Sy,
This not solely a mantra of people that sell audio components. It is also shared by people that buy components as well as those that design them too. I did not make this up to satisfy an opinion or a bias. Robert Fulton in the 70's first noticed that cabling had a "sonic signature". I also understand that some do not share this sentiment. That does not mean one or the other correct, but it does show that something somewhere between the two, is not correlating.
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@ SY,
Experimentator bias at its best.
Wishes
I actually agree with SY, what would the purpose of a blind test be if you can't even hear a difference with sighted listening?
Normally I would first listen for differences with sighted listening. Once I've found differences, it is normally possible to tell which cable is used within seconds of listening, even in blind testing.
Yes, that tiresome old "evidence" thing. If someone, anyone, had actually presented evidence that wires can be distinguished solely by ear, assuming matched levels and frequency responses, and absent pathological components, then there would be no argument. But 30 years after Fulton's claim (actually, I think it goes back a few years more, maybe Hiraga?), we can list the evidence put forth by the wire peddlers, the audiophile world, the tweak magazines, and all of the people who ascribe "personality" to wire.
Here's the list of such evidence:
.
.
.
.
.
(sound of crickets chirping)
Nope, I understand that lots of people love their invisible horses, but they won't get you to town any faster than walking. Bald assertion, appeal to popularity, vague appeals to pseudo-physics, ad hom, and experience as a salesman or avid consumer doesn't make the horses real.
Could be, not sure. Mr. Hiraga certainly does (or at least did) believe in the differences. And as he was my audio mentor many years ago, I tend to trust him. After all, 3 of the 4 best sounding systems I have ever heard - he built.
They actually DID sound to me like real music played by real people on real instruments in a real space. And that was back when I worked with all the above every day.
But I'm not a big "fancy wire" guy. I like Canare or Mogami for line level and 14 gauge extension cords for speaker wire.
But that puts me in a conundrum: I have always achieved the best results by following the practices of Mr. Hiraga and his colleagues. Why shouldn't I? They built the best sounding stuff I've ever heard - and not with Voodoo but with engineering. But I have not found cables to be that big a deal. So I always feel I must be missing something.......
K von K, thanks very much for your post. Very good reading. I take it then that you find inductance to be the biggest influence on the "sound" of cables?
Certainly it is going to have an influence, perhaps the largest. Well, as long as the cables are not highly capacitive, as you point out. (note: my class-d amps seem very tolerant of large capacitive loads, maybe not all are)
Far, far back in this thread there was discussion of the multi-tone tests that showed some interesting results for different speaker wire and different amps. It would be nice to know if these results could be caused mostly by inductance differences. I'll have to go back and dig up the article.
In the tests mentioned, RF noise did seem to be a problem with compression drivers, mostly because of the very low signal levels involved. Not a problem, I would think, with most drivers.
Definetly wrong. I`m using huge wires and until this day I`ve never herard any hifi-system play as natural as mine, even if they`re way more expensive.
But be aware; the copper needs some beatin in before it opens up
Forget induction for a while, keep the wires thick & solid to decrease resistanse and all of the dirty crosstalk aso you get in multistranded wires, adding shimmer and "details" to the soundbut ruining dynamics.
No twisting, just plain solid copper gives the cleanest sound you can wish for.
I found my referance-cables decades ago. Just some cheap diy-stuff, but clean and open like nothing else.
Correct. Like real thick solid copper wires
Short is equivalent. The less, the better unless you're someone who denies the validity of superposition.
Hope that those differential equations make everyone feel better about your systems. Those zip cord connected speakers and mylar capped circuits always makes me want to get up and sing
I have no idea what you're talking about. Since evidently you have no idea what superposition is, I'll throw you a nice, free link.
Superposition Theorem : DC NETWORK ANALYSIS
I dunno, you brought up differential equations, not me. Several people on this thread have maintained that a cable's "sound" doesn't change with length. That is very suggestive...
Wow, I am going to have to stay up all night just to keep up with this thing....
answers:
1.) danielwritesbac: Audio Prism model 5 amps with O-Netics OPT's driving Planet 10 Fonken / FE127 eN full range speakers. Easily the smoothest FR, most coherent sound I have had, and this includes the original EnABL'd Ohm F drivers.
2.) Curly PM me about the OPT's. We are on the expensive side, but only one person has been disappointed, to date.
3.) Kurt von Kubik: Thank you. Excellent and very clear posts. Exactly what I am after with the Litz wire, cotton and small amounts of distributed capacitance. I do not want to hear the cables, no losses, no additions.
4.) Sy: Serious? Idiots cannot be found guilty of being serious!
Bud
answers:
1.) danielwritesbac: Audio Prism model 5 amps with O-Netics OPT's driving Planet 10 Fonken / FE127 eN full range speakers. Easily the smoothest FR, most coherent sound I have had, and this includes the original EnABL'd Ohm F drivers.
2.) Curly PM me about the OPT's. We are on the expensive side, but only one person has been disappointed, to date.
3.) Kurt von Kubik: Thank you. Excellent and very clear posts. Exactly what I am after with the Litz wire, cotton and small amounts of distributed capacitance. I do not want to hear the cables, no losses, no additions.
4.) Sy: Serious? Idiots cannot be found guilty of being serious!
Bud
Wow I thought everyone that does not listen seriously, hooks up their speakers with this type of wire. Get with the program here
Hope that those differential equations make everyone feel better about your systems. Those zip cord connected speakers and mylar capped circuits always makes me want to get up and sing
Mylar (Polyester) is a valid type of capacitor. Typically, it has a very high internal resistance (in comparison to other types), and so it can be used most appropriately whenever that is on purpose, such as in an rc network. Its specialty is a snubber.
Likewise it can also be used to bypass an electrolytic cap for whenever you'd like a mild helper without any vast changes. Of course, the effects will vary depending on the size of the cap (and a few other factors).
Example: The 0.022uF little green polyester cap from the radio shack teamed up with an Elna Cerafine will make a classic combo for your input cap (assuming you're after a bit of classic sound).
Try this on your tripath (or any similar, reasonably clean miniature bridge amp) to help it in more successfully imitating a tube amp.
A small mylar cap can be used to stop an inductor from ringing (or reduce ringing)--you can try one straight over the poles of your woofer to speed it up (directly onto the connector tabs), even if the cap is such a small value that it wouldn't affect the audio band. Of course, this is an AC snubber, which is one of the specialties of the mylar cap.
Example: The 0.22uF green polyester cap from the radio shack straight over the poles of the woofer (in addition to the regular crossover, of course). Use one per 8 ohm woofer or a tandem pair for a 4 ohm woofer. Observe the woofer and see it move faster, controlled, and delivering higher resolution with the cap in place. There's plenty of Mylar in Harbeth speakers.
There's nothing offensive about these components unless they're either installed in the wrong place or used without purpose.
They're extraordinarily resistant to sudden voltage spikes, have consistent performance, and they usually last for at least three decades.
To me, this sort of thing is more fun and more effective than trick speaker cables.
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