ah.. punkrokr.. that's BassHead Bob
from the same town I live in (actually helping him with some novel ideas for car audio see the "Stay Tuned" window sticker.) Stay Tuned installations, Lethbridge, Alberta. Bob is a pretty nice guy, but unfortunately tone deaf--and dB Drag Racing doesn't want their competitors inside a vehicle while competing because they even conceed that a single 130dB occurance can permanently damage cochlea (the tiny hairs in your inner ear) and nerve endings. So impressive, but pretty irresponsible. Ask you doctor, or do some research on dB Drag Racing and hearing losses. You may think you want that kinda deafness, but being able to actually hear anything after your 16th Birthday is unlikely if you insist on car audio as a "reference". Once gone, hearing doesn't "come back".
DB drag racing was here in town, yesterday, I really don't follow car audio. BUT car audio is a completely different beast. to do that in a house you will need square feet of transducer area, not square inches.
I don't know why you have your "heart set" on multiple tweeters, and multiple mids. Really, simpler is better. Or perhaps get yer speakers back from your friend and add a very good, very loud sub (like maybe a pair of Horn subs with dual 15's each.)
An alternative is to build the Magna Cum Laudes, and install Aura Bass Shakers to whatever you are sitting on. That'll provide a tactlie experience.
If your only motive is to be different, then may I suggest some 3 watt 2A3 amps, and some beautiful little horns that'll keep your interest and your hearing intact. Throwing power at something is easy (kinda like throwing $$ at something), but throwing intellegence into the mix is more rewarding. Impress your friends with how GOOD something can sound with ONLY 3Watts per channel .
Perhaps the best system I have ever heard, in 20+ years associated with audio is a 2A3 tube amp with Basszilla's, a home made preamp, and a Kuzma "log" turntable.
I guess I'm giving up on you now, because you are not being realistic at all in your ideas.. I'll ask Basshead Bob of Stay Tuned Installations what is in that car exactly, but to reproduce that kind of bass in any home room will be $$$$. I'll even provide you with what it has cost the guy in $$.If you want that kinda bass try here:
the Royal Device
Then you could produce the bass, but not in room with "normal" dimensions, and mom & Dad would have to refinance and re-configure the house
The Apogees (and I've listened to lots of $50k-$100k+ systems ) can be very good. Loud isn't what I'd call one of their strengths and they can be easily damaged. I like them, but they can be thirsty for power and don't play loud in the sense that you think is loud.
With this I must sign off. Punkrokr, good luck. Maybe you should donate your inner ears to some nice person who can't hear anything now, so that someone may actually benefit from your very misguided ideas.
from the same town I live in (actually helping him with some novel ideas for car audio see the "Stay Tuned" window sticker.) Stay Tuned installations, Lethbridge, Alberta. Bob is a pretty nice guy, but unfortunately tone deaf--and dB Drag Racing doesn't want their competitors inside a vehicle while competing because they even conceed that a single 130dB occurance can permanently damage cochlea (the tiny hairs in your inner ear) and nerve endings. So impressive, but pretty irresponsible. Ask you doctor, or do some research on dB Drag Racing and hearing losses. You may think you want that kinda deafness, but being able to actually hear anything after your 16th Birthday is unlikely if you insist on car audio as a "reference". Once gone, hearing doesn't "come back".
DB drag racing was here in town, yesterday, I really don't follow car audio. BUT car audio is a completely different beast. to do that in a house you will need square feet of transducer area, not square inches.
I don't know why you have your "heart set" on multiple tweeters, and multiple mids. Really, simpler is better. Or perhaps get yer speakers back from your friend and add a very good, very loud sub (like maybe a pair of Horn subs with dual 15's each.)
An alternative is to build the Magna Cum Laudes, and install Aura Bass Shakers to whatever you are sitting on. That'll provide a tactlie experience.
If your only motive is to be different, then may I suggest some 3 watt 2A3 amps, and some beautiful little horns that'll keep your interest and your hearing intact. Throwing power at something is easy (kinda like throwing $$ at something), but throwing intellegence into the mix is more rewarding. Impress your friends with how GOOD something can sound with ONLY 3Watts per channel .
Perhaps the best system I have ever heard, in 20+ years associated with audio is a 2A3 tube amp with Basszilla's, a home made preamp, and a Kuzma "log" turntable.
I guess I'm giving up on you now, because you are not being realistic at all in your ideas.. I'll ask Basshead Bob of Stay Tuned Installations what is in that car exactly, but to reproduce that kind of bass in any home room will be $$$$. I'll even provide you with what it has cost the guy in $$.If you want that kinda bass try here:
the Royal Device
Then you could produce the bass, but not in room with "normal" dimensions, and mom & Dad would have to refinance and re-configure the house
The Apogees (and I've listened to lots of $50k-$100k+ systems ) can be very good. Loud isn't what I'd call one of their strengths and they can be easily damaged. I like them, but they can be thirsty for power and don't play loud in the sense that you think is loud.
With this I must sign off. Punkrokr, good luck. Maybe you should donate your inner ears to some nice person who can't hear anything now, so that someone may actually benefit from your very misguided ideas.
OK. Here you go. For Each speaker...
2- Dayton Pro 18" PE 295-085 97dB/W Eff. Each. Each Driver in a 9ft^3 Sub Enclosure with Two 4" diameter Ports 5.8" long. This tunes to -3dB at about 32Hz.
2- