Hi Suzy,
I'm trying to learn how to use a simulator. Short on time and other things. Picking this stuff up when you're younger is much easier.
Another point. If you can attend college or university, it's about the least expensive way to learn the details. I will never regret going to higher education.
Also, buying a variac in my teens was an excellent move. Saved a lot of smoke!
-Chris
Edit: Can you simulate burned fingers?
I'm trying to learn how to use a simulator. Short on time and other things. Picking this stuff up when you're younger is much easier.
Another point. If you can attend college or university, it's about the least expensive way to learn the details. I will never regret going to higher education.
Also, buying a variac in my teens was an excellent move. Saved a lot of smoke!
-Chris
Edit: Can you simulate burned fingers?
(or something to that effect). This also simulates electrical fires rather well.Learning Electronic Repair
Hi Diyers,
When I was searching for good electronic repair guidelines or books, I stumbled upon a site run by an electronic engineer/teacher, Jestine Yong from Malaysia.
The link is:Electronic repair troubleshooting tips and secrets
I have been excited about what he claims. Any beginner can learn troubleshooting and repair easily by following his tips. I need to know whether any of our Diyers has subscribed his e-books. More specifically, is it a scam or a genuine site. There are numerous, interesting books by the same author.
Let me know if anyone has an idea about this guy.
Cheers
Hi Diyers,
When I was searching for good electronic repair guidelines or books, I stumbled upon a site run by an electronic engineer/teacher, Jestine Yong from Malaysia.
The link is:Electronic repair troubleshooting tips and secrets
I have been excited about what he claims. Any beginner can learn troubleshooting and repair easily by following his tips. I need to know whether any of our Diyers has subscribed his e-books. More specifically, is it a scam or a genuine site. There are numerous, interesting books by the same author.
Let me know if anyone has an idea about this guy.
Cheers
Hi,
Everyone makes a sales pitch but use your common sense,there are a lot
of free books and articles on repair and design on the net.From my personal
experience real life problem solving is not what textbooks do well because
there are 101 ways for component failure.Books can be a guide, only
a person with the right motivation/interest and willingness to try and fail
will learn the most.Spoon feeding does not help in difficult problems
but it helps less experienced people to zero in on the fault.So always
update and learn how electronics circuits work. Singa
Everyone makes a sales pitch but use your common sense,there are a lot
of free books and articles on repair and design on the net.From my personal
experience real life problem solving is not what textbooks do well because
there are 101 ways for component failure.Books can be a guide, only
a person with the right motivation/interest and willingness to try and fail
will learn the most.Spoon feeding does not help in difficult problems
but it helps less experienced people to zero in on the fault.So always
update and learn how electronics circuits work. Singa
Electronic repair
Hi Singa,
Your point is very well taken. To be successful in any endeavor, one has to have the motivation, dedication and commitment and little bit of intuition.
But my question is, have you come across this guy, Mr.Jestine Yong from Malaysia, who seems to have very interesting publications.
Check is web site: Electronic Repair And Technology News
I hope someone give me some idea about this guy. I think he seemed be a genuine proponent on the subject of electronic repair.
Cheers
Mohan
Hi Singa,
Your point is very well taken. To be successful in any endeavor, one has to have the motivation, dedication and commitment and little bit of intuition.
But my question is, have you come across this guy, Mr.Jestine Yong from Malaysia, who seems to have very interesting publications.
Check is web site: Electronic Repair And Technology News
I hope someone give me some idea about this guy. I think he seemed be a genuine proponent on the subject of electronic repair.
Cheers
Mohan
Hi Singa,
Your point is very well taken. To be successful in any endeavor, one has to have the motivation, dedication and commitment and little bit of intuition.
But my question is, have you come across this guy, Mr.Jestine Yong from Malaysia, who seems to have very interesting publications.
Check is web site: Electronic Repair And Technology News
I hope someone give me some idea about this guy. I think he seemed be a genuine proponent on the subject of electronic repair.
