What about the VISATON FRS8 ?
www.visaton.com
I made a small cubic speaker a while ago with these. No bass
but not bad at all. Some poeple even made backloaded horns with it (Buschhorn).
Klaus
www.visaton.com
I made a small cubic speaker a while ago with these. No bass
but not bad at all. Some poeple even made backloaded horns with it (Buschhorn).Klaus
Xyberz said:
The reason companies brag a speaker can handle 200W is because people buy into it. Most speaker's never get pushed anywhere near the rated power limits. The reason is because we have a volume control. Under normal usage, my volume control is at about 1/20th it's total (if even that high). Did I need a theater receiver that was 70x5? No, not really. 10x5 (assuming clean power) would've been plenty. It's just marketing. People want more power.
Look at a speaker's sensitivity, let's say 90dB at 1 watt. With one watt of power, you've got 90dB. Two of those speakers playing at that level in a living room will be pretty loud. Louder than I would care to sit and listen to, under most circumstances. I tend to stick to the 70-80dB range, which would be a fraction of a watt on these speakers.
it all depends. 100W at 300hz and most woofers can handle it.
20W at 20Hz and few woofers are capable. even the power supply of most AVRs start panting (you can actually hear this).
the vol control of most amps, AVRs etc are log. because our ears are log too. so in linear terms at 9 o clock position you are no using 25% of the power of your amp. A lot less.
at 12 o clock position you are not using 50% of the power of your amp and so on.
10W is fine if your amp at 10-20db dynamic headroom for 300ms and the power supply is built accordingly. Some amps are uilt like this. However for marketing purposes they prefe to make amps that are 100W with little or no dynamic headroom whatsoever.
I prefer to measure amps by how much they weigh. I am sure if all of us start doing to amp makers will use lead cabinets. so any method we use to measure amps and the manufactueres will find a way to defeat the real measurements.
I have a old Avery Fisher 30W amp that can run circles around the current crop of 100x5 AVRs and that too when only 2 of their channels are driven.
cheers
Navin
20W at 20Hz and few woofers are capable. even the power supply of most AVRs start panting (you can actually hear this).
the vol control of most amps, AVRs etc are log. because our ears are log too. so in linear terms at 9 o clock position you are no using 25% of the power of your amp. A lot less.
at 12 o clock position you are not using 50% of the power of your amp and so on.
10W is fine if your amp at 10-20db dynamic headroom for 300ms and the power supply is built accordingly. Some amps are uilt like this. However for marketing purposes they prefe to make amps that are 100W with little or no dynamic headroom whatsoever.
I prefer to measure amps by how much they weigh. I am sure if all of us start doing to amp makers will use lead cabinets. so any method we use to measure amps and the manufactueres will find a way to defeat the real measurements.
I have a old Avery Fisher 30W amp that can run circles around the current crop of 100x5 AVRs and that too when only 2 of their channels are driven.
cheers
Navin
The 2.5" speakers form Harmony Taiwan are pretty cheap! Only $6 each. I'm still waiting for price on shipping but it shouldn't be that much.
Another thought just came up. When building a wood enclosure out of 1/2" MDF, would it need a port to make the full range sound better? I see that the Bose Jewel cubes don't have a port. It just has that nautilus chamber inside the enclosure. These are the measurements for the cubes that I want to make:
4-1/2"H x 2-3/4"W x 3-1/4"D
If a port is needed for better sound, then what dia. and length port should I use? If it's longer than the depth then is there any way to bend the port or make a modified one to fit? Bose Jewel cubes nautilus design is comparable to a 4" port, but squeezed into a small box. Also what type of material is best since it will probably be pretty small?
Also, what's the best software that I can use to calculate this and is still pretty easy to use for the newbie. Just plug in some specs and measurements and wah-laa!
Is there any websites out there or any books that describe ports and speaker box building like these? I wouldn't mind reading some more information about it.
