Just slightly off topic, my apologies 
HI-FI WORLD - OLDE WORLDE - YAMAHA NS1000M LOUDSPEAKER
Give it a little read & you'll soon realise thar tweeters that have no breakup modes until 27Khz make class B amplifiers sound like crud due to crossover distortion creating higher harmonics. Feed it a nice class A amplifier & nirvana is approached Most people in the UK were using class B amps feeding soft dome tweeters, these nicely covered up the aforementioned harmonic distortions. When faced with the NS's there amplifiers tended to be shown up for exactly what they were
Anyway, back to the cables
I'd say it's the sums of the parts creating more than the whole.
I can go along with that given certain circumstancesSometimes different combinations of components simply sound better together. Sure its not magic, but if it were easy, it would happen more often too.
It is just the aural focus of a great system. Everything seems to come into focus and the music is just more "real", palatable and engaging.
It is of course something electrical that allows everything to "meld" and come into a better state of acoustic focus, but it is not obvious to the average person why, and I have yet to see "studies" done when it seems to happen either
Here's a damn near perfect example of what works & what doesn't & why
HI-FI WORLD - OLDE WORLDE - YAMAHA NS1000M LOUDSPEAKER
Give it a little read & you'll soon realise thar tweeters that have no breakup modes until 27Khz make class B amplifiers sound like crud due to crossover distortion creating higher harmonics. Feed it a nice class A amplifier & nirvana is approached
Most people in the UK were using class B amps feeding soft dome tweeters, these nicely covered up the aforementioned harmonic distortions. When faced with the NS's there amplifiers tended to be shown up for exactly what they were
Anyway, back to the cables
Depends on how you listen to music and what is important to you. I have done enough comparative testing to know what to listen for, once you've learned that, it get much easier to hear differences.
I didn't say that.
R e l a x Terry, I was pulling your finger with the "wife in the kitchen" part.
No, a link perhaps.
No, was after the dbt symbol, not the cable believers symbol.
oohh, feel my sense of humour coming back.
Glad you see the humour in your remark or else it would have been a contradiction.
Hi tubeguy. Pleased on both points.
Understood.
People may just leave out info to win an argument, but they may honestly believe it is irrelevant. I think that someone who wants to find, or expose the truth has an agenda, and they could be on either side. If someone doesn't have strong beliefs either way, they may still enjoy debating or joining in what rdf earlier called a social game, and to stimulate a good debate would be their agenda. I think it is just the way the world is.
I don't know about 'at all costs', but sure I want my beliefs to be correct.
What you seem to be saying is that the opponents of cable sound have "jumped the gun" as all the evidence is not in yet. How much evidence would the opponents of cable sound need to realise (know) that their beliefs were wrong? In fact very little, all they would need is the proof that at least one person can hear cable differences on sound alone. Pretty simple as far as I can see but I am no seer.
cheers
Well that's how I prefer to go into a movie or listening to an album. Avatar is a good example for me since my friend went into the theater thinking he was going to hate it. He ended up loving it and then hyping it up way too much when telling me to see it. So by the time he was done hyping it up me simply not agreeing that is the best movie ever made is somehow me being overly critical lol. Anyway I hate spoilers and previews of any kind. Telling me the tiniest thing can give away an entire movie and make it too predictable in my experience.
I am the same, usually the movies that blow me away are the ones that I had no knowledge of before viewing. So I also hate 'spoilers', I have been disapointed too many times. I have also hyped up movies to friends who after seeing it say, "that was the worst movie I have ever seen". I must learnt to keep my big mouth shut!
Yes,it reminds me of a joke with a girl who used to work in the cinema showing people their sits and taking some tips.A guy came and the girl showed him where to sit,but although she was waiting for her tip,the guy pretended he did not understand why she was standing by his side.She waited for a few minutes and then bowed and whispered in his ear:"The killer is the doctor".....
I used to think that cables should not make any difference. This is based on a hypothetical standpoint that wires are simple conductors. However, looking closely on cable geometries and materials, electrical parameters such as inductance, capacitance etc are created which affects audio signal and quality.
Correct, and this is not disputed. What is questioned is whether this is audible with any reasonably engineered cable.
jd
Hello Janneman.
Well before we could ever begin discussing whether or not sonic differences are audible between one wire and another, we'd have to know precisely what your standard is for a "properly" or "reasonably" engineered wire of each type i.e., IC, speaker wire & power cord is and how you came to determine these are the standards to be used for each specific wire type!
