i want a speaker that disappears, i mean that i want to not be able to tell where the sound is coming from. of course there will have to be some top-end attenuation. i want the speakers to sound detailed and heavenly. i already gots some accurate low-distortion speakers so now i want to try something different, something heavenly. looking for pointers on the drivers. i don't think i'll be using a tweeter since that allows me to pinpoint the source of the sound, and that is not heavenly. helper tweeter is no thnx. not much output is needed either, so 0.1mm xmax is fine and i have no problem building outrageous enclosures as long as they are small enough to put on my computer desk. the speakers will be used solely for playing video games like old skool RPGs and DOOM, maybe some Oblivion too. i'm sure you all have some heavenly experiences to share. thnx gentlemen, fullrange speakers are thnx.
Hmm. Something like a pair of FE167Es in a ~25 litre ported box could be a way forward. Thing is, I think you've got a couple of contradictory requirements. Heavenly sound -but for use playing Doom? Don't get me wrong, I was addicted to Doom when it first came out (Oh dear -that was about 13 years ago. I'm getting old!) and still consider it to be the best PC game since the pre-sliced-bread days. But full-range drivers are not perhaps the best solution to this requirement -you won't get much bass extension -they need big enclosures to do that. Like a 4 foot tall TL enclosure or a 6 foot tall pair of horns, neither of which are going to fit well on your desk. 80Hz or so will be about the limit I suspect.
cotdt said:i want a speaker that disappears, i mean that i want to not be able to tell where the sound is coming from. of course there will have to be some top-end attenuation. i want the speakers to sound detailed and heavenly. i already gots some accurate low-distortion speakers so now i want to try something different, something heavenly. looking for pointers on the drivers. i don't think i'll be using a tweeter since that allows me to pinpoint the source of the sound, and that is not heavenly. helper tweeter is no thnx. not much output is needed either, so 0.1mm xmax is fine and i have no problem building outrageous enclosures as long as they are small enough to put on my computer desk. the speakers will be used solely for playing video games like old skool RPGs and DOOM, maybe some Oblivion too. i'm sure you all have some heavenly experiences to share. thnx gentlemen, fullrange speakers are thnx.
Try to find a Labtec 2040 to purchase - it has this character. (..and no, this is not a joke.)
I could not even find the Labtec 2040 on google or ebay, so maybe it is even older than DOOM? But if the sound is heavenly, then i will continue to seek for it. In the meantime I will look into the Fostex FE167E's in a small ported box. How should I tune it? Is the midrange clear and heavenly? I don't absolutely need bass, since I'm used to headphones with no bass or even lower midrange. maybe i will try to integrate my 12" subwoofer, but if not, i can live without the deep bass. So can people all agree that the FE167E is heavenly? are there any other suggestions?
cotdt said:I could not even find the Labtec 2040 on google or ebay, so maybe it is even older than DOOM? But if the sound is heavenly, then i will continue to seek for it. In the meantime I will look into the Fostex FE167E's in a small ported box. How should I tune it? Is the midrange clear and heavenly? I don't absolutely need bass, since I'm used to headphones with no bass or even lower midrange. maybe i will try to integrate my 12" subwoofer, but if not, i can live without the deep bass. So can people all agree that the FE167E is heavenly? are there any other suggestions?
the labtec I *think* is about 6-9 years old.. Crappy little fullrange drivers and a small "sub". Doesn't have much treble - but man does it have midrange.
I would think that the fe107e would work well in Tony Gee's Solo 103:
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Solo103.html
ScottG, are you implying that the FE167E's don't sound heavenly while the FE107E's do? I'm just thinking that a small 4" with a tiny xmax might lack body, and we want heavenly so body is thnx. I still need lower midrange for some body and a little bass impact when the monsters attack me. Tony Gee's Solo 103 is described as "Such openness, neutrality and an amazing sound stage with immense depth and width. Every thing can be pin-pointed in the virtual soundscape, every little sound, the turning of a page of sheet music, the breathing of the instrumentalists, its all there." this is exactly what i want for heaven, but i was disappointed when he said that "you can’t expect ultra low bass orgies." but i want some bass orgy too, or not heavenly.
So the FE167E is not good? What is good then? Small enclosures are thnx, but they can be tall. Tall is OK. Extension to 80-90Hz would be great, especially with my collection of subwoofers.
So the FE167E is not good? What is good then? Small enclosures are thnx, but they can be tall. Tall is OK. Extension to 80-90Hz would be great, especially with my collection of subwoofers.
in the nearfeild...
try building recommended bass reflex enclosures for the fostex ff85k, or fe87e. those things are ultra detailed and meant for the nearfeild. they certainly have a quality of clarity that cannot be reproduced by any other speakers.
