frowned upon except by the youth of the time. My sisters first protest against the parents was John Lennon Give piece a chance played on a 1950 record player turned up until told off..
If you were well off you had Dynatron. Separates was not considered cool in the day. HIFI was only for the well off "strange types"...Music reproduction was from a piece of furniture selected by the wife...polished wood and looks nice with nice tone were the buzz words.
In that era being out on a picnic was the thing to do..so the portable transistor started to make an impact..car radios were an art form..
It was not until the late 60's we started to see HIFI start to make an impact...But for most DIY was out of the question it was not taught in school and most people worked shift work factories etc. Remember how short a time you are talking from the end of WW2 to 1960. These were the boom years where most people were still glad it was all over..they wanted good times..most people did not know what a drug was except for doctors.
Think of the "people type"...what was "In" in the 60's era...how many could you see with a soldering iron...Yes a spanner on a car...but electronics?
It was a black art..magic to some..
To most the electric train set was as far as electric DIY went..or fitting a plug. Maybe some house electrics or in the garage <<cost saving..
Regards
M. Gregg
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One more thought,
How many people had wired phones in there house in 1960?
If you wanted to make a phone call its a public phone box.
If you wanted to see your mate you went to his house and knocked the door to see if they were in..
Central heating..no...coal fire..
Car most people didn't have one it was push bike to work..
If you see where I'm coming from..now where is that soldering iron..
Select a speaker<<whats in the box most people didn't know..
Regards
M. Gregg
How many people had wired phones in there house in 1960?
If you wanted to make a phone call its a public phone box.
If you wanted to see your mate you went to his house and knocked the door to see if they were in..
Central heating..no...coal fire..
Car most people didn't have one it was push bike to work..
If you see where I'm coming from..now where is that soldering iron..
Select a speaker<<whats in the box most people didn't know..
Regards
M. Gregg
I was around in 1960, but a bit too young for hi-fi.kingneb said:
In those days an electronics enthusiast would probably have built his own amplifier and speakers. He may have put them all in one box, possibly with an AM radio and a turntable. We called that arrangement a 'radiogram'. It would probably have been mono. A really serious enthusiast might have had a reel-to-reel tape recorder too.
Back then people were mainly interested in the 'tone' of a system - rather as some still are today, although tastes have changed and people today often deny this. To our ears a 1960's system would sound bass heavy and lacking in upper treble.
Power levels would have 3-10W. Some hum at higher volume settings would be regarded as normal. On radio you would expect to sometimes get some interference from passing cars or a neighbour using an appliance containing an electric motor (e.g. drill, washing machine). However, there was none of the constant backgound electronic mush we get today from SMPS.
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It seems like England was a very different place compared to the US at that time consumer wise. My guess was the war had much to do with that. It was not really until (arguably) the mid 60's sometime the German (West, that is) economy fully recovered.
Speaking of England, my speaker system is Bowers and Wilkins. After a few listening tests, I concluded their speaker system is far superior to many. Even much more expensive systems.
They are efficient too. I can use a Stereo 70 with them and they sound almost (if not) just as loud as 140 watt PPP amplifiers. Now I am running 60 watt units with them. Anyone else love B&W?
AS far as tone goes as taste, was that England or the US as well?
Speaking of England, my speaker system is Bowers and Wilkins. After a few listening tests, I concluded their speaker system is far superior to many. Even much more expensive systems.
They are efficient too. I can use a Stereo 70 with them and they sound almost (if not) just as loud as 140 watt PPP amplifiers. Now I am running 60 watt units with them. Anyone else love B&W?
AS far as tone goes as taste, was that England or the US as well?
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The West German economy recovered much faster than that of the UK.
The currency reform of 1948 started what is known as the 'Wirtschaftswunder' (economic miracle) which lasted well into the '70s.
By the early '60s west german standard of living for the average worker far exceeded that of his UK counter part. Even my (german) parents do not remember a time they were without a car or central heating or telephone. According to my mum her family was NEVER without a car, even during the war. Her father was a self-employed carpenter.
Particularly helpful to the german economy was the Korean war. At that time West Germany was actively recruiting workers from Italy and Greece as there was a vast excess of well-paid manufacturing jobs and not nearly enough locals to fill them.
