Thats why you pay a person a couple hundred to set it up for you. people like me. This is also why you have redundant data, so if a hard drive fails, you dont lose everything. If you're raving about your tube amp glowing, you really havent seen custom PCs, have you? 
You can just buy a pre-configured media server where you can just stick the CD in and hit a button and it will rip your CDs for you. no hassle.
You can just buy a pre-configured media server where you can just stick the CD in and hit a button and it will rip your CDs for you. no hassle.
Some people are into both - now that is a concept, wow.
Fine if you ain't, you don't have to apologize, I am only 61 years old so my youthful exuberance might be forgiven, but I am used to do research, a habit from when I visited University...
What is annoying that the same xxxxx who claim that you cannot have an opinion about cables and other audio exotica when you don't believe in their efficacy suddenly show up here and claim jurisdiction over a topic with generalized statements with no solid connections to reality.
If abraxas is not a cable xxxxx I apologize beforehand for insinuating he might be - but I thought I remember the name well.
Perhaps you were previously unaware of the way electrical noise generation is checked in the business. Its not done by listening to the output on speakers in general (though this might be one part of the EMC testing of a product). In the main its done under controlled conditions, using an anechoic chamber and some multi-thousand dollar kit - a caiibrated antenna and a LISN and a spectrum analyser. I believe you'll have a hard time convincing customers your method is reliable, though I'll admit its cheap and quick.
My statement was that in general, CD players have a smaller EMC footprint than PCs. So far you've not rebutted that claim, rather gone around the houses with irrelevancies. One might be forgiven for thinking you actually don't have an argument at all
You didn't say what sample rate you were looking at. Remember this electrical noise I'm speaking of its by and large in the RF region. Your average audio ADC won't get a sniff of it.
Nothing compared to the humiliation of being totally mistaken on this thread
Whether its an issue or not is another matter entirely, I wasn't making claims about whether any particular person would find it an issue. You don't find it an issue, that's OK with me. Doesn't change my argument in the slightest.
Zyren......I bought a pre-configured media player....I put the disk in and push play.
Sorry Ak....I'm only 50......and me didnt go to no unavarsity.........but manage to make a few bucks without it.
I happen to believe in cables, players, amps, rooms and their treatments.....
I have spent a lot of $ on all the above......as I'm sure you have. The only point I was trying to make is that to be an audiophile doesnt mean you have to be into the latest puter tech......as the OP stated he couldnt understand why.....I was just trying to state that some of us dont have the desire.....we are more into just the time listening.....not all the research.
As far as time.....I build speakers......you tweak PC systems......to each their own I guess
Sorry Ak....I'm only 50......and me didnt go to no unavarsity.....
....but manage to make a few bucks without it.I happen to believe in cables, players, amps, rooms and their treatments.....
I have spent a lot of $ on all the above......as I'm sure you have. The only point I was trying to make is that to be an audiophile doesnt mean you have to be into the latest puter tech......as the OP stated he couldnt understand why.....I was just trying to state that some of us dont have the desire.....we are more into just the time listening.....not all the research.
As far as time.....I build speakers......you tweak PC systems......to each their own I guess
Why should i worry if it is in a region where the audio signal is not influenced_ with cell phones, wireless connections the last thing I worry is the rf noise produced by my computer. There is a lot more around plus a 20kV powerline just outside my house.
Still, I cannot hear it when my speaker is cranked up fully with no audio signal on - so I don't care. The noise from my old analogue chain was far more intrusive.
After the initial pain of setting up - that is what I am doing now, with the convenience of directly accessing the library and whatever is out there on the net.
I worried about cables only as long as I believed I could hear a difference - when I had to disabuse myself of the notion I stopped worrying and embraced the new technology as an extension of the non worry, got rid of several bryston amps, pre and power and various cd players, including behringer signal processing units but kept my thorenses and went almost completely digital.
I still buy CD's, but they are ripped immediately.
I have backup hard disc space, and eventually look forward to a non mechanical storage system when those can pack what a HDD can pack.
