Most AVRs can do only some 50W per channel or alternatively some 100W into two channels 8 ohms. You could easily see this limitation from the similar heatsink sizes that most AVRs use, irrespective of brand.
To get good sound out of an AVR, run bi-amp stereo with a compression driver for HF duty, subwoofer amp separate. Do not use 4 ohm speakers, car / plate amps are more suitable for such things. Alternatively use a professional amplifier supporting 2 ohms load.
To get good sound out of an AVR, run bi-amp stereo with a compression driver for HF duty, subwoofer amp separate. Do not use 4 ohm speakers, car / plate amps are more suitable for such things. Alternatively use a professional amplifier supporting 2 ohms load.
Of course, it is doing its job as designed.
Those receivers can drive 4 ohm loads, JVC CAN NOT.
Not hard to understand.
To boot, User Manual and probably back panel says so clearly.
Are you trying to invent a square wheel?
GOOD protection circuit.
And it is not "thermal" which is often sssllloooowwww but probably monitoring SOA or at least peak current.
State of the art.
It might also have thermal protection of course.
Main protection is NOT Thermal but current/load dependent.
How do you know?
JVC Engineers know more than all of us combined plus they have LOBG EXPERIENCE, decades of manufacturing hundreds of thousands or even Millions of Audio devices ... who can think about outsmarting them?
A few here have an equivalent or higher level, yet nobody is suggesting to grossly overload amplifiers.
CRAZY idea.
Same as blocking sprinklers in a room so you can light a barbecue inside, bear the curtains and drapes, etc.
Crazy idea.
Technically speaking I get away with using these same speakers on other receivers fine
Read what you wrote: on OTHER receivers.
To each his own, those are all different.
SHOW where anybody said that, chapter and verse or STFU.
The whole Forum is based in DIYing.
Now if you post harebrained ideas such as disabling Safety features, yes, nobody will encourage that.
Nobody said it is worth it.
Maybe there is a reason your ideas do not get traction.
Think "not burning down your amplifier/home" instead.
You got same answers elsewhere?
Maybe there is a reason behind that.
You are building nothing, just dangerously modding commercially built stuff.
What aspect of your DIYing am I missing?
I know NO other DIY/Audio Forum which is as generous as did one: circuits, schematics, build plans, calibration, measurement, simulation, use of dedicated software, PCB artwork, Gerbers, how-to design build and calibrate crossovers, transformers, cabinets, the works.
A TREASURE TROVE all under one roof.
FWIW I came here to LEARN and am learning something useful and new every day, go figure.
How would YOU know something is right or wrong?
Questions in general are answered properly but this is a Public Forum, you can't DEMAND it to replace Electronics101 or do your homework for you.
Knowledge requires personal effort.
With due respect, start again.
Each and every time you will pick something new, something will "click", etc.
I have dog eared books which I have read 10-20 times.
Each reread is worth it.
Even/specially old Classics, think Beranek's 1954 😲 Acoustics, same by Olsen (1948 😲), early 70's Op Amp and Active filter books, general Electronics theory, general PHYSICS books, any dealing with "basic principles" plus all the stuff which came later.
Why do you react that way?
You wanted to do something dangerous, were advised against it, nothing personal.
I find it rather odd that when I want to do a project, and I post about in online the absolute FIRST thing I am constantly met with is "discouragement". And why is it no one ever actually offers actual inputs on forums? Oh they'll tell you their opinions but no actual "if I was you I'd design it like this" and leave examples... it's as if everyone wants to hoard their ideas rather than share them openly. Like how big bran manufactures act, like they need to safeguard this knowledge so they can have a competative advatage over their advisary companies. Could you imagine what sort of tech we could have if we stopped competing and all just openly shared and discussed ideas!?
Also I must say I find it rather funny, how people here reacted to my comments/posts. It's like if I said "it's really bright in here" and a bunch of you chimed in and said "oh you're going to go blind because any level of brightness will blind you! To be safe just keep the level down super low or wear sunglasses indoors just to be super sure your not damaging your eyes!"
... like really how can you tell being halfway across the world how "bright" over here is to me??
Secondly you can't compare "loud" on a cheap $50 Fisher Reciver to a $3000 Receiver with a high end DAC connected with nice $400 Op-Amps installed on it.... A alot has changed since the 70's.. but there is also the quality of an amp, there are in fact some epic amplifiers from these generations of past... but many sources sucked back then (tapes, 8 tracks, LP's) and all of these were also downgraided by the recording industry at the time not having the tech like we do now for recording and mastering. In fact I download a lot of 24 Bit recorded FLAC (lossless audio) albums from bandcamp... (and the sound card I am saving up for currently now supports 32Bit audio at an unreal 384bit sampling rate!).
