After undergoing turmoils and life changes, one morning I woke up without my speakers.
OK, it's maybe too dramatically said, but there's also a zest of truth in that.
I have sold my beloved, but old Spendor S100 pair and I'm quite happy about it for the moment.
Hence, I'm looking to build or acquire high sensitivity >92 dB/1W (or even better >95 dB/1W) speakers.
Funds are in the 2000 euros territory.
Skills are amateur. No speakers built as to this day. But woodwork or help could be outsourced to skilled lithuanian joiners.
System is DIY "Salas DCB1" gain unity pre and TSSA current feedback A/AB 40W amp.
My room is going to be (moving next year) around 30 - 40 sq meters.
It's living room with open back to the kithen/dining room.
Listening positions max 3 - 5 meters away.
Close wall positioning would be prefered.
Having those parameters in mind what should I have a look at?
What DIY projects and commercial offerings you guys liked?
At the moment I'm at two alternatives:
Troel's DIY DTQWT DTQWT-mkIII
and commercial JBL Studio 590
First being big, well documented and measured, but still, maybe a little too ambitious for an amateur like me project.
Second is unobtainium in my country. Although, with an effort and hunting skills I could find these somewhere in my continent to be shipped.
OK, it's maybe too dramatically said, but there's also a zest of truth in that.
I have sold my beloved, but old Spendor S100 pair and I'm quite happy about it for the moment.
Hence, I'm looking to build or acquire high sensitivity >92 dB/1W (or even better >95 dB/1W) speakers.
Funds are in the 2000 euros territory.
Skills are amateur. No speakers built as to this day. But woodwork or help could be outsourced to skilled lithuanian joiners.
System is DIY "Salas DCB1" gain unity pre and TSSA current feedback A/AB 40W amp.
My room is going to be (moving next year) around 30 - 40 sq meters.
It's living room with open back to the kithen/dining room.
Listening positions max 3 - 5 meters away.
Close wall positioning would be prefered.
Having those parameters in mind what should I have a look at?
What DIY projects and commercial offerings you guys liked?
At the moment I'm at two alternatives:
Troel's DIY DTQWT DTQWT-mkIII
and commercial JBL Studio 590
First being big, well documented and measured, but still, maybe a little too ambitious for an amateur like me project.
Second is unobtainium in my country. Although, with an effort and hunting skills I could find these somewhere in my continent to be shipped.
I've built the simpler Troels Gravesen's Quattro. If you follow the DTQWT instructions carefully, you most certainly can manage. Troels is very helpful to those of us who struggle.
I would also recommend the newer Horn designs, if you can purchase parts. The advantage of the TG design is reduced cabinet volume.
The advantage of horn loaded designs is increased sensitivity. Have courage, YOU can do it!
Sent from my HP 10 G2 Tablet using Tapatalk
I would also recommend the newer Horn designs, if you can purchase parts. The advantage of the TG design is reduced cabinet volume.
The advantage of horn loaded designs is increased sensitivity. Have courage, YOU can do it!
Sent from my HP 10 G2 Tablet using Tapatalk
Horns will give you a lot more sensitivity.
However not all horns are equal.
Not all compression drivers are equal.
I think Iwata horns are made in Europe? Not certain. Worth looking at.
There are some interesting Russian compression drivers, maybe you have easier access?
A few I saw are copies of the RCA. Other I think similar to the WE555...
Choose wisely!
You can listen to the JBL, I would expect that it is represented somewhere out there?
The Troels designs are interesting...
A lot depends on what sort of sound and presentation you want.
With the DIY you can change things and adjust - with the commercial, you have to sell it if ur not satisfied in some way (pretty much).
_-_-
However not all horns are equal.
Not all compression drivers are equal.
I think Iwata horns are made in Europe? Not certain. Worth looking at.
There are some interesting Russian compression drivers, maybe you have easier access?
A few I saw are copies of the RCA. Other I think similar to the WE555...
Choose wisely!
You can listen to the JBL, I would expect that it is represented somewhere out there?
The Troels designs are interesting...
A lot depends on what sort of sound and presentation you want.
With the DIY you can change things and adjust - with the commercial, you have to sell it if ur not satisfied in some way (pretty much).
