Positive result??? What positive result? When? Where?
They think its a "positive" thing to believe there is difference in cables and we are "negative" for not believing...Hmmm, Its a perfect example of their needs outweighing any sort of common sense and any questions that should be asked like the most famous question of all....
If its extremely easy for them to spot the difference (Something in the audiable sound field has changed) then why doesnt any measurements show this since its already proven that we have enough measurements to cover ALL changes in sound.
This is a hard pill to swallow for some but to err is to be human.
I only hear or perceive silence.
But at the end of the day if I have a belief that cables make a significant difference to my sound and my aural experiences back this up, I have no interest in any strange ideas that go completely against what I know for sure from personnal experience. What goes on in these crazy DBTs is worlds away from the reality of my everyday listening. Ignorance is audio bliss.
Yes, we know
It's all these oppressed, victimized, poorly motivated folks have. Belief.
You know, the same victims who sneer at folks with "cheap" "Mid-Fi" components, connected with <$5000 non-"good" ICs, yielding "low resolution/resolvingness" sound, suitable for their "deafness" of apparitions....
Now I completely understand why you have argued from a very specific but confusing position..
1. Do you have any audio science knowledge at all. Built a speaker or an amp? I do not know if you have any background or you are just here to argue semantics.
2. If you are not even a buyer of the products then I have to ask what horse to you have in this race? There has to be a reason for your activitie in this thread.
My reason is simply. Im waiting for someone to actually prove the differences then I can spend more money!!!
Until then Im going to keep asking people to step up and do proper testing and get some measurements before they post any conclusions about any cables.
I wouldn't use measurements here as with all measurements there are resolution limits. No two cables can be absolutely exactly the same but the differences can be unmeasureable. So I would cut the believers some slack here because the issue is not whether there are differences but whether these differences are audible. The only time the signal is exactly the same is when nothing is touched but the person believes that something has changed, even then there will be some changes due to temperature humidity mains voltage etc etc maybe un-measurable.
I am nitpicking for sure and I too have a problem with the magnitude of the claimed differences and I agree with you that whatever desensitising factors a DBT may introduce, the huge differences claimed by some should still be loud and clear during a blind test.
So the fact of the matter seems to be that the differences are so minute that the slightest thing can render them in-audible. These cable effects are at the very limits of our hearing's resolution and so are of no practical use, as we never know for sure if we can hear them or not. You could be right in the morning and wrong at night. Better off to move the loudspeakers slightly.
I am away for a few days happy listening.
Taking the AJ/numbertwins tact, SY? I don't myself understand how the high school 'jockisms' or permitting the endless stream of empty personal abuse from 'your side' - while simultaneously acting forcefully against the opposite in like circumstance - has anything to do with science or honest debate but it does serve as an illustrative lesson for others on the nature of integrity. Have at it.
Nice, how many op-amps in the circuit?
Maybe instead of reading books we should all sit down and listen, and listen again?
Listening carefully may well develop the senses, reading too many books may well cloud the mind...?
Cheers,
Hi,
What I find odd is that the most vociferous voices keep coming from that other side.
Strong belief maybe?
Without actual proof of either perceiving or hearing according to the, no doubt written for the occasion, dictionary what gives you the right to play judge?
Where is your proof anyways?
I hear, I percieve, I think, I imagine and most of all I have an ego that may be shot to pieces one of these days, won't you think.
Maybe some do not think at all.....
Cheers,
The same sort of relentless effort you poor victimized believers put into this snapshot 15,000 post thread, defending your faith.
Right. No motivation by the believers whatsoever. 30yrs of vociferous claims and 15,000 posts later
Positive result??? What positive result? When? Where?
What I find odd is that the most vociferous voices keep coming from that other side.
Strong belief maybe?
Without actual proof of either perceiving or hearing according to the, no doubt written for the occasion, dictionary what gives you the right to play judge?
Where is your proof anyways?