Also amps list their specs like "this receiver is 130watter with 0.09% THD at that wattage..." where as others say "hey we also have a 130watt amp in our receiver! But when you look at their specs they are achiving that wattage with 10% THD..." that's when you know you're going to get a distorted expereince with possible hearing damage on an amp that has 10% THD, if you play it at loud volumes. Shoot I dislike anything near 0.9% THD... I don't tend to buy it or use. I need clean power that is "distorion free". Also you guy's need to keep in mind the speakers I am using (you never asked how big or small they are if they are like PA speakers or 6inch woofers or 15inch woofers) I mean I'm not listeing to "stadium horn tweeters or raid sirens here" ... in fact I've even begun making my own custom built speakers (reading up on woofer specs, mids, tweeters, cross overs cut offs etc).
oh you guys "it's too loud you'll damage your hearing!" Listen, I've been at this for around 4 decades and I can still hear all the tones in a hearing test fine... so I must know what I am doing. In fact there is a reason why I've not damaged my hearing....
However, before I get into that.... I will share a story of, the only "real hearing damage" I believe I suffered. And please note this was back in the 90's when tech and amps in headphones really were much poorer compared to todays tech/gear. So back in the early 90's I picked up a really nice pair of Audio Technica or similar barnd over ear headphones (that looked much like the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pros with the fuzzy ear piece that went around the ears). Whatever they were, they sounded amazing so soft and smooth. But a few days, later and my father upgraded his reciver, and picked up some Cerwin Vega AT-10's... a day or two later, he was out, so I plugged these headphones into his new reciver and was listening to stuff. Then I think he came home, so I took them off we chatted a bit and then turned the speakers on and started jamming to some tunes on the new speakers. Suddenly I hear this "crackling beat" faintly, and I look in that direction, and I see my headphones are still plugged in, I grabbed them and sure enough they were on at the same time as the speakers! (All our previous recivers when you put speakers on - the headphones shut off - but on this receiver it ran both at the same time! Which is rare/unusual most recivers no will click over a relay when you plug headphones in that automatically shut speakers off) either way, my headphones were blown, and I had just bought them (was $200 or $300). So my dad took them back to the dealer to claim warrenty "they are defective"... the store owner smelt "BS" I think, but my dad had purchased a lot of gear from him previously. So he took them and said ok I'll claim the warrenty. Some time passed, and he never called us back about claiming the warrenty.. so we called he gave us a story "yeah soon". Then afew weeks later we called back yet another story... my dad got ticked off and we went down there in person. The headphones were still sitting on the owners desk where he had left them previously... so seeing us he got up and said "I tell you what here's a pair of Nikko headphones to try, if you like them you can take them as an exhange" he put me on some reciver with the FM radio on to test them. I stood there and immediatly I could tell these were faulty headphones, one side was 2x louder than the other side. It suddenly dawned on me "There were not in a box, he took them out of his office where mine were.... I think these are another pair of returned headphones! And he's also not honored or called in the warrenty on these from another customer & now trying to pawn them off on me". As I stood there listening I was feeling like "no I don't want these they are faulty" but I looked up and my dad finally seeing "justice" was encouraging me, even egging me on to "well take them, at least it's something back" he just had that look .... "WELL??? Like come on, take them! Let's go (like we won)". I wanted to say "but they are faulty too..." however I was scared (I was a young teen) and both these adult men were hovering above me pressuring me to take them. I contemplated speaking the truth about these headphones and saying these are faulty too... but I pictured that is going to cause the store owner to say "are you accusing me of trying to scam you!" and this would start some huge argument in the store (over me) with my dad yelling at the store owner, and us getting kicked out and me getting nothing, so I just shut up and took them. (I wanted to wait for the owner to just send them in under warrenty when he got around to it) but my dad was impatient. And so they were OK if I listened at home on my receiver because I could adjust the balance to make them sound "equal". However... when I was at home I listened to music on speakers and thus the main thing I wanted these headphones for was to use these for walking to school and back or going for bike rides to the park on my portable CD Player. And of course the Left side was much quieter than the right... and there was no balance to adjust, so to hear the left side I had to turn it up more than usual and this made the right side overly loud vs the left and the left sounded "normal". Sadly it was the only pair I had, and I used them often... years later I noticed that all sounds (like answering the phone) was quieter in my right ear now vs the left (since that right earphone was so much louder than the left). I swear to this day that my dad pressuing the store owner coupled with the guy "pushing his scam deal on me" to get rid of a nuisance customer, caused me hearing damage.
That is the only thing I've ever noticed about my hearing that is "off" but as time has gone on I think my brain (being malleable) it has wired it up so that to compensate for this, my right ear is just more "sensitive or more aware" light hightened awareness. Because now it sounds more "balanced" even tho I can tell if I balance headphones "prefect" then reverse them one side is louder than the other. And that is because my level of audible sound is less in one ear than the other.... you know that ear can still hear the same tones that my left ear can (it's just quieter).