Cheers
Mohan
I get his monthly newsletter and it has some useful tips.
bad components
I haven't purchased his books because I've been doing electronics repair for over 30 years so I have little need for that.
There are several sites available with the "how to" on repair of electronics so take a look around.
Here is an example of another web site about repairing electronics gear.
Notes on the Troubleshooting and Repair of Audio Equipment and Other Miscellaneous Stuff
Basic Electronics - lessons, tutorials and more.: SAFETY PRECAUTIONS
Hi Mohan,
I haven't seen that site, but I have trained technicians for years. One thing is clear about servicing. Once you complete university or college, you are ready to begin learning. In no way will you be ready to start servicing! There is just so much to know, and if you can't resign yourself to learn all your life, you'll never be a good technician.
Most guides and quick courses have a store of short cuts and tips. The problem is that the novice has no idea when taking a "short cut" is appropriate, or even safe. Watching a good tech has similar perils. A good tech does things subconsciously without even thinking for the most part. It looks like magic to an outsider, but there is no way to copy his steps as he's learned to work efficiently, and his best tools are between his ears.
The less you know about a subject, the easier it appears to be. The more you know, the more you realize that you don't know - yet. As for designing, that is an extension of servicing as far as I'm concerned. Before you can design well, you need to see what happens when bad design decisions are made. A few years of service in the area you wish to study in would be mandatory before you'd be allowed to design any commercial product in my world.
So, how to get there? Like anything else, you need to invest time and money to get a formal education in the subject. Once you have that, you can recognize practical ideas and store them. In other words, higher education sets you up to begin a path of learning a subject.
Things I can recommend would be to read the books on basics first. You need to know the basics cold before going on. Then, build some projects and measure various points to see what's going on. I can't say enough positive about those 50 in 1 and up to the 300 in one type electronics kits. You follow the manual and learn. The goal is to learn how parts work and react. Smoke is a helpful aid to learning, and hopefully not too expensive. You absolutely need to be familiar with each type of component in order to tell if they are defective or not. Knowing the parts also will alert you to alternative parts that will not work for long in an application. Those technicians who do not know what they are doing cost consumers huge money every year. They also waste a huge amount of time for the next technician that gets the unit on their bench next.
There are no short cuts in learning. To learn takes time and patience (and a fair amount of money in many cases). It will also require that you pick up the tools of the trade. Don't buy cheap (junk) hand tools, that's is a waste of your money. You also don't need the best stuff out there. You really do need to practice and develop good, clean work habits. Know how to remove parts and solder. Even connecting two pieces of wire has wrong and right ways to go about it. We had to practice splicing wires, then pass this practical test as well. Neat workmanship can not be stressed enough in my view.
I think the writer that bugs me the most is a guy named Homer L. Davison. There's an example of a guy who doesn't teach well and has little respect for the right ways to go about fixing things. Even replacing a belt requires more than slipping another on that you think is close enough. I just had a CD player in where the seasoned tech who worked on it (I know who it was) totally botched replacing belts. He had to order it in, so there is no excuse for having the wrong belt. He did not clean anything for one, he installed only one of two identical belts and the belt he did install was much too small in circumference. I'm waiting for the proper belts to arrive, an the mechanism is already cleaned and lubricated. The pulleys were still covered in rubber, residue from cigarettes and cooking and even grease. That is how this guy left the unit after he put a new belt on. BTW, he charged the customer $150 for this work. What a crook!
Finally, as c2cthomas pointed out, there are safety issues that you must learn, and that's at least a term all on it's own.
Good luck, Chris
I haven't seen that site, but I have trained technicians for years. One thing is clear about servicing. Once you complete university or college, you are ready to begin learning. In no way will you be ready to start servicing! There is just so much to know, and if you can't resign yourself to learn all your life, you'll never be a good technician.