Another thought just came up. When building a wood enclosure out of 1/2" MDF, would it need a port to make the full range sound better? I see that the Bose Jewel cubes don't have a port. It just has that nautilus chamber inside the enclosure. These are the measurements for the cubes that I want to make:
4-1/2"H x 2-3/4"W x 3-1/4"D
If a port is needed for better sound, then what dia. and length port should I use? If it's longer than the depth then is there any way to bend the port or make a modified one to fit? Bose Jewel cubes nautilus design is comparable to a 4" port, but squeezed into a small box. Also what type of material is best since it will probably be pretty small?
Also, what's the best software that I can use to calculate this and is still pretty easy to use for the newbie. Just plug in some specs and measurements and wah-laa!
Is there any websites out there or any books that describe ports and speaker box building like these? I wouldn't mind reading some more information about it.
navin said:
I found a decent method, if possible, is to look at the transformer inside, and the capacitance tied to it. That way, even if the amplifier circuit being powered by it isn't strong enough, you know the power supply is built enough to stand some slight modifications. This is pretty much directly tied to the weight, as you mentioned, since aside from heatsinks, the power supply is the heavy part.
I heard a pair of 3" TBs in small ported cabinets made by Danny at GR Research and they were surprisingly good, especially for voice.
But if you are looking for small size and little cost and don't want to build your own cabinets then get some Minimus 7s. They have great little 4"ers in them that are great project speakers for the future, are common and not expensive. I have been abusing a pair for at least 15 years and they have been 2 homes, 3 cars and I have pulled the drivers out for test speakers at least 3 times.
Build your own I would go with the 3" TBs and 1/2" to 3/4" viod free ply.
But if you are looking for small size and little cost and don't want to build your own cabinets then get some Minimus 7s. They have great little 4"ers in them that are great project speakers for the future, are common and not expensive. I have been abusing a pair for at least 15 years and they have been 2 homes, 3 cars and I have pulled the drivers out for test speakers at least 3 times.
Build your own I would go with the 3" TBs and 1/2" to 3/4" viod free ply.
I am absolutely a noob when it comes to diy audio... got intrigued by this thread, downloaded winisd and did my first box design
Using W3-593S, the optimum sealed box dimensions are:
W 6.73"
D 4.04"
H 10.77"
A flat response down to 100 Hz. Winisd says any dimensions are okay as long as volume is about 4.8 L (they recommend against a cube though - can anyone comment on that please)
Again using W3-593S, the optimum vented box dimensions are:
W 9.11"
H 14.58"
D 5.47"
V 11.9 L
vent length 5.33" for 1.85" dia.
What I found absolutely amazing is that with this small driver you can go down to 45 Hz response (with a big box)
Now, I am planning to make a sealed box out of this:
Using W3-593S, the optimum sealed box dimensions are:
W 6.73"
D 4.04"
H 10.77"
A flat response down to 100 Hz. Winisd says any dimensions are okay as long as volume is about 4.8 L (they recommend against a cube though - can anyone comment on that please)
Again using W3-593S, the optimum vented box dimensions are:
W 9.11"
H 14.58"
D 5.47"
V 11.9 L
vent length 5.33" for 1.85" dia.
What I found absolutely amazing is that with this small driver you can go down to 45 Hz response (with a big box)
Now, I am planning to make a sealed box out of this:
Attachments
jag said:
The picture is the chart generated by my modeling software, MacSpeakerz.
A couple points need to be considered here:
1/ the driver takes up a significant amount of space in the box, so with corner fill and such you can probably achieve the small box you need to get a higher Q cabinet.