Also please note, I grew up with a 60's hippie dad, whom was a music junkie, he had these massive 12inch woofer speakers hung from the ceiling, where he would blast the radio, or play LP's... (you know typical classic rock, The Doors, Alan Parsons, Jefferson Airplane, Iron Butterfly, Pink Floyd into all the great 80's tunes "every body wants to rule the world" and harder rock too like Van Halen, AC/DC ... to softer things like Genesis and Yes, well just about everything he played). And so I was constantly listening to music for hours per day, in fact from the moment I was born and brought home... I would constantly sleep by the speakers or ask to wear those massive black and white over ear headphones with the volume knob on them then fall asleep listening to music. I mean I was just a child but you could tell I loved music and felt so much comfort in it. You'd think I'd have some sort of hearing loss after decades of music pounding in my home....
Yet to this day, I'm the only one who's always notices faint sounds or errors in recordings... or if someone's mic is clipping ever so slightly on a live stream I will point it out. And everyone else will be like "I don't hear anything" and as it keeps happening I keep pointing it out and I often get people arguing with me "the sound is fine for me, maybe it's your gear!" etc and I keep pointing it out until someone who was disagreeing with me suddenly says "ooooh wait I heard it that time I get what he's complaining about, but come on man it's so slight it's not worth mentioning). But hey I am a perfectionist in many respects, and among them, I do audio editing, and remastering of older recordings... I've even sat down and by ear removed all the pops n clicks from a LP recording.
I also have trouble sleeping because I get woken up by the slightest sounds. For example someone in the kitchen crinkling a chip bag or running the water... or a car passing outside on the street, it seems I'm very senstive to sound. And if an ambulance goes down the same street I am on whaling it's siren I have to cover my ears as it's a "peircing noise" that distorts in my ear and hurts my ears, while others look at me like I am insane for covering my ears. But it's like I can "feel it hurting" as if my body "tells me" hey this is "bad levels/tones". I get the same pain when I go to a rock concert... it's just too shrill and hurts my hears so much, that I have to put ear plugs in.
So I think with decades of sound being all around me I have just very sentive and aware of the slightest detail in audio and I can pick up the slightest begining of distortion when playing back music loud I hit that "oh there it is the beat is breaking up turn it down" and my body "tells" me when something is damaging my ears and when it's not. I'm just that senstive.
.... and as if all that wasn't long enough.... but let's also add how not only you but others have made fun of my crying to music, but I guess you'll never understand the way music touches my soul, to me it's like the single most important thing in the entire Universe. It seems to regenerate my soul, which in turn regenerates my body... music is more important to me than anything else. Sometimes music touches me so epicly that I will pour and I mean pour tears of sheer joy all down my face onto my shirt soaking it. It's like pure "ecstasy" "bliss" "euphoria" "my heaven"... I've been forced to go without music for years until recently... and I noticed a lot of changes in my body and health... lacking passion and motivation and meaning and purpose and drive. I once had a "sort of g/f" who would come over and specifically ask me to play some music because she wanted to sit and watch me get all filled up with emotions and cry tears of joy. She had never seen anyone do that... and you know my mom says she gets "rushes" from music which I do as well.
Also I must say I find it rather funny, how people here reacted to my comments/posts. It's like if I said "it's really bright in here" and a bunch of you chimed in and said "oh you're going to go blind because any level of brightness will blind you! To be safe just keep the level down super low or wear sunglasses indoors just to be super sure your not damaging your eyes!"
... like really how can you tell being halfway across the world how "bright" over here is to me??
Secondly you can't compare "loud" on a cheap $50 Fisher Reciver to a $3000 Receiver with a high end DAC connected with nice $400 Op-Amps installed on it.... A alot has changed since the 70's.. but there is also the quality of an amp, there are in fact some epic amplifiers from these generations of past... but many sources sucked back then (tapes, 8 tracks, LP's) and all of these were also downgraided by the recording industry at the time not having the tech like we do now for recording and mastering. In fact I download a lot of 24 Bit recorded FLAC (lossless audio) albums from bandcamp... (and the sound card I am saving up for currently now supports 32Bit audio at an unreal 384bit sampling rate!).
Also amps list their specs like "this receiver is 130watter with 0.09% THD at that wattage..." where as others say "hey we also have a 130watt amp in our receiver! But when you look at their specs they are achiving that wattage with 10% THD..." that's when you know you're going to get a distorted expereince with possible hearing damage on an amp that has 10% THD, if you play it at loud volumes. Shoot I dislike anything near 0.9% THD... I don't tend to buy it or use. I need clean power that is "distorion free". Also you guy's need to keep in mind the speakers I am using (you never asked how big or small they are if they are like PA speakers or 6inch woofers or 15inch woofers) I mean I'm not listeing to "stadium horn tweeters or raid sirens here" ... in fact I've even begun making my own custom built speakers (reading up on woofer specs, mids, tweeters, cross overs cut offs etc).
oh you guys "it's too loud you'll damage your hearing!" Listen, I've been at this for around 4 decades and I can still hear all the tones in a hearing test fine... so I must know what I am doing. In fact there is a reason why I've not damaged my hearing....
