Au contraire. Intolerance is the least problem for many of the self-styled rationalists here. Any test, no matter what conditions, that supports the 'right' conclusion is welcomed with open arms. Has any test returning a null ever caused issue with the 'rationalists'? An administrator predisposed to result 'A', group tests subjects predisposed to result 'A', and coaches them in advance to expect result 'A'? Absolutely. 'Solder' coat hangers into speaker cables and silently swap them in during a blind test? Bring it on. SACD players that aren't capable of SACD resolution used in tests of SACD? Thank you sir, can I please have another? Heck, even the lack of peer-reviewed, journal published cable DTBs isn't a hindrance, it's been 'proven' thousands of times' according to some.
Such is the devotion to DBT in any form that 'rationalists' does a disservice. DBTees?
AFAIK, the people claiming non-mundane differences haven't actually done that yet; if that's not the case, may I have the cite? If that's not the case, why do you expect serious researchers to spend huge amounts of effort in something which has, to date, ZERO evidence behind it? You, of all people, know perfectly well where the burden of proof lays.
Entirely possible. In the case of sighted demonstrations, it's absolutely the case and often the SOP of "coaches."
Hi,
Beside the point but anyways....
My question to you is how you will interpret any of the results you will obtain from that test.
Moreover, do you think there's any value (scientic value that is) to a single test?
What exactly is going to be tested anyway?
The person? What about the cables themselves, measurements and exactly which ones?
Mind you, I'm all for it but in order for it to bear any value it should be repeated on several subjects etc...
Cheers,
Beside the point but anyways....
My question to you is how you will interpret any of the results you will obtain from that test.
Moreover, do you think there's any value (scientic value that is) to a single test?
What exactly is going to be tested anyway?
The person? What about the cables themselves, measurements and exactly which ones?
Mind you, I'm all for it but in order for it to bear any value it should be repeated on several subjects etc...
Cheers,
Again with the not reading my whole post for any understanding?
C'mon Man!!
The problem with a DBT test for cables is that you are not likely to find any listener who has devoted the time and experience to reach any level of discernment who has not also developed a keen sense of investment in the results of the performance.
This isnt like deciding that Coke tastes better than Pepsi or that expensive wines taste better than cheap ones.
Like it or not, at the exact moment that someone says "Prove it" in ANY matter there starts a chemical reaction in the body. Things that were otherwise loose and relaxed start to become rigid. And, Yes, this includes the muscles that control the eardrum.
So, yes, pressure can be a factor. No, it was not adequately dispelled.
Or maybe you think you know more about the physiology of performance (of any kind) than I do?
(I dont recall ever calling into question your expertise. Matter of fact I think I've only ever praised it.)
Hi,
It won't be a first to me but I think the idea of peer tests is worth spreading no matter what the endresult of this one is going to be.
IOW, I think it would be wortwhile, especially given the international nature of the community, for people with an interest in audio to test themselves against a given set of protocols and document their findings accordingly.
It may save the forum 999 pages of...whatever.
Oh, BTW, will the cables under test be just the testee's cables or will they be cables with matched LCR params?
Cheers,
It won't be a first to me but I think the idea of peer tests is worth spreading no matter what the endresult of this one is going to be.
IOW, I think it would be wortwhile, especially given the international nature of the community, for people with an interest in audio to test themselves against a given set of protocols and document their findings accordingly.
It may save the forum 999 pages of...whatever.
Oh, BTW, will the cables under test be just the testee's cables or will they be cables with matched LCR params?
Cheers,
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Of course, though not exactly the point. Threading carefully, most, when they don't make the claim explicit, debate as if those tests have been done to death and the null settled. It's being treated as an article of faith.
And no, I don't agree the 'Back of SY's Head Newspaper Test' settles the pressure/distraction/influence question at all. Though I'ld be willing to administer more trials.
Testees. (No jokes about balls)
Indirectly, yes; frequency response will be checked, but given that these are interconnects, the source impedance is low, the load impedance is high, and the ICs don't appear (at least from looking at the ads) pathological, I'd expect that to be pretty constant IC to IC. But, on va voir. Or ecouter, as it were.
Hi,
O.K. Sy. Approved stamp on it and good luck to you and the poor DUT.
It's not as if the guy's asked to run for gold on the Olympics or is it?
Honnestly, if he's the kind of listener he seems to be then he should do just fine.
Best way to go about it is to enter the test as if it wasn't a test but just a game and be done with it.
He'll be lynched no matter what the outcome is anyhow.....
Cheers,
O.K. Sy. Approved stamp on it and good luck to you and the poor DUT.
It's not as if the guy's asked to run for gold on the Olympics or is it?
Honnestly, if he's the kind of listener he seems to be then he should do just fine.
Best way to go about it is to enter the test as if it wasn't a test but just a game and be done with it.
He'll be lynched no matter what the outcome is anyhow.....
Cheers,
Was gonna make a few points..but sometimes this thread goes just that little bit too fast!!
I don't agree with a lot of your points champ, but I love that you are making them.
It helps make the test that little bit more rigorous.
BUT, let's not lose sight of the test!! We have argued this stuff for a few pages....so what we need to concentrate on is applying the lessons learnt from the faults of (all and every single one it seems) dbt's in the past.
Out of curiosity....not ONE test ever was correct??
SOOoo, TG, how are your preparations going?? Please give us an update.
I find it interesting champ that you have already laid the groundwork for TG having an excuse for failure no matter how much he has prepared...after all he IS a finely tuned athlete it seems....tell me, if TG himself said before the test that he has 'mastered' the dbt procedure and is confident his powers still exist, would you then accept the failure (if that is what happens), after all you would accept the success no???