2/What is probably more important is the F10
3/ this ignores any baffle step phenomenom (go check out the Wiki for more info on BSC)
In the end the W2 is more suited to midrange use, the W3 is much more suited to sat use althou you could probably get more out of the W2 in a ported or TL enclosure (but by then the box is as big as the one for the W3)
A gem that someone told me, was that for sealed boxes you just build as big a box as you can get away with.
dave
Thatch_Ear said:
Nuera, PE, and MCM as i mentioned in my earlier post. PE is a bit more expensive than Nuera (and Nuera is just across the pond from me in Vancouver). After my 1st experience with MCM i try not to have to deal with them.
One has to factor in the postage/shipping into the equation so your location plays a role. Given Canada Posts rates some in the US might find that it is cheaper to get them from Nuera (and i do like trying to help out the little guys -- no slur on PE intended).
Does anyone have a handle on European & Asian suppliers for our brethern on the other sides of the 2 big oceans?
dave
jag said:
Those boxes give a whole new meaning to tupperware. You might have some issues with ballooning thou. But it does big out a VERY imporatant point with these -- the boxes required are so small that any number of found objects can be used as enclosures. Clay pots, lunch-boxes, PVC pipe, and now Tupperware. You could get some pretty novel enclosures -- any suggestions?
General wisdom says that a box should avoid having any dimensions that are integer multiples of each other to spread out standing waves. A cube is frowned on because it has a ratio of 1:1:1 -- all the standing waves are at the same frequency. On the other hand the large amount of space the driver takes up in this case it will severely change the resonant structures inside the box and they will all be quite high in frequency where they are easier to deal with (ie the best place for damping a standing wave is in the middle of the box. Some thick wool-felt on the can of the magnet structure would go a long ways).
dave
Dave,
Thanks for all the responses, extremely helpful. I decided on that particular model of Rubbermaid since I found is to be suprisingly rigid. Also, much easier to cut and drill when compared to clay pots, etc.
Would it be a good idea to line the inside of the box with damping material in this case or is it not worth the effort? I did note your suggestion about putting some damping on magnet can.
Thanks again!
Thanks for all the responses, extremely helpful. I decided on that particular model of Rubbermaid since I found is to be suprisingly rigid. Also, much easier to cut and drill when compared to clay pots, etc.
Would it be a good idea to line the inside of the box with damping material in this case or is it not worth the effort? I did note your suggestion about putting some damping on magnet can.
Thanks again!
Actually I wasn't really looking to make an exact cube for an enclosure. That's what everyone usally calls the Bose Jewel speakers. The measurements I want to make for an enclosure is below:
4 1/2"H x 2 1/4"W x 3 1/4"D (11.2 x 5.6 x 8.1 cm)
That's the same size as the Jewel. I understand from what I have read in this forum that those are just basically tweeters pretending to be full-range speakers. Now I know there has to be better speakers that are the same size out there. Does anyone know of any that would fit into the enclosure as described above? Also would it sound better if I made a small port on the enclosure or leave it sealed like the Bose speakers.
As you can tell, I'm just trying to make Bose knockoffs because buying those little things from Bose is just too much money I'm willing to invest right now and I'd rather spend a fraction of the price and make something comparable to it. I understand that the Jewel Cubes don't go any lower than 250Hz and that's perfectly fine by me. I can make a box with speakers about 4-5" specifically for the frequency range that the Bose system lacks.
4 1/2"H x 2 1/4"W x 3 1/4"D (11.2 x 5.6 x 8.1 cm)
That's the same size as the Jewel. I understand from what I have read in this forum that those are just basically tweeters pretending to be full-range speakers. Now I know there has to be better speakers that are the same size out there. Does anyone know of any that would fit into the enclosure as described above? Also would it sound better if I made a small port on the enclosure or leave it sealed like the Bose speakers.
As you can tell, I'm just trying to make Bose knockoffs because buying those little things from Bose is just too much money I'm willing to invest right now and I'd rather spend a fraction of the price and make something comparable to it. I understand that the Jewel Cubes don't go any lower than 250Hz and that's perfectly fine by me. I can make a box with speakers about 4-5" specifically for the frequency range that the Bose system lacks.
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