_-_-
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As 'bear' mentioned above plus a few more comments -
There is a huge difference in the 3 examples that you've mentioned above (Spendor S100, Troels DTQWT III, JBL 590) that you need to better define the type of sound you like/want with the music preference, etc before you can look to reduce the choices of speaker design - and what makes it more difficult is the unknown future room specification - you need to reduce some of the variables otherwise not even an educated guess will be useful here and your 2 grand Eu budget is still worth a fair bit of homework
Also, the TSSA current feedback A/AB 40W amp will mate up well with some speakers as the load and not so well with others - this has been mentioned in the thread, I think ...
There is a huge difference in the 3 examples that you've mentioned above (Spendor S100, Troels DTQWT III, JBL 590) that you need to better define the type of sound you like/want with the music preference, etc before you can look to reduce the choices of speaker design - and what makes it more difficult is the unknown future room specification - you need to reduce some of the variables otherwise not even an educated guess will be useful here and your 2 grand Eu budget is still worth a fair bit of homework
Also, the TSSA current feedback A/AB 40W amp will mate up well with some speakers as the load and not so well with others - this has been mentioned in the thread, I think ...
What about synergy horns? People seem to be able to get a lot without exotic drivers. Worth a look . . . .
DIY Synergy Horn Test
Another one
etc. etc.
DIY Synergy Horn Test
Another one
etc. etc.
Can you explain why? Do you want the same sound as the Spendors, but you want it to go louder from your 40 watt amp?
I'm assuming you built your own amp and are OK with electronics, so it is the woodwork of Troels' DIY that is worrying.
Check out the other ideas Troels has for using that tweeter & midbass combo:
TQWT- applications (halfway down the linked page)
For a simple build, I'd suggest something like his Onken sketch. Troels says for this option "electronic crossovers may be worth pursuing here with a point of crossover from 100-250 Hz depending on actual driver set-up".
My inclination would be to go electronic, and make the box even simpler: a sealed box rather than an Onken.
I'd suggest one of these:
https://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers/pwr-ice125
Two of these (or similar):
https://www.musicstore.de/en_RS/EUR/RCF-L15P530-Mid-Bass-15-350-Watt-RMS-8-Ohm/art-PAH0012059-000
And two ~120 litre boxes.
Cost would be ~600 Euro, which is a bit less than the cost of the drivers and inductors needed for the double TQWT. I advise spending another $75 on a mic if you don't already have one.
https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-1
The module I'm suggesting, once you sacrificed 6dB to match the 94dB of the upper section, would have a -3dB point of 40Hz (and a gentle roll off), which is pretty good for a high(ish) efficiency system. With 125 watts available per driver, you could also lose another 3dB for baffle step compensation, and it would still have as much headroom as the upper section.
The flexibility of DSP means you could later re-set the bass module to work with any upper module, if you decided to try a coaxial, or electrostatics, or something else, for the upper range.
Thank you for motivations and replies.
Yes, size is a concern. It shouldn't be, for someone looking at high efficiency/sensitivity speakers, right?
Troel's boxes are already huge, but horns are always bigger.
Sure, I would like superior polar, power, transient response that horns can provide.
But even if I could convince my significant other to host horns size speakers in the room, they have another caveat – getting them dialed right.
For the first build, it's a road too adventurous to travel.
Integrating direct radiator with horn time alignment wise, XO etc, as far as I understand, is an expert business.
Except, if to comes as a well tested and documented kit... something that I have not seen yet.
S100s were beloved, because they were very musical speakers,
with midrange to die for, nice stage and were mostly tonaly right if removed from walls.
BBC school done the big way.
They were lacking in dynamics and transient response, unfortunately.
And if placed not "in middle of the room" (auth. my GF) they were a little overblowing low, low - mid response.
Adding fast and convincing CFA amplifier helped a lot to extend my life with the speakers.
The woofer surrounds didn't show any visual defects,
although I felt like they were aging and lacking the punch that their 13" size should have reproduced.
And no it wasn't room modes. Proved by experimenting and measurements.
So for my next step in speakers, I'd like high efficiency & sensitivity.
Not to annoy my neighbours and not for simply playing louder.
It's the punch, the drama, the headroom, the vivid tonality, true-to-life dynamics,
"being right there", engaging and lively sound at at ALL levels that I'm after.
Music not coming apart and natural at low levels too.
That's what high efficiency is known for?