The CD was only a step towards complete digitization, and I wonder about the defenders of that technology many of whom only months ago where totally convinced (and many of them still are) that analogue is the only way.
As far as speaker building - I gave that up after I bought some cheaply priced kef 104/2. Maybe one day when really good non pistonic transducers are available down to 20 Hz and below.
As to the power footprint - I look at my system as a whole, and the computer with idling d class power amps (or running at about 75dB at the listening position) uses at about 150W (as reported by my UPS) substantially less than my previous chain with several amps, cd players, sound processing equipment - one idling Bryston power amp used already 250W - so I think I am saving power not wasting it. Including running a 50" plasma TV the system only uses a total max of 350 watts.
It is this system approach that saves me actually money right now.
I could also save even more by letting the computer shut off, but downloading torrents happens usually when you are asleep - so the computer has to work.
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I'm not saying you should worry. Just that its an issue for some people - myself included. In fact, I don't find the differences audible when no music is playing - rather the electrical noise affects things only when music is playing. That's because the RF intermodulates with audio signals to produce stuff which masks other low-level information - particularly depth cues. That's my hypothesis anyway, I haven't got so far as to produce measurement data for it but I sure can hear the difference.
This could be worrying, if you can prove the hypothesis.
However, with all the rf out there up to GHz - the computer could only be a worry as the smps are lower in frequency and could likely easier produce audible interference, also because of proximity, with any audio signal.
I can however say based on my only anecdotal listening experience that a well produced CD sounds as good with all depth cues from the HDD as from a cd player.
I did not sell my pioneer player, and keep an old but well working Quad chain (405/33)
packed away as backup. I might be enthusiastic but not all foolish.
Im glad the discussion is getting more civil now
Back on topic, i see you guys are debating on whether PC DACs are compromised by E&M waves cause by the PC. While this discussion can be relevant, it wasnt exactly where i wanted the discussion to go to. One can simply have an external DAC for cheap connected via USB and avoid all E&M issues (that might or might not be a problem).
The was i see it, a CD player is essentially a digital source (CD) plus a DAC.
A media center PC is essential a digital source. add an external DAC and you have a similar setup.
However, a CD as a digital source just doesnt make sense to me. it skips, it scratches, it holds very little information. It is unreliable in grabbing information in real time unless one invests thousands of dollars for highly precise reading instrumentation. To me, it seems one essentially pays big bucks for a crappy digital source and an amazing DAC. Why not just buy the same amazing DAC for much cheaper and buy a better source? A media server PC is vastly superior to a CD player in terms of being a purely digital source. Holds more content, bit-for-bit perfect
$2000 for a CD player or
$1000 for media server PC. $1000 for external DAC. best of both worlds...
Honestly, i think laziness to learn is not a serious answer. this is a DIY forum...we're supposed to have the best.
Back on topic, i see you guys are debating on whether PC DACs are compromised by E&M waves cause by the PC. While this discussion can be relevant, it wasnt exactly where i wanted the discussion to go to. One can simply have an external DAC for cheap connected via USB and avoid all E&M issues (that might or might not be a problem).
The was i see it, a CD player is essentially a digital source (CD) plus a DAC.
A media center PC is essential a digital source. add an external DAC and you have a similar setup.
However, a CD as a digital source just doesnt make sense to me. it skips, it scratches, it holds very little information. It is unreliable in grabbing information in real time unless one invests thousands of dollars for highly precise reading instrumentation. To me, it seems one essentially pays big bucks for a crappy digital source and an amazing DAC. Why not just buy the same amazing DAC for much cheaper and buy a better source? A media server PC is vastly superior to a CD player in terms of being a purely digital source. Holds more content, bit-for-bit perfect
$2000 for a CD player or
$1000 for media server PC. $1000 for external DAC. best of both worlds...
Honestly, i think laziness to learn is not a serious answer. this is a DIY forum...we're supposed to have the best.
Interesting that my listening experience over the past couple of days is that since my most recent improvements, the greatest orchestral CD (previously a position held by RR's Rakmaninov Symphonic Dances) doesn't sound noticeably better. But some I'd previously considered more average quality do. Puzzling.