But the main reason for West Germany's economic prowess was due to the adoption of a social market rather than a free market economy. By the founding of the European Common Market in '57 Germany's astonishing economic growth stood in stark contrast to the struggling economy of the UK.
The currency reform of 1948 started what is known as the 'Wirtschaftswunder' (economic miracle) which lasted well into the '70s.
By the early '60s west german standard of living for the average worker far exceeded that of his UK counter part. Even my (german) parents do not remember a time they were without a car or central heating or telephone. According to my mum her family was NEVER without a car, even during the war. Her father was a self-employed carpenter.
Particularly helpful to the german economy was the Korean war. At that time West Germany was actively recruiting workers from Italy and Greece as there was a vast excess of well-paid manufacturing jobs and not nearly enough locals to fill them.
But the main reason for West Germany's economic prowess was due to the adoption of a social market rather than a free market economy. By the founding of the European Common Market in '57 Germany's astonishing economic growth stood in stark contrast to the struggling economy of the UK.
We had TV in the 50s as did most of my friends families.
I remember us having two cars in the late 50s, one was an Austin Haley 3000 (Bright red), the other was a Plymouth station wagon(Metallic Green).
We had radio but I don't remember a good stereo until 1962. I do remember a big brown Bakelite Turntable that my parents played records on. I have some 78s they had.
My father was stationed in Spain from 1960-1963. While there he purchased a Telefunken console AM/FM/SW and it was stereo with turntable and tape deck. It was a beautiful piece of furniture with side speakers that swiveled out, and an extension set of speakers that could be placed up to about 3M from the main unit.
He eventually replaced all the electronics except the tuner with SS electronics by the late 70s.
I remember us having two cars in the late 50s, one was an Austin Haley 3000 (Bright red), the other was a Plymouth station wagon(Metallic Green).
We had radio but I don't remember a good stereo until 1962. I do remember a big brown Bakelite Turntable that my parents played records on. I have some 78s they had.
My father was stationed in Spain from 1960-1963. While there he purchased a Telefunken console AM/FM/SW and it was stereo with turntable and tape deck. It was a beautiful piece of furniture with side speakers that swiveled out, and an extension set of speakers that could be placed up to about 3M from the main unit.
He eventually replaced all the electronics except the tuner with SS electronics by the late 70s.
1960's HIFI..
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...455&bih=665#q=Decca+radiogram&tbm=isch&imgdii=_
And only if you were lucky..
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=practical+wireless+1960&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=0_ciU7-FNI2BhAeZoYGICA&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1455&bih=665#q=hmv%20record%20player%20models&revid=957423508&tbm=isch&imgdii=_
Then My forever PITA N78 that I wanted because I was trying to make a stereo amp with two HMV record player tube amps and couldn't get one..but guess what 40 years on and now I can....but I couldn't get one in 1974..
http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mn4uq_Pdielf5wSic43Szbg.jpg
When you think HIFI..remember this was cutting edge at the time..
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=m...h=665#q=morris+1000+when+was+it+made&tbm=isch
Regards
M. Gregg
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=p...455&bih=665#q=Decca+radiogram&tbm=isch&imgdii=_
And only if you were lucky..
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=practical+wireless+1960&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=0_ciU7-FNI2BhAeZoYGICA&ved=0CDYQsAQ&biw=1455&bih=665#q=hmv%20record%20player%20models&revid=957423508&tbm=isch&imgdii=_
Then My forever PITA N78 that I wanted because I was trying to make a stereo amp with two HMV record player tube amps and couldn't get one..but guess what 40 years on and now I can..
..but I couldn't get one in 1974..http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mn4uq_Pdielf5wSic43Szbg.jpg
When you think HIFI..remember this was cutting edge at the time..
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=m...h=665#q=morris+1000+when+was+it+made&tbm=isch
Regards
M. Gregg
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I remember those consoles. They were ubiquitous in West Germany, everybody had them including my grandmother.
Think of the "people type"...what was "In" in the 60's era...how many could you see with a soldering iron...Yes a spanner on a car...but electronics?
