Traditional guitar amp speakers are quite 'unflat', that is why people pick certain drivers over others.
The problem is that typically modelling amps also model the speakers so those usually use flat drivers and if you feed the signal into a regular guitar cab you get the speaker 'unflatness' twice.
The problem is that typically modelling amps also model the speakers so those usually use flat drivers and if you feed the signal into a regular guitar cab you get the speaker 'unflatness' twice.
My first thought was sure, try it, why not.
As was said above, both guitars and guitar amps are made to affect overall tone. This might turn out interesting, or a guitar shaped speaker cab might emphasize things in reverse of what you want. it might make it sound worse, so to speak. Only know by trying.
I remember when Ovation guitars came along, with their curved back fiberglass bodies. The body surely did work to project the sound more.
As was said above, both guitars and guitar amps are made to affect overall tone. This might turn out interesting, or a guitar shaped speaker cab might emphasize things in reverse of what you want. it might make it sound worse, so to speak. Only know by trying.
I remember when Ovation guitars came along, with their curved back fiberglass bodies. The body surely did work to project the sound more.
Give me a few days and I'll put my measurement mic on my guitar amp. I did it a while ago, but can't find the file now.
I'll also include a measurement of what you get if you put a dynamic mic on the cabinet in a usual position (around 1/2 way between the edge of the cone and the dustcap).
Chris
I'll also include a measurement of what you get if you put a dynamic mic on the cabinet in a usual position (around 1/2 way between the edge of the cone and the dustcap).
Chris
I honestly think that, when it comes to guitars, for just about every sonic aberration you can find, some guitarists will love it, and others might hate it.
As an example, I've heard some cabinets that sounded quite boxy / midrange dominant to me - not very pleasant to my ear when I'm trying to create pleasant clean tones. But the same prominent midrange seems to filter out harshness and fizziness from heavily distorted guitar, so these same cabinets can good for some types of rock guitar.
So are these good cabinets or bad ones? Well, I don't like that sound for what I play, so they're bad for me. But perhaps good for you?
I'm not trying to be politically correct and wishy-washy here. Just acknowledging the fact that musical tastes vary widely.
I should add that much fun can be had by mounting speakers in all sorts of oddball enclosures and listening to the results. I've tried plastic buckets (awful!), Styrofoam coolers (good, a bit bright, but quite good-sounding), fired clay flowerpots (hard to find one big enough, some have an almost metallic ring to the sound), and other weird things (enclosing the lowest shelf of a bookshelf).
I think the Styrofoam surprised me the most. Really quite a nice sound to my ears. Durability might be a bit of an issue, though!
-Gnobuddy
Normal guitar speaker response has an 8 to 12dB peak (on axis) between 2kHz and 3 kHz, with halfway 1500Hz or so being VERY common, and above 3 to 4 kHz they drop 24dB/octave.
So 25dB peak is monstrous and way over the top BUT, being a modeler, it might have included a 12dB peak "so flat Hi Fi types sound "Guitary", specially if you use an otherwise perceived as "dull" PA type woofer, think Eminence Alpha/Beta/Gamma speaker, but instead you used a Guitar type speaker which *already* has its own 12dB Presence peak.
Or maybe that output was meant to be sent straight to a flat Mixer input or even a flat PA/DJ type power amp driving flat speakers instead of a real Guitar amp and speakers.
FWIW nowadays many modeler equipped Guitar players , including those who plug straight into their Notebooks usin some USB interface and modeling software, do NOT use Guitar amps or speakers at all, just get a LOUD flat PA type monitor or powered cabinet (think EON and similar, meant for Voice/PA use) and do all the power amp and guitar speaker modelling straight in Software.
If both match and add up, there you get over the top 24dB boost.
So 25dB peak is monstrous and way over the top BUT, being a modeler, it might have included a 12dB peak "so flat Hi Fi types sound "Guitary", specially if you use an otherwise perceived as "dull" PA type woofer, think Eminence Alpha/Beta/Gamma speaker, but instead you used a Guitar type speaker which *already* has its own 12dB Presence peak.
Or maybe that output was meant to be sent straight to a flat Mixer input or even a flat PA/DJ type power amp driving flat speakers instead of a real Guitar amp and speakers.
FWIW nowadays many modeler equipped Guitar players , including those who plug straight into their Notebooks usin some USB interface and modeling software, do NOT use Guitar amps or speakers at all, just get a LOUD flat PA type monitor or powered cabinet (think EON and similar, meant for Voice/PA use) and do all the power amp and guitar speaker modelling straight in Software.
If both match and add up, there you get over the top 24dB boost.
When your speaker looks like the enclosed graph, how flat can your amp be?