PA-system levels of aggressiveness – no thank you.
Flat response, lack of coloration, good image quality,
while retaining the high-efficiency virtues of vivid tonality and true-to-life dynamics – yes, please.
I don't limit my listening to particular type of music,
it varies from techno to shoegaze, from lo - fi garage rock to fine recorded guitar and voice folk and pop and classic...
I'll try to find Sketchup renders and floor plans for my future room next.
Yes, size is a concern. It shouldn't be, for someone looking at high efficiency/sensitivity speakers, right?
Troel's boxes are already huge, but horns are always bigger.
Sure, I would like superior polar, power, transient response that horns can provide.
But even if I could convince my significant other to host horns size speakers in the room, they have another caveat – getting them dialed right.
For the first build, it's a road too adventurous to travel.
Integrating direct radiator with horn time alignment wise, XO etc, as far as I understand, is an expert business.
Except, if to comes as a well tested and documented kit... something that I have not seen yet.
S100s were beloved, because they were very musical speakers,
with midrange to die for, nice stage and were mostly tonaly right if removed from walls.
BBC school done the big way.
They were lacking in dynamics and transient response, unfortunately.
And if placed not "in middle of the room" (auth. my GF) they were a little overblowing low, low - mid response.
Adding fast and convincing CFA amplifier helped a lot to extend my life with the speakers.
The woofer surrounds didn't show any visual defects,
although I felt like they were aging and lacking the punch that their 13" size should have reproduced.
And no it wasn't room modes. Proved by experimenting and measurements.
So for my next step in speakers, I'd like high efficiency & sensitivity.
Not to annoy my neighbours and not for simply playing louder.
It's the punch, the drama, the headroom, the vivid tonality, true-to-life dynamics,
"being right there", engaging and lively sound at at ALL levels that I'm after.
Music not coming apart and natural at low levels too.
That's what high efficiency is known for?
PA-system levels of aggressiveness – no thank you.
Flat response, lack of coloration, good image quality,
while retaining the high-efficiency virtues of vivid tonality and true-to-life dynamics – yes, please.
I don't limit my listening to particular type of music,
it varies from techno to shoegaze, from lo - fi garage rock to fine recorded guitar and voice folk and pop and classic...
I'll try to find Sketchup renders and floor plans for my future room next.
Thank you, anji!
Corner placement and 92 dB/1W with great drivers.
Efficiency is a bit lower than I would like, but overall it's a nice option.
It's curious to read Troel's comment on Spendor like thin walls (being resonant).
From my experience, S100 were very heavily damped internaly with mixed material (that I couldn't quite pin down).
So overall they were thin walled, only when looking from the outside.
Corner placement and 92 dB/1W with great drivers.
Efficiency is a bit lower than I would like, but overall it's a nice option.
It's curious to read Troel's comment on Spendor like thin walls (being resonant).
From my experience, S100 were very heavily damped internaly with mixed material (that I couldn't quite pin down).
So overall they were thin walled, only when looking from the outside.
Many of us in North America are using a roofing product to dampen panels. It comes in rolls, can be cut with scissors and applied by hand.
It is not a substitute for sealing the box.
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Grace-Vyco...gclid=CPHQytTcwc8CFdgHgQodrlIOww&gclsrc=aw.ds
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
It is not a substitute for sealing the box.
http://m.homedepot.com/p/Grace-Vyco...gclid=CPHQytTcwc8CFdgHgQodrlIOww&gclsrc=aw.ds
Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
Size is relative.
Horns may not be substantially larger than a high quality and much lower sensitivity dynamic speaker - depends on what sort of speaker you're able to find a place for.
There's no need to use a horn for midbass & bass... that makes the footprint smaller.
For less large speaker systems, things like Lowther type/size drivers seem to be what people go for...
...too many variables, one must focus based on where your limits lie first, not what technology is possible; so size/space, SPL/freq response, budget/money.
Horns may not be substantially larger than a high quality and much lower sensitivity dynamic speaker - depends on what sort of speaker you're able to find a place for.
There's no need to use a horn for midbass & bass... that makes the footprint smaller.
For less large speaker systems, things like Lowther type/size drivers seem to be what people go for...
...too many variables, one must focus based on where your limits lie first, not what technology is possible; so size/space, SPL/freq response, budget/money.
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