However, before I get into that.... I will share a story of, the only "real hearing damage" I believe I suffered. And please note this was back in the 90's when tech and amps in headphones really were much poorer compared to todays tech/gear. So back in the early 90's I picked up a really nice pair of Audio Technica or similar barnd over ear headphones (that looked much like the Beyerdynamic DT 990 Pros with the fuzzy ear piece that went around the ears). Whatever they were, they sounded amazing so soft and smooth. But a few days, later and my father upgraded his reciver, and picked up some Cerwin Vega AT-10's... a day or two later, he was out, so I plugged these headphones into his new reciver and was listening to stuff. Then I think he came home, so I took them off we chatted a bit and then turned the speakers on and started jamming to some tunes on the new speakers. Suddenly I hear this "crackling beat" faintly, and I look in that direction, and I see my headphones are still plugged in, I grabbed them and sure enough they were on at the same time as the speakers! (All our previous recivers when you put speakers on - the headphones shut off - but on this receiver it ran both at the same time! Which is rare/unusual most recivers no will click over a relay when you plug headphones in that automatically shut speakers off) either way, my headphones were blown, and I had just bought them (was $200 or $300). So my dad took them back to the dealer to claim warrenty "they are defective"... the store owner smelt "BS" I think, but my dad had purchased a lot of gear from him previously. So he took them and said ok I'll claim the warrenty. Some time passed, and he never called us back about claiming the warrenty.. so we called he gave us a story "yeah soon". Then afew weeks later we called back yet another story... my dad got ticked off and we went down there in person. The headphones were still sitting on the owners desk where he had left them previously... so seeing us he got up and said "I tell you what here's a pair of Nikko headphones to try, if you like them you can take them as an exhange" he put me on some reciver with the FM radio on to test them. I stood there and immediatly I could tell these were faulty headphones, one side was 2x louder than the other side. It suddenly dawned on me "There were not in a box, he took them out of his office where mine were.... I think these are another pair of returned headphones! And he's also not honored or called in the warrenty on these from another customer & now trying to pawn them off on me". As I stood there listening I was feeling like "no I don't want these they are faulty" but I looked up and my dad finally seeing "justice" was encouraging me, even egging me on to "well take them, at least it's something back" he just had that look .... "WELL??? Like come on, take them! Let's go (like we won)". I wanted to say "but they are faulty too..." however I was scared (I was a young teen) and both these adult men were hovering above me pressuring me to take them. I contemplated speaking the truth about these headphones and saying these are faulty too... but I pictured that is going to cause the store owner to say "are you accusing me of trying to scam you!" and this would start some huge argument in the store (over me) with my dad yelling at the store owner, and us getting kicked out and me getting nothing, so I just shut up and took them. (I wanted to wait for the owner to just send them in under warrenty when he got around to it) but my dad was impatient. And so they were OK if I listened at home on my receiver because I could adjust the balance to make them sound "equal". However... when I was at home I listened to music on speakers and thus the main thing I wanted these headphones for was to use these for walking to school and back or going for bike rides to the park on my portable CD Player. And of course the Left side was much quieter than the right... and there was no balance to adjust, so to hear the left side I had to turn it up more than usual and this made the right side overly loud vs the left and the left sounded "normal". Sadly it was the only pair I had, and I used them often... years later I noticed that all sounds (like answering the phone) was quieter in my right ear now vs the left (since that right earphone was so much louder than the left). I swear to this day that my dad pressuing the store owner coupled with the guy "pushing his scam deal on me" to get rid of a nuisance customer, caused me hearing damage.
That is the only thing I've ever noticed about my hearing that is "off" but as time has gone on I think my brain (being malleable) it has wired it up so that to compensate for this, my right ear is just more "sensitive or more aware" light hightened awareness. Because now it sounds more "balanced" even tho I can tell if I balance headphones "prefect" then reverse them one side is louder than the other. And that is because my level of audible sound is less in one ear than the other.... you know that ear can still hear the same tones that my left ear can (it's just quieter).
Also please note, I grew up with a 60's hippie dad, whom was a music junkie, he had these massive 12inch woofer speakers hung from the ceiling, where he would blast the radio, or play LP's... (you know typical classic rock, The Doors, Alan Parsons, Jefferson Airplane, Iron Butterfly, Pink Floyd into all the great 80's tunes "every body wants to rule the world" and harder rock too like Van Halen, AC/DC ... to softer things like Genesis and Yes, well just about everything he played). And so I was constantly listening to music for hours per day, in fact from the moment I was born and brought home... I would constantly sleep by the speakers or ask to wear those massive black and white over ear headphones with the volume knob on them then fall asleep listening to music. I mean I was just a child but you could tell I loved music and felt so much comfort in it. You'd think I'd have some sort of hearing loss after decades of music pounding in my home....