I am personally partial to the ff85k. the fe87e might perhaps be a little more heavenly though. the back loaded horn of fe87e is VERY fun.
your tradeoff with the smaller cabinets and drivers will be a slightly higher sub crossover, like 100 hz.
since you have subs,, no prob right?
Clark
try building recommended bass reflex enclosures for the fostex ff85k, or fe87e. those things are ultra detailed and meant for the nearfeild. they certainly have a quality of clarity that cannot be reproduced by any other speakers.
I am personally partial to the ff85k. the fe87e might perhaps be a little more heavenly though. the back loaded horn of fe87e is VERY fun.
your tradeoff with the smaller cabinets and drivers will be a slightly higher sub crossover, like 100 hz.
since you have subs,, no prob right?
Clark
cotdt said:ScottG, are you implying that the FE167E's don't sound heavenly while the FE107E's do? I'm just thinking that a small 4" with a tiny xmax might lack body, and we want heavenly so body is thnx. I still need lower midrange for some body and a little bass impact when the monsters attack me. Tony Gee's Solo 103 is described as "Such openness, neutrality and an amazing sound stage with immense depth and width. Every thing can be pin-pointed in the virtual soundscape, every little sound, the turning of a page of sheet music, the breathing of the instrumentalists, its all there." this is exactly what i want for heaven, but i was disappointed when he said that "you can’t expect ultra low bass orgies." but i want some bass orgy too, or not heavenly.
So the FE167E is not good? What is good then? Small enclosures are thnx, but they can be tall. Tall is OK. Extension to 80-90Hz would be great, especially with my collection of subwoofers.
A good subwoofer cross'ed high will provide the bass response with "punch" and "slam".
The larger the driver's diameter - the more diffuse the sound becomes near-field. So no, I would not suggest the FE167E.
blumenco's suggestion however might be excellent, but you can forget a real horn to sit on your desk-top. Additionally neither have enough low freq. extension without a horn and neither allow the use of a bucking magnet because of their back-plates - so the magnetic field could be a problem. Still, I could see a bass-reflex for the ff85k with a sub crossed very high. It also appears to have a large upper midrange dip - this would enhance the "depth" perspective.
That's what bothers me about the smaller drivers. Sound over 75Hz is directional, so you'll end up hearing bass from one place and the rest of the frequency range from another. And with a driver smaller than about 6 1/2in, with a restricted cabinet size, you'd have to cross over way above this point.
Of the tiny driver the FF85K would be my first choice, as was suggested above. But I still wouldn't want to try it for this application. As I say, a 'heavenly' sound (i.e. a pretty sound) and Doom doth not a happy combination make.
Of the tiny driver the FF85K would be my first choice, as was suggested above. But I still wouldn't want to try it for this application. As I say, a 'heavenly' sound (i.e. a pretty sound) and Doom doth not a happy combination make.
As I understand it, flat panels don't get very low, but i will look into NXT flat panels anyway to please the kittens. however for gaming, i need some better extension down low so I am looking into scootmoose's advice about getting a 6.5". maybe a 5" or 6" might work too, i don't know. the FF85K looks too small to sound heavenly and i am afraid sound will lack body. my games have a lot of classical music so i need the boom boom boom. extension to 80Hz? thnx. but extension to 20kHz is no thnx, i prefer attentuated treble. treble is for nelly furtado and rap music, not classical music and games. i've been building nice speakers for a while, so i'm not looking for the best all-around speakers 'cause honestly my speakers are taking up half of the entire house space. so i just want the most heavenly speakers (yes, i do think it'll work great with DOOM). i have a lot of money to spend on this project, literally a million bucks, so there isn't really a budget but i do beleive that you can get heavenly sound for a cheap price due to all the expert advice this forum.
what do you guys think about the fostex sigma drivers? they look like neat little things, and the enclosures seem narrow enough to fit on my table. the drivers are so beautiful, just looking at it makes me very happy. i'll probably buy them anyway just so i can touch their cones with my fingers.
what do you guys think about the fostex sigma drivers? they look like neat little things, and the enclosures seem narrow enough to fit on my table. the drivers are so beautiful, just looking at it makes me very happy. i'll probably buy them anyway just so i can touch their cones with my fingers.
You could have a look at this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55949&highlight=
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=55949&highlight=
pinkmouse said:A flat panel NXT system sounds ideal for you.
Nope.. I have them as well (..the best of the TDK's) - its good, but not that good.
