Joachim, it isn't worth it. Let us both keep on designing. I am starting to detail my new $20,000+ phono stage. Got to have something for Munich. Maybe see you then.
that's what you need for good vinyl sound?
bloody hell.
ps, how come you mention price? We have been told over and over in this thread that price 'has nothing to do with it necessarily'...or does the fact that it costs an outrageous amount mean it will be good?
Hey!, maybe we have hit upon something?
Joachim, a test in and of itself does nothing. It is the person that determines whether or not he can hear what he claims.
One common theme in this entire thread? Apart from TG (where is he?, the silence bodes ill I think) we are continually back to 'nope, I will claim all I want but I do not need to take a test'.
Remember the saying about have the courage of your convictions? It works in reverse too...it tells us how much courage you have in those convictions.
Not much as far as I can see.
that's what you need for good vinyl sound?
bloody hell.
ps, how come you mention price? We have been told over and over in this thread that price 'has nothing to do with it necessarily'...or does the fact that it costs an outrageous amount mean it will be good?
Hey!, maybe we have hit upon something?
Joachim, a test in and of itself does nothing. It is the person that determines whether or not he can hear what he claims.
One common theme in this entire thread? Apart from TG (where is he?, the silence bodes ill I think) we are continually back to 'nope, I will claim all I want but I do not need to take a test'.
Remember the saying about have the courage of your convictions? It works in reverse too...it tells us how much courage you have in those convictions.
Not much as far as I can see.
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I was thinking of doing a $100,000 phono stage and personally installing it with a big party, etc. food and wine to match (hire SY as a consultant).
At that time (end of 70th, beginning of 80th) it was discovered by some that passive components produced audible differences. I was there and it was a very naive though exiting time. Where i have discomfort here is that subjective experience is condemned and some objective method is prefered over the human experience. If i whould not have the abilty to setup a system be ear i could not make good sound under show conditions.
Brian Damkroger of Stereophile compared the sound in our room at CES to the life music experience in the concert hall and said that this experience is extremely rare. (Stereophile CES Blog 2010)
I do not know Mr.Damkroger well and have not put a lot of money into adds. In fact we did not advertise for a certain time now. Could you beleave me that the cable we used played a big role in he sound we got?
Brian Damkroger of Stereophile compared the sound in our room at CES to the life music experience in the concert hall and said that this experience is extremely rare. (Stereophile CES Blog 2010)
I do not know Mr.Damkroger well and have not put a lot of money into adds. In fact we did not advertise for a certain time now. Could you beleave me that the cable we used played a big role in he sound we got?
Andre thinks this sounds even better!
I can't help but think of Romy's "expansive" TT story and the price one upmanship in the "high end" world
cheers,
AJ
John, i have no problem with that. i pray to god each day, that he sends me a perfect theory that i understand what i do. I would much prefer if everything could be explained but my experience tells me otherwise. I whould go even so far, that the most scientific oriented designers that talk the whole day how much they undrstand and can predict come up with patently bad sound most of the time.
You mean the ones willing to cough up $40 000??? I'd like them too I can assure you.
Like a crossover?? You found that new and worthy of comment?
Nope.
You pray for understanding? Think we have found the problem.
In fact i started to build loudspeakers in 1968 and by 1972 i had already found out that cables, caps and coils made a difference (i was 15 then). What i used was air core coils and MP capacitors out of washing maschines and i really could here a difference agains iron core and elcaps. At that time i had no expanation and was not searching for one. The magazines of that time said there is no difference and conventional 0.75qmm cable is perfect. All that matters was on axis linearity, so i do not think that i was much influenced by external opinion, i just could here the difference. So that passive components sound different was not new to me when Hirage at the end of the 70th published his series about the sound of passive components. Some of you whould love those German Magazines of the 60th and 70th. Everything could be measured and everything could be explained. Of cause the components of that time had perfect measurements so they sounded perfect, right ?
I did not say that i do not understand anything. What i tried to say is that scientific knowlage per se does not lead to good sound. There are simply too many factors involved (room acoustics, programm material etc.) that a single unified theory can capture that.
I studied telecomunications, furniture design, exhibition design and philosophie, so got a fair share of scietific training. It is just not enough in the real world i found. What you need as a professional Audio Designer is flexibilty and curiosity. I said that before and i say it again: the life versus recorded experiments done in England in the 50th and 60th proved that HiFI is indistinguishable from the life source. When Edisons cilinder came out the "science" magazines of that day said they could not distinguish the sound from the cilinder to a life sound so mesmerised they where. HiFI is still so remote from the life experience that we so far have not acceaved much more. Under thoose circumstances to speak about a proces that proves fidelity is ilusionary.
I did not say that i do not understand anything. What i tried to say is that scientific knowlage per se does not lead to good sound. There are simply too many factors involved (room acoustics, programm material etc.) that a single unified theory can capture that.
I studied telecomunications, furniture design, exhibition design and philosophie, so got a fair share of scietific training. It is just not enough in the real world i found. What you need as a professional Audio Designer is flexibilty and curiosity. I said that before and i say it again: the life versus recorded experiments done in England in the 50th and 60th proved that HiFI is indistinguishable from the life source. When Edisons cilinder came out the "science" magazines of that day said they could not distinguish the sound from the cilinder to a life sound so mesmerised they where. HiFI is still so remote from the life experience that we so far have not acceaved much more. Under thoose circumstances to speak about a proces that proves fidelity is ilusionary.
In a larger sense you may be right. But we are talking about cables here. Just measure the signal before and after the cable. Easy as that.
Well, that explains it. Go out and pick up a high school physics text book, a psychology and/or psycho-acoustics hand book and begin learning about sound waves...and their perception.
That would be a start.
cheers,
AJ
Well, Joachim, I studied guitar, ballet, philosophy, electronic engineering, physics, in that order. I am still learning subtle points of engineering design, every day, and this has been so for the last 40+ years. I wish that I was better at running a business. I was in Europe when Jean Hiraga's article on cables came out. It was impressive! Do you have a copy? I think that it was 'Revue du Son' or maybe 'Hi Fi News'. Maybe both.
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