Matt Scarlett,
Another driver you can check out is the Mark Audio Alpair 10.3 - in the right cabinets these dig quite low for a wide-band/FR driver and has good treble extension too. Price at KJF Audio (also a member at this forum) would be £175 for a pair.
Edit: Even more suitable (from the specs/product info, as I have no experience with this driver) might be the Pluvia 11. Also slightly lower cost at £160/pair
Another driver you can check out is the Mark Audio Alpair 10.3 - in the right cabinets these dig quite low for a wide-band/FR driver and has good treble extension too. Price at KJF Audio (also a member at this forum) would be £175 for a pair.
Edit: Even more suitable (from the specs/product info, as I have no experience with this driver) might be the Pluvia 11. Also slightly lower cost at £160/pair
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Thanks for the suggestion. Price-wise they might be a tad out of what i'm comfortable with spending. I have/had Mark audio on the peripheries of consideration rather than them being high on my list. For whatever reason I'm looking for a driver with relatively high sensitivity, hence my looking at the TB's, although the Mark 10's don't have the worst sensitivity rating. Although, effectively whatever speakers i go with will be for computer desk use, i didn't want to consider what would add up to be near field speakers ... drivers with particularly low sensitivity, Fountek, Fostex (although i have mentioned them in my OP) and the like.
I have to say that before i really started looking, i did have a slightly blinkered view of FR drivers not being able to cut it in the SPL stakes, but there are some impressive drivers out there MA included.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nee_InC_ubo MLTL with Markaudio Alpair 10 Gen 2 - Demo 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcWnyvYTSMc Tangband W6 1916 - Fratelli Abbate Speakers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19XJYirvOfg Full range speaker trying to walk.
Matt,
If you notice, both the TB and Mark Audio drivers are in large floor-standing cabinets. On a desktop as computer speakers, we can assume that cabinets will be smaller? In that case, you will be sacrificing some of the LF extension.
The other thing is, with larger drivers in the near-field listening setup that you have described, they might sound a bit bright, but YMMV.
If you notice, both the TB and Mark Audio drivers are in large floor-standing cabinets. On a desktop as computer speakers, we can assume that cabinets will be smaller? In that case, you will be sacrificing some of the LF extension.
The other thing is, with larger drivers in the near-field listening setup that you have described, they might sound a bit bright, but YMMV.
So that's why I want to design a fairly hefty/lengthy t-line to give me the extension. I don't think for me building tiny 10L (type) enclosures will do it for me. A sinlge t-line that maybe my amp and PC screen can sit on
Couple of observations:
- Each driver located at different points of the line? Hmmm... even if this were to work out, wouldn't that tune them differently?
- Two wide-band drivers in a single cabinet, each being fed with a different (as in stereo) signal - not sure if that's the best option sound quality wise.
Maybe more experienced folks can comment on the approach.
- Each driver located at different points of the line? Hmmm... even if this were to work out, wouldn't that tune them differently?
- Two wide-band drivers in a single cabinet, each being fed with a different (as in stereo) signal - not sure if that's the best option sound quality wise.
Maybe more experienced folks can comment on the approach.
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Thinking about it, I don't really push my Monitor Audio's. I'm not into deafening my neighbours by opening the windows and having a blast. Maybe ... what I could do with is a half decent near field set up!
CHN-70 Paper (pair) | KJF Audio Mark Audio CHN-70 £35 a pair ... might be worth a punt! So many to consider.
CHN-70 Paper (pair) | KJF Audio Mark Audio CHN-70 £35 a pair ... might be worth a punt! So many to consider.
You're right, it's definitely not the best concept, however, it is just a concept, and i quickly did a Sketchup drawing just to give a sense of my intention. I don't think that particular design is 'The One', just thought;
1) I single enclosure along the lines of a soundbar
2) Yes you're right, the effects of where the drivers would go in this design is problematic at best i think.
maybe something along the line of the Bose design might be better
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/243483-improved-transmission-line-alignment.html
Matt,
I recall reading that driver having a particular shape of frequency response, but diyA member xrk971 got it working pretty well in a Karlsonator cab:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/280669-improving-chn-70-a-5.html#post4484195
Among smaller divers, the Pluvia 7 also holds some promise, but haven't heard those myself.