Yet to this day, I'm the only one who's always notices faint sounds or errors in recordings... or if someone's mic is clipping ever so slightly on a live stream I will point it out. And everyone else will be like "I don't hear anything" and as it keeps happening I keep pointing it out and I often get people arguing with me "the sound is fine for me, maybe it's your gear!" etc and I keep pointing it out until someone who was disagreeing with me suddenly says "ooooh wait I heard it that time I get what he's complaining about, but come on man it's so slight it's not worth mentioning). But hey I am a perfectionist in many respects, and among them, I do audio editing, and remastering of older recordings... I've even sat down and by ear removed all the pops n clicks from a LP recording.
I also have trouble sleeping because I get woken up by the slightest sounds. For example someone in the kitchen crinkling a chip bag or running the water... or a car passing outside on the street, it seems I'm very senstive to sound. And if an ambulance goes down the same street I am on whaling it's siren I have to cover my ears as it's a "peircing noise" that distorts in my ear and hurts my ears, while others look at me like I am insane for covering my ears. But it's like I can "feel it hurting" as if my body "tells me" hey this is "bad levels/tones". I get the same pain when I go to a rock concert... it's just too shrill and hurts my hears so much, that I have to put ear plugs in.
So I think with decades of sound being all around me I have just very sentive and aware of the slightest detail in audio and I can pick up the slightest begining of distortion when playing back music loud I hit that "oh there it is the beat is breaking up turn it down" and my body "tells" me when something is damaging my ears and when it's not. I'm just that senstive.
.... and as if all that wasn't long enough.... but let's also add how not only you but others have made fun of my crying to music, but I guess you'll never understand the way music touches my soul, to me it's like the single most important thing in the entire Universe. It seems to regenerate my soul, which in turn regenerates my body... music is more important to me than anything else. Sometimes music touches me so epicly that I will pour and I mean pour tears of sheer joy all down my face onto my shirt soaking it. It's like pure "ecstasy" "bliss" "euphoria" "my heaven"... I've been forced to go without music for years until recently... and I noticed a lot of changes in my body and health... lacking passion and motivation and meaning and purpose and drive. I once had a "sort of g/f" who would come over and specifically ask me to play some music because she wanted to sit and watch me get all filled up with emotions and cry tears of joy. She had never seen anyone do that... and you know my mom says she gets "rushes" from music which I do as well.
Sad because I spent 5 years taking electronics classes... and I still can't grasp the "concept" because it's never applied to "cause & effect".....they assume all you need to do is memorize the math and you'll know it (conceptually)." You were either asleep or did not attend lectures or practical or both. You wasted 5 years of your life, I am sorry.
There must be a forum somewhere on the internet for your particular craving. You will not find this here I am afraid. everyone here is probably already or striving to audiophile nirvana. You on the other hand are not. Try bridging two of the largest Crown amps you can find (as many pairs as you can afford) and then set up a public address speaker system with as many horn drivers as you can afford. Turn all the gain settings fully clockwise, sit back and blow your mind.
BTW I am so surprised that JMFahey afforded you the time and effort he put into your request. In my opinion you are not worthy of it.
BTW I am so surprised that JMFahey afforded you the time and effort he put into your request. In my opinion you are not worthy of it.
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I am wondering what school you went too for 5 years to learn the little you know about electronics?
If you read a proper book on audio power amp design such as Bob Cordell’s book, it will teach you what you need to know and answer your questions. All for ~$100, probably a lot less than what you paid for your so called education in electronics.
I graduated from a three year electronics course at Centennial College way back in 1980, it did not teach me much about audio power amplifier design.
If you read a proper book on audio power amp design such as Bob Cordell’s book, it will teach you what you need to know and answer your questions. All for ~$100, probably a lot less than what you paid for your so called education in electronics.
I graduated from a three year electronics course at Centennial College way back in 1980, it did not teach me much about audio power amplifier design.
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You could try to connect the two 4 Ohm speakers in series each and attach them to the amp. By doing so you would be able to use the full power provided by the amp without tge current mimiter engaging and without danger of overheating/damaging the output devices.
However if the speakers in series are not identical there will be some sound colorations due to differing impedance changes.
Edit:
The problem with adjusting the current limiter is, you will reach and exceed the output devices' and the power supply's current capabilities.
That can damage the amp but also, you don't get the rated power, but less.
However if the speakers in series are not identical there will be some sound colorations due to differing impedance changes.
Edit:
The problem with adjusting the current limiter is, you will reach and exceed the output devices' and the power supply's current capabilities.
That can damage the amp but also, you don't get the rated power, but less.
