Just got back from a casual 50k fixie ride.
Micheal Shermer writes about his similar x10 experience as a RAMM rider. If I recall he was into alien visitations and abduction paranoia by day two on the bike.In my experience at high stress levels people shut down, panic and freeze. Stress is a well know tinnitus trigger so it's hardly pixie dust to raise the potential of a connection.
que? Hang, let me make sure here (as you seem to be particularly sensitive to me misrepresenting things...one of my hates to btw so please, always pick me up if I do ok?) I made the accusation that was 'all you said'???
Yet, what I actually wrote was we have been told repeatedly recently that dbts CANNOT be passed by their very design!!
Hmm. And it is you that accuses me of misrepresentation?
Have I especially managed to **** you off RDF? If so, sorry. I value the reasoned contributions of yours..well at times they are, sometimes like this you accuse me of the things you are actually doing,...but nonetheless I apologise for hwatever it is I have done.
In any case, back to the essential point here, do you now disagree that recently some (most particularly john curl) have explicitly stated that they need to see the cable to hear the cable? and that dbt by it's nature cannot be passed? If so, does that NOT fly against what was written by dbe (I think it was)???
If the above is true, then help me out here. What did I say that was incorrect?
Maybe you can put a sense of order into it. Are dbt's doomed or do they have a place?
tHEY CAN BE PASSED OR NEVER CAN BE PASSED. (****, sorry)
We can determine scientifically or not that cables are audible or not.
We have had polar opposite views on all of that in the last few pages.
Seems you may be the only one who can work it out for us?
I admit I can't, so you have already won that debating point before you start (congrats)
FFS Dude.
My response was aimed at SY who it seems to me to be somewhat of an expert in DBT. So RELATIVE to him, I "dont know much about blind tests". Since he was the one asking I decided it was worth being as humble on that point as possible.
(Do you EVER consider things in context?)
However!! I know enough about psychology and creating a variety of tests OTHER than DBT to know when psychology is an influence.
Creating tests that minimize/eliminate the psycological impact happens to be something my profession deals alot with. In physiology, especially as it relates to human performance, the whole Mind/Body relationship is kinda foundational.
Will you seriously get off it now? I know it may be a little difficult for someone like you, who clearly has all the answers, to understand this. But some of us out here and in other fields do have a few synapses firing.
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Yeah, you would think. I offer a 100% money back guarantee on all of my products. I do not make power cords for retail sale anymore just for personal use and select customers that will not buy anything else. You would think ajinfla would be a little more current on his slights. I have had 1 refund in my last 223 transactions.I doubt very seriously that you will find anyone that has purchased cables that are unhappy with their purchases. They would have returned them if they were not happy with them don't you think
Dave
Would you consider your casual listening, where you saw and knew the cable changes, then heard (seemingly) unexplainable differences, to be one of those?
It's like whack-a-mole trying to sort it all out
Yep, sometimes you are the mole, sometimes you are the hammer
Just got back from a casual 50k fixie ride.
In my experience at high stress levels people shut down, panic and freeze. Stress is a well know tinnitus trigger so it's hardly pixie dust to raise the potential of a connection.
Fixed gear is not for the faint of heart. I had a track bike for about 3 months some years ago. The lack of brakes coupled with New Mexico drivers was a little too much for me to handle. I had a wife and 2 daughters to provide for. Somehow it makes even less sense now that I can barely push this once athletic frame up the hills anymore. I am loving my mountain bike with street tires
I keep threatening to get back in shape and then the pain comes. I loved being in shape, but at my old age I HATE getting in shape. The 300 mile weeks are just a memory... I think.
The RAAM guys were my idols. I remember talking to Pete Pensyres and asking him what it took to do that ride year after year. He told me that it was helpful to be off your anti-psychotic medications for a month or two. I think he was only half kidding.
Physical and psychological stress is a field that is revealing much more data now due to PTSD and other stressors prevalent in our culture. It is amazing to me just how little it takes to skew perception.
Dave
I didn't say they were (seemingly) unexplained. Champ did.
I said they could be easily explained, given the conditions.