It even made me wonder for a moment whether RR are putting some kind of HDCD magic onto their standard disks.
This might be a problem because a USB cable is one good conduit for RF noise. Then you might be concerned about the transmission method and clock regeneration of your USB DAC. But only might....
zyren
The USB route has significant problems. There are many threads elsewhere where much better results have been obtained by using a HiFace converter between USB out and SPDIF in of a typical DAC. There have also been many
reports of even better performance when a special 3.6V lithium battery is used to supply the critical areas of the HiFace,(jkeny modification) instead of the USB derived power.
Some cheap laptops are particularly poor in this area.
SandyK
It sure is.......my Diy experience is in speaker building.
Again......the OP question was why.....As I said, some people dont do puters, I answered the question thats all.....they do music. If thats your thing fine.....just dont ask why we all dont do it.....you build your own speaks??
If so great..... again, just dont ask why all people dont, you'll get reasons.
In my world I just dont see why everybody doesnt own routers and table saws....spray guns with compressors....paint booths....etc.
It would be darn right stupid if you dont to get the results I do.......
I just cant figure it out....
Again......the OP question was why.....As I said, some people dont do puters, I answered the question thats all.....they do music. If thats your thing fine.....just dont ask why we all dont do it.....you build your own speaks??
If so great..... again, just dont ask why all people dont, you'll get reasons.
In my world I just dont see why everybody doesnt own routers and table saws....spray guns with compressors....paint booths....etc.
It would be darn right stupid if you dont to get the results I do.......
I just cant figure it out....
Do you have any links that i can read up on? I am not that knowledgeable with jitter and clock synchronization problems with DACs, but i know for a fact that it takes some serious noise for bit corruption via USB which pretty much never happens unless you run long cables. I just did a test where i transferred ~12gb of data and did a checksum and got 0 errors. This was from a cheap monoprice USB cable thats 6ft long. 12gb bit for bit. Im sure i can do continuous tests to find a rough estimate of error but the probability of an incorrect bit is extremely low.
Power Tools and Music Servers
I think most of us would choose to use power tools for the sake of convenience and expediency, obtaining a result as good as if not better than a master craftsman doing the same project all by hand. So, using the same logic, why not use the arguably better and more convenient method of digital playback?
Having the digital source separate from the dac makes good sense to me. One can change the dac easily and one does not have to purchase another cd player. Moreover, the transport mechanism, be it Philipps, Sony or Teac, is usually a pretty inexpensive part of the player. Even the CD Pro family from Philipps is essentially the common CDM 12 components housed in a metal enclosure. I do use a cd transport built from a kit, but it is used infrequently and more for friends to play their cds here, but the computer based system sounds better to me and is certainly much more convenient than searching through a thousand cds to find the one I want. I really do believe with the advancements in computer playback and the ability to purchase digital music by downloading, the traditional cd player's days are numbered.
Good question but not definitive. Why don't master furniture makers in Japan, for example, not universally use power tools and modern finishing equipment, but use handsaws, planers and brush applied lacquer? Is the end result better or worse, for lack of modern tools? I think it may boil down to subjective personal preference.
I think most of us would choose to use power tools for the sake of convenience and expediency, obtaining a result as good as if not better than a master craftsman doing the same project all by hand. So, using the same logic, why not use the arguably better and more convenient method of digital playback?
Having the digital source separate from the dac makes good sense to me. One can change the dac easily and one does not have to purchase another cd player. Moreover, the transport mechanism, be it Philipps, Sony or Teac, is usually a pretty inexpensive part of the player. Even the CD Pro family from Philipps is essentially the common CDM 12 components housed in a metal enclosure. I do use a cd transport built from a kit, but it is used infrequently and more for friends to play their cds here, but the computer based system sounds better to me and is certainly much more convenient than searching through a thousand cds to find the one I want. I really do believe with the advancements in computer playback and the ability to purchase digital music by downloading, the traditional cd player's days are numbered.
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