Edit: I might be wrong, but the Bose design in your previous post is probably for the sub-woofer unit; the mid and high frequencies would be handled by the satellites.
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Pluvia 7 £85 - Pluvia 7 ? Soft Chrome/Vintage Gold (pair) | KJF Audio
How does Mark Audio compare against Fostex, TB and other FR drivers?
In the Home Audio corner:
CHN-70 Paper (pair) | KJF Audio - £35
CHR-70 Brushed Metal (pair) | KJF Audio - £60
In the Car Audio corner:
JL Audio TR525-CXi - Evolution TR Series 5.25'' 2-way Car Speakers EX-DEMO #376 99440910307 | eBay - £49.99
Morel Maximo 5.25 inch 130mm Coaxial Speakers | eBay £45
Choose ...... for me
CHN-70 Paper (pair) | KJF Audio - £35
CHR-70 Brushed Metal (pair) | KJF Audio - £60
In the Car Audio corner:
JL Audio TR525-CXi - Evolution TR Series 5.25'' 2-way Car Speakers EX-DEMO #376 99440910307 | eBay - £49.99
Morel Maximo 5.25 inch 130mm Coaxial Speakers | eBay £45
Choose ...... for me
In the Home Audio corner:
CHN-70 Paper (pair) | KJF Audio - £35
CHR-70 Brushed Metal (pair) | KJF Audio - £60
In the Car Audio corner:
JL Audio TR525-CXi - Evolution TR Series 5.25'' 2-way Car Speakers EX-DEMO #376 99440910307 | eBay - £49.99
Morel Maximo 5.25 inch 130mm Coaxial Speakers | eBay £45
Choose ...... for me please
Hello there, I think I might have a couple of things to add since I am sniffing the same ideas you are:
- the enclosure built by Hexibase for the Fostex Fe103En has been discussed in thread a long long time ago - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/208972-fostex-fe103en-transmission-line.html - I had a major contribution to the thread and concluded eventually that the choice of the driver was not at at all a good one – it should have been a driver with Qts>0.4 and a Xmax of at least a minimum of 1.5 mm but more like 2.5-5 mm would have been the best.
- Consider building an enclosure with 2 drivers/channel this solves many problems of the smaller sized drivers but keeps the good dispersion; the best option would be 2 x 4inch drivers with good dispersion, this might end up being a bass monster and good SPL too; it would actually make a better option than a 5 inch driver because it would have more radiating (10% maybe) surface and better dispersion and high freq. extension
- TangBand has two 5 inch drivers – 2143 and 1611SAF and after considerable research on the internet I concluded that both have the same issue of the high frequency dispersion (deep cone), this will not be a match to a smaller cone but you will probably get the deepest bass especially from the 1611… however we are talking sub 50hz territory; as I said 2x 4”/enclosure is the best option out there.
- RE: “My philosophy is design, test, make adjustments” – the best way to do that in a TL is to mass load it and just adjust the length of the port, no need to rebuild the whole thing, plus a mass loaded straight line (like in a TABAQ) has a larger section so you can deal with the mids/highs coming from the back of the cone easier (more room to “breath”)
(notice I don’t considered anything above 5 inch due to offaxis response problem and probably price…; I also did not considered any size limitations of the enclosure or the option to equalize or add filters to the setup)
Oh by the way – those Fostexes in the video are helped by other things not just a TL – a room mode around 50-55 hz – that’s the “growl” you keep hearing and probably listening position… and I fear a little equalisation. Otherwise they are correctly build (large enough for the tuning frequency) and also the placement of the driver is the one that suits the low Qts but I would have added 2 more optimizations for extra bass output – an expanding geometry – but no driver offset - and a terminus placed at ground level.