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From what I can tell the typically listed ratings listed for any receiver/amp are based on the heatsink's ability to dissipate heat. In fact I have some receiver manuals here that state 4-16ohm speakers only. But in the technical specs section it also lists the amp IC's power output as 2/4/6/8/16 ohms and the wattage measured at each. This indicates to me the IC's are capable of outputting 2ohms but to cut back on costs (since most end users only use 4-16ohm) they install a smaller heatsink, and then rate the unit for 4-16ohms. Where as if they had installed a larger heatsink, the cost would go up (being less attainable to the masses) but would support 2/4ohm speakers as well.
With that said I have a Sony unit here that states clearly the lowest it can handle is 4ohm. And when I ran these 2 ohm speakers (prior to measuring them... as I assumed they were 8ohm + 8ohm = 4ohm) when playing back music loud on this receiver it was within 5minutes, and there was a smell of overheating electronics. I then measured the speakers on my meter to find out they were 2ohms total so I installed a fan on the heatsink, and ran testes again. The unit now plays back on the same 2ohm speakers for hours perfectly now (and it stays cool). In fact I've even left the receiver on for days running sound without issue. So I do believe in general all amps are capable of driving any speakers so long as you counter the load with proper heat disapation.
(And yes also there might be a factor of the power supply being designed to only output a certain amperage/wattage to the IC's - but in the case of this JVC it seems the power supply is cool so it's not maxed out)
I've installed a fan so the IC's are not tripping the thermal sensors.... so I have to assume it's detecting a voltage that is causing the cut off.
Interestingly it seems each channel has it's own amp IC and amp board, which are all the same using the same amp IC's. Except the L & R channels which have some resistors in the location that the other channels have jumper wires - I assume this is what sets the voltage limits and so if I change these I might get more room before it cuts out.
And now I'll get all these warnings "you could overload it or blow it" or whatever - I really don't care this is how I learn what works and what does not. This is also how companies test equipment - trial an error. Like the Write Brothers who took risks to discover how to fly and how not to fly.
Yes well I've explained in another reply that installing a fan prevents overheating. And I also assume JVC would not use a cheap power supply on such a high end unit... I am sure the psu is capable of delivering more power than it's limited to. I think this limit was set based on the heatsinks thermal dispation abilities and not a power supply limit. (The tansformer in here is quite heavy duty and the PSU caps are as well) And I really don't care if I blow it while learning.
The problem is me. I do not learn like others do, I also don't need the same information to understand.
In many cases if you provided me with the "therory of how to ride a bike" I would be 100% lost and unable to learn anything. Where as if you presented me with a visual of someone riding a bike I would not only understand it (without explination or therory of how it all works) I would also be able to repeat it. Much like how a bird "learns to fly", countering turbulent air, and rain etc without understanding the math, of resistances currents gravity etc.... they just "get it" by "feeling/experiencing it".
When I ask others for help understanding all they ever do is tell me to read up on it... but that is just words there is no "cause & effect" I can relate these therories to in my mind.. it's like learning details about a subject without knowing the subject... so I am like ok... and where am I applying these details to? Simply memorizing is not something I can do without seeing a concept to apply it to. I need examples... and when I do projects like this... "this is my example" and how I learn how things are affected by cause (for example applying lower resistor = ?) sure there is a formula to know the "?" but a formula does not show me the effect/result in real world.
(I also did not pay for my classes)
Well, writing words is how a forum works.
If that's not useful for you, why did you write (ask)?
Because people can give words that describe visuals/concepts.
The other day I had a friend ask me about replacing a cracked window in his house, he gave me measurements but via text and I got so lost as to what he was explaining which length was which. I ended up just going over there to "see" the window in person and take my own measurements. With the visual I was then able to store the information in my mind as "this value was this way and that value was the other way" without the visual I could not grasp his values in conceptual ways. If he had explained it visually where he placed the tape measure and in which directions etc I would have had an easier time grasping it without needing to see it in person.
(Math and theory don't provide concepts just "answers"... to me it's like where do these values/answers fit/apply? That is the problem.)
Much like if you had a bushman who came to the civilized world, he might be afraid to get in the shower (not understanding this concept) but if you explained to him the concept of taking a shower is like getting rained on, he will understand without any need to explain the details.
The other day I had a friend ask me about replacing a cracked window in his house, he gave me measurements but via text and I got so lost as to what he was explaining which length was which. I ended up just going over there to "see" the window in person and take my own measurements. With the visual I was then able to store the information in my mind as "this value was this way and that value was the other way" without the visual I could not grasp his values in conceptual ways. If he had explained it visually where he placed the tape measure and in which directions etc I would have had an easier time grasping it without needing to see it in person.
(Math and theory don't provide concepts just "answers"... to me it's like where do these values/answers fit/apply? That is the problem.)
Much like if you had a bushman who came to the civilized world, he might be afraid to get in the shower (not understanding this concept) but if you explained to him the concept of taking a shower is like getting rained on, he will understand without any need to explain the details.
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Post #2 and the schematic already gives you the answer.
