What about the three wires in series in a DBT using a switching box?Does this say anything about the results of such infamous "tests" ?
Not logical.
All but the DUT wires remain constant. The DUTs may be "different" and we ae looking for differences.
Difference?
Hi Bud
I wouldn't want to speculate on something like that other than if, as you say, there is a difference in Ω/100' between the two, I'd guess the audible difference might be lower level through the lossier wire if the difference in length used between the two is significant.
John L.
Hi Bud
I wouldn't want to speculate on something like that other than if, as you say, there is a difference in Ω/100' between the two, I'd guess the audible difference might be lower level through the lossier wire if the difference in length used between the two is significant.
John L.
None of the cables under test retain their true performance with two other cables in line.You just can't know which is your known cable under such conditions.You may know very well the paint color you like for your house walls,but if I mix two different colors in it,then there is no way you can tell which is your favorite color next to a similar tone one,mixed with the same additional colors in it.
Well, if the cables modify the sound each in their own way, and the DBT presents each cable with the same sound, the difference if any should come out.
Your paint analogy is flawed. If I have a base paint, and I mix it with either of two mix paints that may or may not be the same, I get a difference in result if the two mix paints are different.
jd
I'm not sure about that.I think it will depend on the level of influence of the extra cables.The stronger their influence,the more they will mask differences between cables under test.Surely,a switching box+switches+extra wires inside and outside,cannot be regarded transparent enough for a serious test,especially when we are trying to hear small differences.
If my system for example responds the way it does so that I can have a firm preference of a cable over a close performing one,I cannot be sure that my system will respond the same way with three cables inline,plus switches,box internal wires etc.....So,it is not just the difference that will be caused equally on both cables under test,it is also the way the whole system will react.
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potential anecdotal problems
When you are detecting small cable differences with your trained ear, do you control the room humidity, the condition of your sinus cavities, the temperature of the equipment, amount of ear wax present, background noise level, when you last ate, etc.
If any one of these changes between cables, your detection of a cable difference would be suspect.
When you are detecting small cable differences with your trained ear, do you control the room humidity, the condition of your sinus cavities, the temperature of the equipment, amount of ear wax present, background noise level, when you last ate, etc.
If any one of these changes between cables, your detection of a cable difference would be suspect.
I am. It's yet another way to modify the way cables are actually used and disrupt potential system interactions - RF, ground loops, etc. - to force a desired null result.
possible testing faults
shouldn't be too hard to sniff out such interactions and problems...
... maybe an oscilloscope and a multimeter could be handy???
any chance you have any data whatsoever specific to DBT cable tests demonstrating this alledged confounding, or are you just shooting from the hip as usual?
shouldn't be too hard to sniff out such interactions and problems...
... maybe an oscilloscope and a multimeter could be handy???any chance you have any data whatsoever specific to DBT cable tests demonstrating this alledged confounding, or are you just shooting from the hip as usual?
From the guy who doesn't recognize the sound of a familiar voice in different rooms, across seasons, between Q-tip sessions...... I loved your work in Memento.
Surely, even a switching box+switches+extra wires inside and outside will be undetectable; and this can be easily checked of course in a dbt test: listen to your music with and without the box etc. If you can statistically reliably detect the box etc, you have a case!
If you can't, or are not willing to do such a test, your 'Surely ...' is just 'a' personal opinion.
jd
What would interest me is to know how many wires, cables, switches, connectors etc are in your system anyway?
jd
rdf: Excuse me? Panikos and your reply to him, along with auplater's request for some data, said nothing about humidity. Of course, humidity could be important. Besides physiological effects, dielectrics absorb and release water. But you were waving your hands about ground loops and RF forcing a null result. I take it that you have no data specific to any of the ABX tests?
Like Jan, I'm still confused about why the effects of a hundred different wires and connectors between microphone and loudspeaker are completely overwhelmed by the insertion of an ABX box, but I'm probably deaf and drunk.
Like Jan, I'm still confused about why the effects of a hundred different wires and connectors between microphone and loudspeaker are completely overwhelmed by the insertion of an ABX box, but I'm probably deaf and drunk.
Again, why add potentially confounding effects for no gain if not to sabotage the protocol? Show it achieves anything, it's not my task to prove useless alterations won't do damage. Do you have any ABX proof the suggested change enhances test sensitivity? Your serve.
The humidity claim was a few posts before the one to which you replied. Think about it. By what mechanism is humidity a factor when someone swaps a cable? Does the room humidity jump double percentages in an instant?
The humidity claim was a few posts before the one to which you replied. Think about it. By what mechanism is humidity a factor when someone swaps a cable? Does the room humidity jump double percentages in an instant?
Well said RDF, much of switch-box problems was PUBLISHED 30-35 years ago. Of course, nobody (Lipshitz et al) believed us, but we heard the difference and we now take that into account when making listening comparisons. We could reliably hear the Spiegel switch-box in a blind test. I was there myself, with Peter Moncrieff, Dick Marsh, and Karen Richardson (later an audio reviewer).
To ignore our experience and that of others with the same switch-box, who stated the same problems, even with just open A and B, is unfortunate.
To ignore our experience and that of others with the same switch-box, who stated the same problems, even with just open A and B, is unfortunate.
Since I have decided which my system's cables will be,I am no longer sitting in front of my speakers to detect any differences,small or big.I only listen to music.This is one of the funny mistakes many do,they think that only thing "believers" do,is to look for cable differences all the time
Now,to answer your questions as better as I can.Yes,I control humidity not only in my room,but the entire house.I also try to be in good shape and health not just my sinus cavities or ear wax.An addition to your comments,when your blood presure is wrong,you can miss things when listening to music,that normally you wouldn't,and other similars,and one of the reasons could be what and when you ate.However,these are things we all have to worry about,for our good health and not listening to music.....only
How about you?
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