Another example of a TL with the same architecture and same sort of driver (Fostex 20 cm unit) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wOCIx53b68 – that seems to render useless all those complicated horn enclosures – this one I know for sure has no eq or subwoofer but does have a room mode that keeps showing up.
To make a suggestion – go for 2 x MarkAudio CHR70 / enclosure = 100 cm2/enclosure and you will get all the bass output you can within the price, enough to call it too much in small rooms; by the way the larger MarkAudio Alpair7 is optimized for grace and you cannot touch the cone because it’s nanotechnology (read the official description of the drier)… and you still only have 88 cm2 pumping air… I am obviously talking about a full sized transmission line.
- the enclosure built by Hexibase for the Fostex Fe103En has been discussed in thread a long long time ago - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/208972-fostex-fe103en-transmission-line.html - I had a major contribution to the thread and concluded eventually that the choice of the driver was not at at all a good one – it should have been a driver with Qts>0.4 and a Xmax of at least a minimum of 1.5 mm but more like 2.5-5 mm would have been the best.
- Consider building an enclosure with 2 drivers/channel this solves many problems of the smaller sized drivers but keeps the good dispersion; the best option would be 2 x 4inch drivers with good dispersion, this might end up being a bass monster and good SPL too; it would actually make a better option than a 5 inch driver because it would have more radiating (10% maybe) surface and better dispersion and high freq. extension
- TangBand has two 5 inch drivers – 2143 and 1611SAF and after considerable research on the internet I concluded that both have the same issue of the high frequency dispersion (deep cone), this will not be a match to a smaller cone but you will probably get the deepest bass especially from the 1611… however we are talking sub 50hz territory; as I said 2x 4”/enclosure is the best option out there.
- RE: “My philosophy is design, test, make adjustments” – the best way to do that in a TL is to mass load it and just adjust the length of the port, no need to rebuild the whole thing, plus a mass loaded straight line (like in a TABAQ) has a larger section so you can deal with the mids/highs coming from the back of the cone easier (more room to “breath”)
(notice I don’t considered anything above 5 inch due to offaxis response problem and probably price…; I also did not considered any size limitations of the enclosure or the option to equalize or add filters to the setup)
Oh by the way – those Fostexes in the video are helped by other things not just a TL – a room mode around 50-55 hz – that’s the “growl” you keep hearing and probably listening position… and I fear a little equalisation. Otherwise they are correctly build (large enough for the tuning frequency) and also the placement of the driver is the one that suits the low Qts but I would have added 2 more optimizations for extra bass output – an expanding geometry – but no driver offset - and a terminus placed at ground level.
Another example of a TL with the same architecture and same sort of driver (Fostex 20 cm unit) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wOCIx53b68 – that seems to render useless all those complicated horn enclosures – this one I know for sure has no eq or subwoofer but does have a room mode that keeps showing up.
To make a suggestion – go for 2 x MarkAudio CHR70 / enclosure = 100 cm2/enclosure and you will get all the bass output you can within the price, enough to call it too much in small rooms; by the way the larger MarkAudio Alpair7 is optimized for grace and you cannot touch the cone because it’s nanotechnology (read the official description of the drier)… and you still only have 88 cm2 pumping air… I am obviously talking about a full sized transmission line.
Do you mean you don't trust yourself with the volume knob?
er .. hmm ...yeah
But as I said previously, if i'm honest, i don't really push the Monitor Audio's that much. bit socially conscience when it comes to home audio, but car car audio I want a bit of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmRYTQAS7W4
I could buy 2 pairs of the CHR and wire them to 16ohms.
I like those woofers that do away with magnets altogether Way Down Deep II ServoDrive Contrabass | Sound & Vision
The CHR-70's in a TL enclosure would suit your musical tastes i reckon especially if you can wring all the claimed FR outa them
As for amp power too much is always better than not enough , they'll be fine especially as they utilize a limiter.
CHR .... I meant CHN x 2 pairs and wire them down to 16ohms. Ah ... are they a 6 ohm driver???
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