You calling me stupid?? Why would you do that? Ohh, I got it, it was beyond your expectations to think a scientologist would be part of the forum.
Anyways, water off the back and all that, so no need to stop on my account (seriously, heard it all by now) so carry on. In fact, it is rather an interesting reverse confirmation of many things said in the thread and speaks volumes for pre-existing bias.
You use that 'against' the non cable guys, and here you are exhibiting the very phenomenon you rail against.
Human nature, that is where the fascination of this thread lies...have I ever said I love the human aspect of audio??
Haha brett, love that photo. When I saw the headlines back then 'Tom makes a fool of himself' yada yada, I just groaned and shook my head.
What was interesting tho is that a year or so later I for the first time saw that segment of the oprah show, and the reality of what occurred on the show was vastly different than what you may have thought from the headlines.
It was quite appropriate and in context to the discussion at that point, and not the out of control actions of a madman as was attempted to portray by the media.
Anyway, let's get this test done. looking forward to it immensely.
SY, has any of these 'objections' or 'warnings' about test methodolgy changed your plans in any way?? or have they already been incorporated in your test.
Regarding failure under test stress (which should largely apply during their normal round of selection comparisons should they not??) what would be your advice to TG on how to best avoid it? Mine would be practice and practice, but are there any others?
I don't agree with a lot of your points champ, but I love that you are making them.
It helps make the test that little bit more rigorous.
BUT, let's not lose sight of the test!! We have argued this stuff for a few pages....so what we need to concentrate on is applying the lessons learnt from the faults of (all and every single one it seems) dbt's in the past.
Out of curiosity....not ONE test ever was correct??
SOOoo, TG, how are your preparations going?? Please give us an update.
I find it interesting champ that you have already laid the groundwork for TG having an excuse for failure no matter how much he has prepared...after all he IS a finely tuned athlete it seems....tell me, if TG himself said before the test that he has 'mastered' the dbt procedure and is confident his powers still exist, would you then accept the failure (if that is what happens), after all you would accept the success no???
You calling me stupid?? Why would you do that? Ohh, I got it, it was beyond your expectations to think a scientologist would be part of the forum.
Anyways, water off the back and all that, so no need to stop on my account (seriously, heard it all by now) so carry on. In fact, it is rather an interesting reverse confirmation of many things said in the thread and speaks volumes for pre-existing bias.
You use that 'against' the non cable guys, and here you are exhibiting the very phenomenon you rail against.
Human nature, that is where the fascination of this thread lies...have I ever said I love the human aspect of audio??
Haha brett, love that photo. When I saw the headlines back then 'Tom makes a fool of himself' yada yada, I just groaned and shook my head.
What was interesting tho is that a year or so later I for the first time saw that segment of the oprah show, and the reality of what occurred on the show was vastly different than what you may have thought from the headlines.
It was quite appropriate and in context to the discussion at that point, and not the out of control actions of a madman as was attempted to portray by the media.
Anyway, let's get this test done. looking forward to it immensely.
SY, has any of these 'objections' or 'warnings' about test methodolgy changed your plans in any way?? or have they already been incorporated in your test.
Regarding failure under test stress (which should largely apply during their normal round of selection comparisons should they not??) what would be your advice to TG on how to best avoid it? Mine would be practice and practice, but are there any others?
have you got your Fedora on?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Absolutely! I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm only hoping that my perspective can add something to the equation to perhaps make a better test. If people consider that making excuses then so be it. I expect there will be others that will see the input as being useful and maybe even constructive.
I dont think TG is as finely tuned as people may think. He's already yielded clues with stories of being sensitive to testing. But I'm still hoping for a test that yields something people can learn from. Positive or negative.
Actually, I did consider that but after the fact and while being distracted by other things. I'm really not in the habit of intentionally offending people I dont know. It was more reactionary to other posts. Not completely from a position of ignorance as I have acquaintance with members of the church though admittedly still biased because of them only. So still inappropriate here and I do apologize non-the-less.
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Practice of the actual procedure is beneficial, of course.
But if it were me I'd be practicing relaxation techniques. Sometimes getting worked up into a frenzy is a good thing. Its basically calling into action the Fight or Flight mechanism which can help performance. But not here.
For this scenario I would think it best to be able to relax and isolate. And by isolate I mean to treat each trial as a singular unit rather than one part of a whole. Ya know, "focus on the game at hand" sort of stuff.
I know I come from a different background but relaxing and focusing for performance is not as easy as it may seem. In athletics, it is in fact what separates the elite from the also rans.
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It could be. You'd be suprised. I'm hoping against that scenario. And mentioning these things now so that it can be planned for.
One of the greatest Canadian speedskaters of all time is a guy you'll never hear about. Absolutely brilliant in the comfort of practice. Absolutely abysmal during competition of any consequence.
TG should be practicing under unfamiliar circumstances. Changing things up as much as possible. Anything that will force him to engage relaxation techniques on the spot.
Everyone, under real pressure, my mind goes CLEAR and I have almost perfect recall memory. A'd a lot of finals in college, that way. No, the ABX test is a different kind of test, and the mind goes into 'survival' mode, rather than noting subtlety. It is impressive how ignorant so many of you are, even those how know me personally.
Indeed, as I would expect given background.
There are manifest differences considering what systems the mind/body must call upon. And one does not always translate to another.
I hope I did not offend by using you as an example John. Did not mean to imply that you weren't good under pressure in any circumstance. I should have been more explicit.
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