It was a black art..magic to some..
This is very different from what I have seen here in the US. Pre- 60's my grandpa built and repaired his stereo. He had spools of magnet wire to fix burned out motors. Had an entire shed full of old electrical gear, as did all his neighbors (all farmers). My dad in the 60's built audio kits of various sorts.
These days, however, everyone does see it as magic. Those black chips and a plastic box... what could they possibly do? The average person certainly does not know anymore.. Where in the 60's I'd say most people had an idea of what the tubes and transformers did, and how to repair them.
I'd say people were better w/ spanners back then too.. Dad and grandpa certainly repaired all their own tractors and cars... Where as today, even the most masculine American can barely change a tire or fix a loose bolt.
The top of the line console system at the time was the Magnavox Concert Grand. it was 1500.00 in 1960, that's as much as a car. it's a dual bi-amped monoblock console, 4 amplifiers, the preamp had a separate power supply and it had a remote control. At the time Magnavox has unlimited R&D budget and the person running Magnavox was an audiophile and each system design had to be personally approved by him. I have one and can say it’s incredible even by today’s standards.
Next was McIntosh, they were at the top when it comes to separates. Again most could not afford them.
Back then if you were really into audio and didn’t have unlimited amounts of money you built your own system. Back then building your own amplifier was not uncommon as it is today. Heathkit, HH Scott, McIntosh and others offered equipment in kit form and much of it was very good stuff. Otherwise you just bought what you could afford.
Next was McIntosh, they were at the top when it comes to separates. Again most could not afford them.
Back then if you were really into audio and didn’t have unlimited amounts of money you built your own system. Back then building your own amplifier was not uncommon as it is today. Heathkit, HH Scott, McIntosh and others offered equipment in kit form and much of it was very good stuff. Otherwise you just bought what you could afford.
I grew up in an upper middle class American household, 2 cars, one Magnavox B&W TV. We had a "high end" Magnavox HiFi (mono) console in the late 50's. It ran a pair of 6V6's for about 10 watts into a 3 way speaker system. My parents listened to pop and jazz music of the day. I can remember them dancing the twist to Chubby Checker, or mellowing out to Dave Brubeck.
Sometime in the early 60's they upgraded to a Silvertone stereo console. The old Magnavox HiFi became my first "DIY" guitar amp!
My "system" in 1960 consisted of a tube Hallicrafters S-76 Short Wave radio with a DIY external speaker. I was 8 years old. In the early 60's Frito Lays was attaching 45 RPM singles to bags of Fritos and potato chips. I had collected a few, so I wired a trash dump turntable into the radio to make my first "HiFi". I had resurrected a trash dump stereo pretty early in the 60's and went on th make my own stuff by high school.
The doctor that lived next door had built a pair of DIY Karlson Horn speakers. He had a Heathkit tube stereo and a Garrard turntabe with some kind of reel to reel tape deck, Ampex maybe. In the early 60's he bought a Heathkit AR-13A solid state receiver kit, and couldn't finish the build. He paid me to finish it. Somewhere in the late 60's he upgraded to a Fisher 500TX and I got the old Heathkit. I got my own 500TX in 1972.
Sometime in the early 60's they upgraded to a Silvertone stereo console. The old Magnavox HiFi became my first "DIY" guitar amp!
My "system" in 1960 consisted of a tube Hallicrafters S-76 Short Wave radio with a DIY external speaker. I was 8 years old. In the early 60's Frito Lays was attaching 45 RPM singles to bags of Fritos and potato chips. I had collected a few, so I wired a trash dump turntable into the radio to make my first "HiFi". I had resurrected a trash dump stereo pretty early in the 60's and went on th make my own stuff by high school.
The doctor that lived next door had built a pair of DIY Karlson Horn speakers. He had a Heathkit tube stereo and a Garrard turntabe with some kind of reel to reel tape deck, Ampex maybe. In the early 60's he bought a Heathkit AR-13A solid state receiver kit, and couldn't finish the build. He paid me to finish it. Somewhere in the late 60's he upgraded to a Fisher 500TX and I got the old Heathkit. I got my own 500TX in 1972.
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