Is strenuous athletic activity, which can stress your body/mind to the point of hallucination, really relevant to sitting in a comfortable chair, with a beer, listening to music? Even if someone keeps asking you questions about what you hear?
And seriously, if the differences are so small that a little stress obscures them, will I be able to enjoy my shiny new cables when I have had a crappy day at work, or my wife is pissed off? How relaxed will have to be to enjoy their addition to my system?
Your state of mind is very important, (in my experience) to the enjoyment of music. But, this whole 'stress of listening' thing seemed kinda specious from the beginning. This trend of trying to link it to the effects of endorphin and adrenalin addled athletes, at a state of near exhaustion, is just silly.
Eric
And seriously, if the differences are so small that a little stress obscures them, will I be able to enjoy my shiny new cables when I have had a crappy day at work, or my wife is pissed off? How relaxed will have to be to enjoy their addition to my system?
Your state of mind is very important, (in my experience) to the enjoyment of music. But, this whole 'stress of listening' thing seemed kinda specious from the beginning. This trend of trying to link it to the effects of endorphin and adrenalin addled athletes, at a state of near exhaustion, is just silly.
Eric
This whole stress thing seems selective to me. From what I have read about it some people do much better under stress or in testing and some do worse. I have always been a person that does better in testing than in everyday busy work - at least in school - because it somehow seemed more "real" to me when taking a test than during the normal week when you were expected to just repeat something you have learned over and over.
If it is in fact a big issue with this situation then why not use someone who is more on the fence? Or basically someone who isn't invested in the outcome because they haven't bought expensive cables or sworn to hear a difference. There has to be someone besides me who is in the "I don't know" camp.
If it is in fact a big issue with this situation then why not use someone who is more on the fence? Or basically someone who isn't invested in the outcome because they haven't bought expensive cables or sworn to hear a difference. There has to be someone besides me who is in the "I don't know" camp.
Didn't Pensyres start the whole 'cycling risks male impotency' thing? The general press latched onto it, ignoring little details like finishing his grueling weekly training regimen by taking a 400 mile detour on his Friday ride home from work. For me the 70+ four man team event is a constant inspiration. That's because if you were still competing 15 years ago I'm probably on the wrong side of your age. Front brakes are my friend, I'm not crazy.
BTW, I can't help but sense there's some hidden history between you and AJ, as if not all details or parts expressed.
Eric, a bad day at work can ruin a good meal. Magnitude of the effect is a good point, and DBTs so far do make a statement about it. 'Is there an effect' comes before 'is the effect worth the bother'. The latter is a value judgment. To bore once again with what some claim is the care required for a proper DBT, from Brad Meyer's talk to the Boston Audio Society:
Yep. The penile numbness that accompanies poor position and too many miles is not funny. I had a transitory case (2 weeks) that had my wife looking at me very strangely. Thankfully, for Gayle and I both, it was only a temporary condition. There have been cyclists that have suffered permanent damage. BummerDidn't Pensyres start the whole 'cycling risks male impotency' thing? The general press latched onto it, ignoring little details like finishing his grueling weekly training regimen by taking a 400 mile detour on his Friday ride home from work. For me the 70+ four man team event is a constant inspiration. That's because if you were still competing 15 years ago I'm probably on the wrong side of your age. Front brakes are my friend, I'm not crazy.
BTW, I can't help but sense there's some hidden history between you and AJ, as if not all details or parts expressed.
I used to get a kick out of Doc Westphal riding 40K time trials when he was over 80. I always thought that a great way to go would be to be hit from behind by a semi as I crossed the finish line with my arms over my head at age 100. May be still...
Ajinfla and I have a history that goes back for years. If you accept the circular continuum theory, he and I are on opposite sides. That would be in the experience, opinion and demeanor areas. I just don't understand the hate and derision parts in his portion of the circle.
Toodles,
Dave
we went over this last time you posted it. and you got all huffy about it, decided you no longer wanted to discuss it.
and now you bring it back?
Is that why you got the shites with me?? Cause I took you up on it last time??
The knowledge had by the testers affected the outcome from the testees, which is why he used the example.
To show how results/tests gets mucked up, and why we need it double blind.
hope you have better luck than I did with this.
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