These speakers were quite popular in the 80's. I have a pair mounted in a smallish sealed box. Their main virtues are LOUD, and blow proof. Good sound depends on some judicious EQ and tone control use.
When you work in a high security compound where everything gets inspected on the way in or out and stereo equipment is verboten, we had to get creative. Amps were easy since we worked in an electronics manufacturing facility where free silicon was doled out with the right words on a sample form. Sound sources were Walkman and Discman in the early days, MP3 players, phones and and PC's came later. About the only "allowed" speakers were cheap PC stuff.
One day when the construction crew was renovating a lab area I snatched a pair of the PA speakers from some ceiling tiles. I mounted them in a large Styrofoam shipping container designed for bulk packing 100 old style pagers. The box was about 2 cubic feet with inch thick walls and made of quality dense foam. It was sealed with a large quantity of double sided tape and duck tape. The first pair sounded bad because there was friction between the two box halves which squeaked on bass notes, so the second pair got the double sided tape sandwich. These sounded almost HiFi and saw duty most every night after all the bosses went home.
There was a chain of stereo stores called Sound Advice, with a store down the street from the plant. The knowledgeable among us only visited them during the twice annual clearance sale. We branded our clandestine speakers "Stoned Advice Model Zero" in carefully executed graphics hand drawn using a Sharpie.
These things lived for over two years being fed with a 30 WPC Plastic Tiger amp. They were still alive when I left the night shift lab and joined the "normal people" who worked during the day (1985).
Cheap Styrofoam cooler experiments did have some durability issues, but the Styrofoam panels used in building construction work pretty good, especially the stuff with a fiberglass web in it, sometimes called "Dow Board." Glue it with contact cement. Some glues will melt the plastic, so test on small pieces. My preference was to use it for lining plywood boxes that were made with thin plywood and 2 X 2's for light weight.
These speakers were quite popular in the 80's. I have a pair mounted in a smallish sealed box. Their main virtues are LOUD, and blow proof. Good sound depends on some judicious EQ and tone control use.
When you work in a high security compound where everything gets inspected on the way in or out and stereo equipment is verboten, we had to get creative. Amps were easy since we worked in an electronics manufacturing facility where free silicon was doled out with the right words on a sample form. Sound sources were Walkman and Discman in the early days, MP3 players, phones and and PC's came later. About the only "allowed" speakers were cheap PC stuff.
One day when the construction crew was renovating a lab area I snatched a pair of the PA speakers from some ceiling tiles. I mounted them in a large Styrofoam shipping container designed for bulk packing 100 old style pagers. The box was about 2 cubic feet with inch thick walls and made of quality dense foam. It was sealed with a large quantity of double sided tape and duck tape. The first pair sounded bad because there was friction between the two box halves which squeaked on bass notes, so the second pair got the double sided tape sandwich. These sounded almost HiFi and saw duty most every night after all the bosses went home.
There was a chain of stereo stores called Sound Advice, with a store down the street from the plant. The knowledgeable among us only visited them during the twice annual clearance sale. We branded our clandestine speakers "Stoned Advice Model Zero" in carefully executed graphics hand drawn using a Sharpie.
These things lived for over two years being fed with a 30 WPC Plastic Tiger amp. They were still alive when I left the night shift lab and joined the "normal people" who worked during the day (1985).
Cheap Styrofoam cooler experiments did have some durability issues, but the Styrofoam panels used in building construction work pretty good, especially the stuff with a fiberglass web in it, sometimes called "Dow Board." Glue it with contact cement. Some glues will melt the plastic, so test on small pieces. My preference was to use it for lining plywood boxes that were made with thin plywood and 2 X 2's for light weight.
Agree.
And EV is considered a "mild/flat" speaker by Electric Guitar standards, and is much preferred by Jazz and Fussion players for its "smooth" sound, closer to a PA speaker than to a Guitar one.
This is the response curve of a Jensen P12N , the classic "Fender Speaker" and fitted to the early Twin Amps (even before they became Twin Reverb) and as American as apple pie:
Alnico magnet of course
Such response is exaggerated because of typical guitar amp low damping factor (1) , and doubly so in amps with no feedback which are very popular.
Pentode outputs turn them into practically constant current sources, so adding a built-in EQ boost following the impedance curve as seen above: notice the strong resonance peak at 100Hz and the rising impedance at 6dB/oct from 400Hz up which are equivalent to fully rising the 100Hz band in a Graphic EQ plus setting the treble control to full, with a low turnover frequency of 400 Hz.
And EV is considered a "mild/flat" speaker by Electric Guitar standards, and is much preferred by Jazz and Fussion players for its "smooth" sound, closer to a PA speaker than to a Guitar one.