Without this knowledge beforehand it would be to easy for you and others to start dismissing any and all tests wherein sonic differences were proven to exist by simply claiming one of the wires used wasn't a "properly" or "reasonably" engineered wire! Therefore I'd like to ask you to tell me specifically what a "properly" or "reasonably" engineered wire is for:
- an interconnect
- speaker wires
- a power cord
What constitutes the standard for ICs? Is it the cheap ICs that comes with audio components? What about speaker wires & power cords? Is zipcord the standard for speaker wires & power cords?
I'm not claiming these are your standard but, "if" it's true and these are indeed your standard of what a "properly" or "reasonably" engineered wire is, how did you determine they were so?
If these aren't your standards for ICs, speaker wires and power cords, what are your standards? Please explain how you came to determine what the standard for each type of wire would be and give us a specific example for each.
For Example: You might decide that these $25/pr Premium audio cable, with 24kt dual gold plated RCA connectors, triple shielded, with foamed PE insulation & low capacitance, as seen here; Analog Stereo Audio Cables, Premium design, dual gold plated RCA connectors, triple shielded, Foamed PE Insulation and low capacitance. are a "properly" or "reasonably" engineered wire.
Having provided the link would have given us a specific example, so I'd then ask how you came to believe this was a standard of what a "properly" or "reasonably" engineered IC was. I look forward to your response.
Thetubeguy1954
~Rational Subjectivism. It's An Acquired Taste!~
am I the only one picking up vibes that look like leading to a pull out???
c'mon TG, we're nearly there!
I'll let others answer, but I do want to point out one simple thing.
Rather than your fear that *we* will start claiming poorly engineered wire...(and BTW, if it were poorly engineered we would know by measurements and simulations..ie any audible difference is completely understood by normal EE engineering, nothing to do with cable bullfrickinshite from the manufacturers)......it really is the reverse you know.
It is the oh so confident cable believer that has never been able to tell them apart blind, and it is THEY that start on any and every excuse they can possibly imagine.
Gee, dunno....maybe for example Jon Risch's little excuse package??
Or heck, cut straight to the chase, and just admit we cannot tell them apart blind, and blame 'DBT' as we have seen John Curl proudly do recently. Just admit 'we need to see them to hear them, but really it is 'dbt' that is at fault'.
Why do you think many of us have urged you repeatedly to get very acquainted with the methodology?? So that YOU cannot come back later with the lame 'it was the testing methodology that caused my keen abilities to be blunted on the day'.
Please, just get in and start testing with your friends etc etc, and (for now) stop trying to propose that we will start making excuses.
that is not our traditional job, it is the other camps job.
just think of it as a union work issue and it will become clear!
c'mon TG, we're nearly there!
I'll let others answer, but I do want to point out one simple thing.
Rather than your fear that *we* will start claiming poorly engineered wire...(and BTW, if it were poorly engineered we would know by measurements and simulations..ie any audible difference is completely understood by normal EE engineering, nothing to do with cable bullfrickinshite from the manufacturers)......it really is the reverse you know.
It is the oh so confident cable believer that has never been able to tell them apart blind, and it is THEY that start on any and every excuse they can possibly imagine.
Gee, dunno....maybe for example Jon Risch's little excuse package??
Or heck, cut straight to the chase, and just admit we cannot tell them apart blind, and blame 'DBT' as we have seen John Curl proudly do recently. Just admit 'we need to see them to hear them, but really it is 'dbt' that is at fault'.
Why do you think many of us have urged you repeatedly to get very acquainted with the methodology?? So that YOU cannot come back later with the lame 'it was the testing methodology that caused my keen abilities to be blunted on the day'.
Please, just get in and start testing with your friends etc etc, and (for now) stop trying to propose that we will start making excuses.
that is not our traditional job, it is the other camps job.
just think of it as a union work issue and it will become clear!
I didn't get to reading all of Jon Risch's DBT criticisms. But I did read the first one and to me it seems to be a very good reason that you should do the DBT. If in fact the old tests are tainted or the wires just weren't very good than it should make a modern test that much more needed and that much more easy to pass. You yourself were not a one that believed in Cable differences until you heard the right cable TG don't forget that.
I read Jon Risch's DBT criticisms that Tubeguy kindly posted and it all sounded pretty reasonable. Though I don't quite know what do do with his two modes of listening ie relaxed emotional versus critical. Anyway I believe that Tubeguy is a man of his word and he will do the tests, and may very well surprise us all.
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