Perhaps it isn't a good idea, which is why no one advises you to do it.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime!
Have you ever seen a poorly designed amplifier burn out within seconds of applying power and the heatsink still cold?
What makes you think JVC would design an oversized power supply and use a undersized heatsink, thus limiting the output power?
Perhaps it's not a good idea... (acording to your values not mine).
We did not get to flying airplanes, or launching satalites into space, or splitting atom's based on "it's not advisable" "you might fail or break something". In FACT the very original people who wrote the book's you learned from, learn by trial and error because there was no manuals for them to read and study. So if they learned without reading a book, then maybe just maybe not everyone learns by reading.
As for your fish comment - I don't think it proper or fitting to use as an alanogy for someone who learns differntly... I am not here looking for a hand out a day.... I am here to get one hand out to see how it was "obtained" so I can take that example and repeat it on my own. (I am not a dependant type person.) I learn fast, by example only. Hands on like the original pioneers of the industry did it.
Next: What makes you think JVC would design an oversized power supply and use a undersized heatsink, thus limiting the output power?
#1: Because every single receiver and amplifier I've used (which spans quite a large amount of them) all operate to the point of distortion and even then you can still to increase the volume. However in the case of this JVC, it does not even near the point of distortion before cutting off. Indicating someone was playing it safe.
#2: Most power supplies are not made to exactly match power output to power requirements, this is done to avoid them overheating/failing when driven at full power.
For example when building a PC if the required load of all components requires 840w's of power and I install an 850w PSU, that PSU will likely fail extremelly fast. This is because it's running at nearly 100% load and most heatsinks install are not designed to disipate 100% load worth of heat (it is an easy way of cutting costs).
There for most power supplies used in most electronics are designed to be capable of outputting more power than "exactly what is required".
In the case of a PC requiring 840w of power one who knows how to build a PC will understand this and install a 1000w or greater PSU to extend the life of the PSU. So I highly doubt a large company like JVC would install a crappy power supply/transformer that is only capable of deliviering power at max load.... that makes poor design and is asking for a lot of recalls/failures. It does seem more likely tho to cut costs on heatsinks (which happens A LOT) for example I have a Plasma TV here with heatsinks on the power IC's which run quite hot, this constantly causes the solder joints to fail (from extreme heating when on then cooling when powered off) so I installed an extension onto the heatsink and I've not had the solder joints since.
Either way simply put I could swap the input leads on the amp boards in this unit (to bypass the cut off anyways) as it appears there is no monitoring circuit on the center or rears (yet it still uses the same amp IC's)... and the inputs are clearly "CD Audio cables" from older PC CD-Rom drives.
**As for the last comment "no" I have not seen that however I have seen what happens if you apply too large of a voltage to an amplifier - the IC's will pop/explode. I've never seen one "burn out" from over driving it under audio load.
Take care.
We did not get to flying airplanes, or launching satalites into space, or splitting atom's based on "it's not advisable" "you might fail or break something". In FACT the very original people who wrote the book's you learned from, learn by trial and error because there was no manuals for them to read and study. So if they learned without reading a book, then maybe just maybe not everyone learns by reading.
As for your fish comment - I don't think it proper or fitting to use as an alanogy for someone who learns differntly... I am not here looking for a hand out a day.... I am here to get one hand out to see how it was "obtained" so I can take that example and repeat it on my own. (I am not a dependant type person.) I learn fast, by example only. Hands on like the original pioneers of the industry did it.
Next: What makes you think JVC would design an oversized power supply and use a undersized heatsink, thus limiting the output power?
#1: Because every single receiver and amplifier I've used (which spans quite a large amount of them) all operate to the point of distortion and even then you can still to increase the volume. However in the case of this JVC, it does not even near the point of distortion before cutting off. Indicating someone was playing it safe.
#2: Most power supplies are not made to exactly match power output to power requirements, this is done to avoid them overheating/failing when driven at full power.
For example when building a PC if the required load of all components requires 840w's of power and I install an 850w PSU, that PSU will likely fail extremelly fast. This is because it's running at nearly 100% load and most heatsinks install are not designed to disipate 100% load worth of heat (it is an easy way of cutting costs).
There for most power supplies used in most electronics are designed to be capable of outputting more power than "exactly what is required".
In the case of a PC requiring 840w of power one who knows how to build a PC will understand this and install a 1000w or greater PSU to extend the life of the PSU. So I highly doubt a large company like JVC would install a crappy power supply/transformer that is only capable of deliviering power at max load.... that makes poor design and is asking for a lot of recalls/failures. It does seem more likely tho to cut costs on heatsinks (which happens A LOT) for example I have a Plasma TV here with heatsinks on the power IC's which run quite hot, this constantly causes the solder joints to fail (from extreme heating when on then cooling when powered off) so I installed an extension onto the heatsink and I've not had the solder joints since.