This is the response curve of a Jensen P12N , the classic "Fender Speaker" and fitted to the early Twin Amps (even before they became Twin Reverb) and as American as apple pie:
Alnico magnet of course
Such response is exaggerated because of typical guitar amp low damping factor (1) , and doubly so in amps with no feedback which are very popular.
Pentode outputs turn them into practically constant current sources, so adding a built-in EQ boost following the impedance curve as seen above: notice the strong resonance peak at 100Hz and the rising impedance at 6dB/oct from 400Hz up which are equivalent to fully rising the 100Hz band in a Graphic EQ plus setting the treble control to full, with a low turnover frequency of 400 Hz.
A very long time ago, I read an already-old book by Gilbert Briggs (founder of Wharfedale Speakers) that I found in the local British Council Library.
In the book, Briggs described a number of oddball speaker experiments he did, and I think one of them mentioned using Styrofoam for an enclosure. He described the result in fairly positive terms, if I recall correctly.
I did a few experiments myself years later, and I found that Styrofoam boxes have an intriguing sound - the material has enough internal damping to keep panel resonances from getting boomy, and sounds pretty neutral in some ways, but also seems to add a sort of subdued, papery-sounding brightness to the overall sound. Quite pleasant, overall, and better sounding than many wooden boxes I've heard.
George's plywood-skinned idea is quite interesting, with the possibility of good acoustic performance, decent strength, and light weight.
The local Home Depot carries large foam panels that include thin aluminium foil glued onto one surface (for improved thermal properties). That might only need plywood glued to one surface (the non-foil one) to get adequate strength.
-Gnobuddy
I have seen panels that are about 1.5 to 2 inches thick, yellow foam in the center, shiny aluminum on both sides. It could be cut on a table saw and is light enough for a 4 X 8 foot sheet to be carried by one person. I saw the stuff in Florida last year as it was being used to build a porch on a house trailer. I thought about some rather odd looking metal speakers, then forgot about it.
You gentlemen made me curious about this mysterious material, so I did a little searching, and found this: Rigid Foam Panels – Store It Cold
And this: IKO 1-in x 4-ft x 8-ft Polyisocyanurate Insulated Sheathing | Lowe's Canada
Note this warning: "This product can be irritating to skin, wear long sleeves and gloves."
Since the chemical name ( polyisocyanurate ) suggests that this foam contains cyanide, I would be leery of using the stuff, and particularly of sawing into it, etc.
Let's hope the stuff doesn't outgas some form of cyanide into all those "dongas" and houses built with it.
Attempts to improve thermal R values are wonderful for reducing heating costs and energy waste, but seem to have brought a host of other problems with them. The infamous "leaky condos" nightmare in British Columbia was supposedly largely caused by better thermal barriers that also, unfortunately, turning out to be better moisture barriers.
The result was that moisture from breathing, laundry, cooking, etc, could not leave the building, and instead condensed, puddled, dripped, oozed, and generally caused all sorts of water damage, mould growth, and discomfort to occupants.
-Gnobuddy
And this: IKO 1-in x 4-ft x 8-ft Polyisocyanurate Insulated Sheathing | Lowe's Canada
Note this warning: "This product can be irritating to skin, wear long sleeves and gloves."
Since the chemical name ( polyisocyanurate ) suggests that this foam contains cyanide, I would be leery of using the stuff, and particularly of sawing into it, etc.
Let's hope the stuff doesn't outgas some form of cyanide into all those "dongas" and houses built with it.
Attempts to improve thermal R values are wonderful for reducing heating costs and energy waste, but seem to have brought a host of other problems with them. The infamous "leaky condos" nightmare in British Columbia was supposedly largely caused by better thermal barriers that also, unfortunately, turning out to be better moisture barriers.
The result was that moisture from breathing, laundry, cooking, etc, could not leave the building, and instead condensed, puddled, dripped, oozed, and generally caused all sorts of water damage, mould growth, and discomfort to occupants.
-Gnobuddy
It´s a stable compound, so won´t outgas, but if it catches fire , then it does.Since the chemical name ( polyisocyanurate ) suggests that this foam contains cyanide, I would be leery of using the stuff, and particularly of sawing into it, etc.
Let's hope the stuff doesn't outgas some form of cyanide into all those "dongas" and houses built with it.
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We had 194 dead Rock fans when an illegally licensed (they bribed City and Fire dept. authorities) Rock Club caught fire.
It was illegally soundproofed with sleeping mat grade urethane foam was used to cover walls and roof, which spews cyanide gas when burning.
See that the Club was not burnt down to ashes, far from it, you practically see NO fire damage, soot, smoke or ashes, but cyanide gas from relatively minor foam fires killed 194:
sorry for the gross images but in this case are very relevant to what we are talking.
And will discourage many about using it as insulation or soundproofing:
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