Scott:
Also a subwoofer crossed over high isn't a problem with most near-field computer set-ups. For instance the TDK's I have almost certainly have the subwoofer around 150 Hz +, and it isn't a problem.
cotdt:
..after factoring the effects of baffle diffraction the sigma looks very good with the Solo 103. (..you might need to do some alteration to the box/porting to get the response you want though.) Of course you don't have a bucking magnet with this driver.
fe167e in br........
fe167e in a good small BR cab will do the dissapearing act that you seak easily,get a cheap class D active sub ran thru high pass, in the mix set @ about 100hz & your in the game like no tommorrow, put phase plugs in the fe176e's & you are REALY in the game..........
fe167e in a good small BR cab will do the dissapearing act that you seak easily,get a cheap class D active sub ran thru high pass, in the mix set @ about 100hz & your in the game like no tommorrow, put phase plugs in the fe176e's & you are REALY in the game..........
My $.02
If your room is setup in a way to allow it. Bipolar arrangement with the speakers placed on the sides of you. Front drivers aimed in the direction your facing and rear drivers aimed behind you. I built a pair using TB W-4 1052SA drivers and they sound great. When placed like this, you can't tell where the sound is coming from, but it will surround you. Regardless of the driver you choose, it would be recommended to add a sub for PC gaming. The full range sound can have adaquate bass for most music(except rap house, ect), when placed right. As far as gaming goes, you won't get that "thud" that punches you in the gut, which is a must IMO.
If your room is setup in a way to allow it. Bipolar arrangement with the speakers placed on the sides of you. Front drivers aimed in the direction your facing and rear drivers aimed behind you. I built a pair using TB W-4 1052SA drivers and they sound great. When placed like this, you can't tell where the sound is coming from, but it will surround you. Regardless of the driver you choose, it would be recommended to add a sub for PC gaming. The full range sound can have adaquate bass for most music(except rap house, ect), when placed right. As far as gaming goes, you won't get that "thud" that punches you in the gut, which is a must IMO.
what about using the drivers facing upwards. The reverbrance might make the driver less noticeable.
I also agree that above 80Hz bass is quite directional and if you really want to use a 3 pc system (bass-sat) you would need a driver that is useable to 80Hz in your application (SPL levels and location).
This really means using drivers 4" and larger (Fostex 103, 107, 126, 127, Jordan Jx92, Veravox 5, Supravox 135, etc...) from 80Hz upwards and a small tight sub below 80Hz. A boomy sub will draw too much attention (like many PC gaming speakers).
Larger drivers will allow lower cut offs but at the cost of beaming or a ragged HF response. Upfiring such drivers might aleviate these issues to some extent.
I also agree that above 80Hz bass is quite directional and if you really want to use a 3 pc system (bass-sat) you would need a driver that is useable to 80Hz in your application (SPL levels and location).
This really means using drivers 4" and larger (Fostex 103, 107, 126, 127, Jordan Jx92, Veravox 5, Supravox 135, etc...) from 80Hz upwards and a small tight sub below 80Hz. A boomy sub will draw too much attention (like many PC gaming speakers).
Larger drivers will allow lower cut offs but at the cost of beaming or a ragged HF response. Upfiring such drivers might aleviate these issues to some extent.
then dude, close your eyes.....![Smile :) :)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
seriously, there have been only as handfull of loudspeakers that I have heard that actually disappear. Almost all have been small enclosure monitor style (ProAc Response 1s come to mind, the NHT Super Zeros are another, Totem Mites, etc.), narrow tall baffled (Totem Arro-I have only listened to these for a short period of time) or super wide baffled. I won't keep nagging about open baffles, but if you have the oppotunity to hear some, give them a try. The Basszillas that I have listened to do this as well (another wide baffle solution).
Everyone has their faves, but I think that to" disappear", speakers must have good phase characteristics, and good transient response with no or little diffraction issues from the baffle.
From this it would make sense that any good full ranger, in a properly built box (BR , etc), or OB could fit the bill (unless I've missed something here, and I am guilty of that often enough).
If feeling adventurous a Lowther "Ace" enclosure could be interesting...(even without a Lowther driver..)
seriously, there have been only as handfull of loudspeakers that I have heard that actually disappear. Almost all have been small enclosure monitor style (ProAc Response 1s come to mind, the NHT Super Zeros are another, Totem Mites, etc.), narrow tall baffled (Totem Arro-I have only listened to these for a short period of time) or super wide baffled. I won't keep nagging about open baffles, but if you have the oppotunity to hear some, give them a try. The Basszillas that I have listened to do this as well (another wide baffle solution).
Everyone has their faves, but I think that to" disappear", speakers must have good phase characteristics, and good transient response with no or little diffraction issues from the baffle.
From this it would make sense that any good full ranger, in a properly built box (BR , etc), or OB could fit the bill (unless I've missed something here, and I am guilty of that often enough).
If feeling adventurous a Lowther "Ace" enclosure could be interesting...(even without a Lowther driver..)
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
- Home
- Loudspeakers
- Full Range
- i want speaker to disappear