Either way simply put I could swap the input leads on the amp boards in this unit (to bypass the cut off anyways) as it appears there is no monitoring circuit on the center or rears (yet it still uses the same amp IC's)... and the inputs are clearly "CD Audio cables" from older PC CD-Rom drives.
**As for the last comment "no" I have not seen that however I have seen what happens if you apply too large of a voltage to an amplifier - the IC's will pop/explode. I've never seen one "burn out" from over driving it under audio load.
Take care.
Let's say you have a 200A service panel in your home, do you think it would be a good idea to change the breaker on the 15A circuit from 15A to 20A so you can get more power without tripping? It might work for a while, but for how long?
You can do anything to this amp, just don't expect everyone here to agree with you.
Good luck with your experiment.
You can do anything to this amp, just don't expect everyone here to agree with you.
Good luck with your experiment.
I have not bothered to read all you (too long) posts, but if i understand you correctly, you are trying to squeeze as much as possible from some receiver by bypassing the onboard safety limit.
My suggestion would be 'go for it!'.
However, i would use output cap. Even most todays amps work on symmetrical power supply with no output cap, there is no harm putting it there. It prevents untimely death to your speakers.
The amplifier is designed for 8 to 16 ohm loads
So a 4 ohm load would yes cause extra heat.
But the limiter thresholds are pre set the adjustable pot you see on the board
is for bias. Something you should not change. And if tampered with it could be overbiased
and would get hot even faster.
The circuit shown in the post is a single pair of Darlington's
for output transistors. Doubtful it is 130 watts per channel.
To really drive low impedance loads a amplifier with more output transistors
would be helpful.
Otherwise there is a clipping detector on the output as well.
Which can likely limit the preamp signal.
Clipping circuits are usually well set.
So a ideal volume might yes trigger this and no way around it.
Tampering with it would just make distortion audible
when your reaching your listening levels.
I know the frustration, had similar home theatre amplifiers
do the same. If hot they would turn the signal almost half way down.
The fan should help thermal, but if it doesnt it might be set with the clipping detector
on the output.
Ironically had the same problem in my shop system, I just went
to a pawn shop and bought a non Home theatre multi channel amplifier.
and got a older 2 channel Technics. Nothing special by far , but it pushes
my shop speakers rather loudly, and needed for such a large space.
So a 4 ohm load would yes cause extra heat.
But the limiter thresholds are pre set the adjustable pot you see on the board
is for bias. Something you should not change. And if tampered with it could be overbiased
and would get hot even faster.
The circuit shown in the post is a single pair of Darlington's
for output transistors. Doubtful it is 130 watts per channel.
To really drive low impedance loads a amplifier with more output transistors
would be helpful.
Otherwise there is a clipping detector on the output as well.
Which can likely limit the preamp signal.
Clipping circuits are usually well set.
So a ideal volume might yes trigger this and no way around it.
Tampering with it would just make distortion audible
when your reaching your listening levels.
I know the frustration, had similar home theatre amplifiers
do the same. If hot they would turn the signal almost half way down.
The fan should help thermal, but if it doesnt it might be set with the clipping detector
on the output.
Ironically had the same problem in my shop system, I just went
to a pawn shop and bought a non Home theatre multi channel amplifier.
and got a older 2 channel Technics. Nothing special by far , but it pushes
my shop speakers rather loudly, and needed for such a large space.
I am very fond of JVC stuff. I still keep one top of the line 3head deck, one top of the line double deck, very good one cd player, and rather good receiver.
Used to have ton of JVC stuff. Never had issues. Always delivered the goods.
Almost forgot very old JVC i keep in europe at parents house, as my childhood hifi.
Anyway, my current JVC receiver, 2x120 watts, was used for many parties and can shake the house. Run all night long, never cut off due to current limit. Volume cranked up to disco level. Speakers 8 ohm.
There must be something wrong with that receiver op is badmouthing. Besides wrong (stupid) abuse with low impedance speakers.
I hacked (gutted) few broken JVC receivers to harvest power output section. Their SuperA classAB discrete power amps are great sounding amps. Its the amount of line level ic's preceeding the power amp section, which deteriorate the sound, not the power amp section. Its logical to feed the signal directly to power amp section.
Used to have ton of JVC stuff. Never had issues. Always delivered the goods.
Almost forgot very old JVC i keep in europe at parents house, as my childhood hifi.
Anyway, my current JVC receiver, 2x120 watts, was used for many parties and can shake the house. Run all night long, never cut off due to current limit. Volume cranked up to disco level. Speakers 8 ohm.
There must be something wrong with that receiver op is badmouthing. Besides wrong (stupid) abuse with low impedance speakers.
I hacked (gutted) few broken JVC receivers to harvest power output section. Their SuperA classAB discrete power amps are great sounding amps. Its the amount of line level ic's preceeding the power amp section, which deteriorate the sound, not the power amp section. Its logical to feed the signal directly to power amp section.