Most guides and quick courses have a store of short cuts and tips. The problem is that the novice has no idea when taking a "short cut" is appropriate, or even safe. Watching a good tech has similar perils. A good tech does things subconsciously without even thinking for the most part. It looks like magic to an outsider, but there is no way to copy his steps as he's learned to work efficiently, and his best tools are between his ears.
The less you know about a subject, the easier it appears to be. The more you know, the more you realize that you don't know - yet. As for designing, that is an extension of servicing as far as I'm concerned. Before you can design well, you need to see what happens when bad design decisions are made. A few years of service in the area you wish to study in would be mandatory before you'd be allowed to design any commercial product in my world.
So, how to get there? Like anything else, you need to invest time and money to get a formal education in the subject. Once you have that, you can recognize practical ideas and store them. In other words, higher education sets you up to begin a path of learning a subject.
Things I can recommend would be to read the books on basics first. You need to know the basics cold before going on. Then, build some projects and measure various points to see what's going on. I can't say enough positive about those 50 in 1 and up to the 300 in one type electronics kits. You follow the manual and learn. The goal is to learn how parts work and react. Smoke is a helpful aid to learning, and hopefully not too expensive. You absolutely need to be familiar with each type of component in order to tell if they are defective or not. Knowing the parts also will alert you to alternative parts that will not work for long in an application. Those technicians who do not know what they are doing cost consumers huge money every year. They also waste a huge amount of time for the next technician that gets the unit on their bench next.
There are no short cuts in learning. To learn takes time and patience (and a fair amount of money in many cases). It will also require that you pick up the tools of the trade. Don't buy cheap (junk) hand tools, that's is a waste of your money. You also don't need the best stuff out there. You really do need to practice and develop good, clean work habits. Know how to remove parts and solder. Even connecting two pieces of wire has wrong and right ways to go about it. We had to practice splicing wires, then pass this practical test as well. Neat workmanship can not be stressed enough in my view.
I think the writer that bugs me the most is a guy named Homer L. Davison. There's an example of a guy who doesn't teach well and has little respect for the right ways to go about fixing things. Even replacing a belt requires more than slipping another on that you think is close enough. I just had a CD player in where the seasoned tech who worked on it (I know who it was) totally botched replacing belts. He had to order it in, so there is no excuse for having the wrong belt. He did not clean anything for one, he installed only one of two identical belts and the belt he did install was much too small in circumference. I'm waiting for the proper belts to arrive, an the mechanism is already cleaned and lubricated. The pulleys were still covered in rubber, residue from cigarettes and cooking and even grease. That is how this guy left the unit after he put a new belt on. BTW, he charged the customer $150 for this work. What a crook!
Finally, as c2cthomas pointed out, there are safety issues that you must learn, and that's at least a term all on it's own.
Good luck, Chris
Hi Mohan,
Saw the site. I'm not impressed at all. That is not how to learn electronics.
He reminds me of how the Sencore company worked. Same deal. For example, a capacitor ESR meter only tells you one thing about a part, and certainly will not involve knowledge of how the part is supposed to work.
-Chris
Saw the site. I'm not impressed at all. That is not how to learn electronics.
He reminds me of how the Sencore company worked. Same deal. For example, a capacitor ESR meter only tells you one thing about a part, and certainly will not involve knowledge of how the part is supposed to work.
-Chris
Hello again Mohan,
Please realize that Chris and I are not discouraging you in your pursuit to learn how to service electronic gear. Quite the opposite - we are trying to share our knowledge and experience with you. Education is key - and there is a lot to become educated about. I started out with two years of intensive training - much of it went past toooooo fast and thus you will find yourself revisiting and relearning things again - but to a higher level. Very much like auto mechanics - you don't start working on a high performance race car until you have gained many years of training and experience. Many of my technicians had 20 years of training and experience but it was field level of repair and it would take a couple of more years of training before they could be effective at the depot overhaul level. Take your time and start at the beginning. This place (and some others as well) are a great place to learn while you also get to build some gear that you will enjoy listening to.