I hear, I percieve, I think, I imagine and most of all I have an ego that may be shot to pieces one of these days, won't you think.
Maybe some do not think at all.....
Cheers,
Hi,
I really refuse to understand this position, it is based on what exactly? Capitalism rules?
Really?
Discrimination? Really?
Doug, young and ignorant puppy, shall we tell you how capitalism will fail and how extreme socialism feeds the extreme right?
This is not about me taking a political stand but you bringing political arguments to table.
No son, you're not allowed to do so. Against the rules. Shame.
Cable anyone?
I really refuse to understand this position, it is based on what exactly? Capitalism rules?
Really?
Discrimination? Really?
Doug, young and ignorant puppy, shall we tell you how capitalism will fail and how extreme socialism feeds the extreme right?
This is not about me taking a political stand but you bringing political arguments to table.
No son, you're not allowed to do so. Against the rules. Shame.
Cable anyone?
This is a hard pill to swallow for some but to err is to be human.
I only hear or perceive silence.
But at the end of the day if I have a belief that cables make a significant difference to my sound and my aural experiences back this up, I have no interest in any strange ideas that go completely against what I know for sure from personnal experience. What goes on in these crazy DBTs is worlds away from the reality of my everyday listening. Ignorance is audio bliss.
Very good post. That is precisely how I feel about. What does one have to do with the other? Anyone serious about their equipment should have this attitude. IMO of course.
I have already given my experience before a few times, dunno if you want me to repeat it? As there is always a new roster of participants as it evolves, maybe you do...??
Hey! boconnor, brett and myself could always set up a new test and report back to youse all haha, would that be of help to anyone?? I promise not to drop weighted hints to them that they will be called deluded if they think they hear something therefore tainting the test!!
Anyway, I was shocked (quite literally) that 'they were the same'. Of course I always 'knew' they would be the same, but when I heard that they WERE 'the same'-or as close as 'forget it'-it was a shock.That is what amuses me the most about it all, that given my thoughts on the matter I was still able to be shocked.
Are you serious?? Your line of 'attack' now against dbts is that somehow in these tests the tester is browbeating the testee??? Come on. Some of the points you raise are excellent, but you seem more and more lately to resort to high school debating putdowns and ludicrous points like this.
I'll ask you, do you think Tom has been browbeaten and feels he is a fool?, or do you think he feels just as confident now that he can hear cables as he ever was.
You have not been reading brookes recent posts?? It's funny, you can only ever see the mistakes that the opposing team makes in a game, when our team gets pulled up then of course it is poor refereeing ain't it. In the last few days I have been notified by him that my system is much worse than Toms and that I have cloth ears. Have we not been recommended to consult a psychiatrist?
It does not pay to do selective reading. And I find this last comment of yours even more curious given the previous one.
Truth should not be a "team" sport.
Meh, where's the fun in that? Still, applying your thoughts just then, I wonder why RDF 'only' sees perceived insults from one side, and misses completely the same from his, in conjunction with little or no contribution from some.
Going further with the sports analogy, there are a few on his side which should be dumped...sent back to the juniors.
Meh, where's the fun in that? Still, applying your thoughts just then, I wonder why RDF 'only' sees perceived insults from one side, and misses completely the same from his, in conjunction with little or no contribution from some.
Going further with the sports analogy, there are a few on his side which should be dumped...sent back to the juniors.
Hi,
Quite often people accuse other people to be guilty of their own mistakes.
Human nature.
Cheers,
And sometimes they are dead on balls accurate.
Hi,
Was it scientists that proved the earth wasn't as flat they thought it was?
Cheers,
P.S. Frank 3 opposition nil. More arrows on this sleeve.
Was it scientists that proved the earth wasn't as flat they thought it was?
Cheers,
P.S. Frank 3 opposition nil. More arrows on this sleeve.
Hi,
Was it scientists that proved the earth wasn't as flat they thought it was?
Cheers,
P.S. Frank 3 opposition nil. More arrows on this sleeve.
Explorers?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.