BTW - electronic tech jobs don't pay all that well compared to the education required - sad but true.
OTOH I have a buddy that is an auto mechanic that knows how to fix the electronic "boxs" inside the cars and he's making a killing!!!! Another buddy is an electrician that knows how to hook up industrial robots and program PLC's and he does very well too.
Please realize that Chris and I are not discouraging you in your pursuit to learn how to service electronic gear. Quite the opposite - we are trying to share our knowledge and experience with you. Education is key - and there is a lot to become educated about. I started out with two years of intensive training - much of it went past toooooo fast and thus you will find yourself revisiting and relearning things again - but to a higher level. Very much like auto mechanics - you don't start working on a high performance race car until you have gained many years of training and experience. Many of my technicians had 20 years of training and experience but it was field level of repair and it would take a couple of more years of training before they could be effective at the depot overhaul level. Take your time and start at the beginning. This place (and some others as well) are a great place to learn while you also get to build some gear that you will enjoy listening to.
BTW - electronic tech jobs don't pay all that well compared to the education required - sad but true.
OTOH I have a buddy that is an auto mechanic that knows how to fix the electronic "boxs" inside the cars and he's making a killing!!!! Another buddy is an electrician that knows how to hook up industrial robots and program PLC's and he does very well too.
Practical Electronics
Dear Thomas, and Anatech,
Thank you for your excellent suggestions. You message is clear to anyone wishing to learn practical electronics and troubleshooting. As I have noted,
* Need to know the basics
* Learn through harder way, there are no short-cuts
* Need dedication, commitment and motivation and invest lot of time to learn
* Perseverance is a the most important ingredient for success in the field.
For your information, I am professional civil engineer, who is interested in learning the troubleshooting of audio equipment. Also, I want to build few electronic projects such a regulated power supplies, and operational amps etc.
During my university days ( during first & second year), we were given through understanding of basic electronics and electrical engineering, however, owing to specializing in civil engineering I had not pursued with electronics.
Now I am hit by DIY bug, after becoming a member of this excellent DIY forum, I want to learn troubleshooting of various audio equipment, so that I will not be taken on a ride by so called electronic repair technicians.
If I can diagnose the fault of audio equipment, I can get good idea of the cost and the complexity of the repair. Later, I should be able to repair it without much cost.
As you all said, many technicians who are doing repairs do not look at the problem holistically, as you said, if they want to change the belt of the cd player, they just do that without the thinking of long-term serviceability of the player.
I hope with continuous reading of good electronic books and practical , I should be able to master this subject.
Cheers
Dear Thomas, and Anatech,
Thank you for your excellent suggestions. You message is clear to anyone wishing to learn practical electronics and troubleshooting. As I have noted,
* Need to know the basics
* Learn through harder way, there are no short-cuts
* Need dedication, commitment and motivation and invest lot of time to learn
* Perseverance is a the most important ingredient for success in the field.
For your information, I am professional civil engineer, who is interested in learning the troubleshooting of audio equipment. Also, I want to build few electronic projects such a regulated power supplies, and operational amps etc.
During my university days ( during first & second year), we were given through understanding of basic electronics and electrical engineering, however, owing to specializing in civil engineering I had not pursued with electronics.
Now I am hit by DIY bug, after becoming a member of this excellent DIY forum, I want to learn troubleshooting of various audio equipment, so that I will not be taken on a ride by so called electronic repair technicians.
If I can diagnose the fault of audio equipment, I can get good idea of the cost and the complexity of the repair. Later, I should be able to repair it without much cost.
As you all said, many technicians who are doing repairs do not look at the problem holistically, as you said, if they want to change the belt of the cd player, they just do that without the thinking of long-term serviceability of the player.
I hope with continuous reading of good electronic books and practical , I should be able to master this subject.
Cheers
Ha-ha!! As I used to tell my engineering friends - I've rarely met an engineer that was civil!
As Chris suggested earlier - some of those 300 projects in one kits can teach you a bunch about electronics - not a bad place to start.
Should you get the bug to jump right in and build something there are a lot of great people here that can help you with just about anything you wish to know. As long as it's not about having a proper social life or how to explain to SWMBO why you are building ANOTHER set of speakers (or amps - or pre-amps - or music servers - or turn tables - or interconnect cables - or or or etc.
As Chris suggested earlier - some of those 300 projects in one kits can teach you a bunch about electronics - not a bad place to start.
Should you get the bug to jump right in and build something there are a lot of great people here that can help you with just about anything you wish to know. As long as it's not about having a proper social life or how to explain to SWMBO why you are building ANOTHER set of speakers (or amps - or pre-amps - or music servers - or turn tables - or interconnect cables - or or or etc.
Hi Thomas,
It's nice to hear from you quick, you may wonder why a civil engineer is interested in learning electronics. I like to learn new things, now I am around 54yrs old, and looking electronic as hobby during retirement. It's a fascinating subject and from university days I was curious about electronics but did not have time due to busy professional life.
I hope you can suggest few diy projects so that I could start and learn fast.
It's wonderful to hearing from Diyers coming other parts of the world.
Keep in touch,
Cheers
It's nice to hear from you quick, you may wonder why a civil engineer is interested in learning electronics. I like to learn new things, now I am around 54yrs old, and looking electronic as hobby during retirement. It's a fascinating subject and from university days I was curious about electronics but did not have time due to busy professional life.
I hope you can suggest few diy projects so that I could start and learn fast.
It's wonderful to hearing from Diyers coming other parts of the world.
Keep in touch,
Cheers
Sooooo you are 54 years young!!! I have about 9 years more than you - but that just makes me older - not necessarily wiser.
Somehow I got the impression that you were just starting out on your path in life and wanting to learn how to repair electronic equipment as a carrier. After a bit of rereading I now understand that you want to repair electronics as a sort of hobby and for the "fun" of having something to play around with and the pride that comes with being able to get things fixed.
Learning the skills necessary at this level will be much easier than getting a degree from a university or technical school. Just let us know what you wish to learn - and if you can put up with our warped sense of humor and joking around we will get you where you need to be!
Here is a link about the educational electronic "lab" kits that were mentioned earlier. Perhaps you can get something similar where you are living. http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/complete.htm#Electronics Labs
Best Wishes - Thomas
Somehow I got the impression that you were just starting out on your path in life and wanting to learn how to repair electronic equipment as a carrier. After a bit of rereading I now understand that you want to repair electronics as a sort of hobby and for the "fun" of having something to play around with and the pride that comes with being able to get things fixed.
Learning the skills necessary at this level will be much easier than getting a degree from a university or technical school. Just let us know what you wish to learn - and if you can put up with our warped sense of humor and joking around we will get you where you need to be!
Here is a link about the educational electronic "lab" kits that were mentioned earlier. Perhaps you can get something similar where you are living. http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/complete.htm#Electronics Labs
Best Wishes - Thomas
Last edited:
Hi Thomas,
I also had the impression that Mohan was a young fella.
Hi Mohan,
Don't take this the wrong way please. There are several very good audio technicians out there as well. The example I gave earlier was an extreme one, and this nest of vipers has been at it since the 70's. It was too easy to pull out a good example from their repertoire of crimes against humanity.
I need to make one point that I feel is extremely important to remember when dealing with a service technician in any trade. You are not paying him to replace one or more parts. Lose that concept right away. What you are paying for is years upon years of training, formal and industry in seminars and distributor training. A good technician is very over-qualified for his job description. That's why the really good ones went to other jobs, as I did. You are paying for his space and running costs (hold on, I know you're all heard that one before), equipment costs and maintenance (these are not trivial costs!), the cost of stocked inventory and service information. That includes both computer and paper folks. Finally, you are paying that person to carefully disassemble, check for known faults, replacing the part(s) and cleaning up the unit in that area, then to reassemble and perform adjustments and tests to confirm the equipment is in fact working properly. This can represent hours of work.
So, how much does your company charge out per hour of your time? It's over $100 in North America, I can tell you that for sure. If you make a $40K salary per year, your company has to make that, plus a profit - or you won't have a job for very long.
I'm pointing out that service costs are much lower than they ought to be if you are getting good work done. Every industry has rip-off artists, so just try to make sure you are paying for good work. Starve out the hackers!!
Now, why did I bother mentioning this? Well, because you posted this ...
Another thing I should warn you about. That is doing work and charging for it without having the proper equipment, parts and training. Don't do that. It's tempting enough to try and make some money that way, but you would be doing a giant disservice to those people you do work for. Egos again. By all means, charge for building kits and similar things. Do stay well within your limits of competency, an honest appraisal.
Remember that it's fairly easy to make an error that can cause a lot of damage to equipment, and to even shock or kill people who attempt to use something you've repaired or modified (another scary group). That's another area of training that technicians undergo (or should).
As a hobby, I don't know of any activity (for me anyway) that is as satisfying and a continuing source of knowledge than areas of electronics. This will easily hold your interest over the years. By all means, build some projects that others have posted here. You might want to go with something there is a PCB for in the beginning.
-Chris
I also had the impression that Mohan was a young fella.
Hi Mohan,
Don't take this the wrong way please. There are several very good audio technicians out there as well. The example I gave earlier was an extreme one, and this nest of vipers has been at it since the 70's. It was too easy to pull out a good example from their repertoire of crimes against humanity.
I need to make one point that I feel is extremely important to remember when dealing with a service technician in any trade. You are not paying him to replace one or more parts. Lose that concept right away. What you are paying for is years upon years of training, formal and industry in seminars and distributor training. A good technician is very over-qualified for his job description. That's why the really good ones went to other jobs, as I did. You are paying for his space and running costs (hold on, I know you're all heard that one before), equipment costs and maintenance (these are not trivial costs!), the cost of stocked inventory and service information. That includes both computer and paper folks. Finally, you are paying that person to carefully disassemble, check for known faults, replacing the part(s) and cleaning up the unit in that area, then to reassemble and perform adjustments and tests to confirm the equipment is in fact working properly. This can represent hours of work.
So, how much does your company charge out per hour of your time? It's over $100 in North America, I can tell you that for sure. If you make a $40K salary per year, your company has to make that, plus a profit - or you won't have a job for very long.
I'm pointing out that service costs are much lower than they ought to be if you are getting good work done. Every industry has rip-off artists, so just try to make sure you are paying for good work. Starve out the hackers!!
Now, why did I bother mentioning this? Well, because you posted this ...
My worst customers were engineering types who didn't respect the skills of other professions, nor did they recognize when they were in over their head. I love people who can get some things done, just as long as they really do know where to stop and take the unit to someone who is skilled enough to do a good job. BTW, "neighbors who know electronics" are another fairly destructive group. When egos become involved, the equipment suffers. Computer people complete the trio of horrible people to deal with. That is a very general statement, but that is what the averages show.
Another thing I should warn you about. That is doing work and charging for it without having the proper equipment, parts and training. Don't do that. It's tempting enough to try and make some money that way, but you would be doing a giant disservice to those people you do work for. Egos again. By all means, charge for building kits and similar things. Do stay well within your limits of competency, an honest appraisal.
Remember that it's fairly easy to make an error that can cause a lot of damage to equipment, and to even shock or kill people who attempt to use something you've repaired or modified (another scary group). That's another area of training that technicians undergo (or should).
As a hobby, I don't know of any activity (for me anyway) that is as satisfying and a continuing source of knowledge than areas of electronics. This will easily hold your interest over the years. By all means, build some projects that others have posted here. You might want to go with something there is a PCB for in the beginning.
-Chris
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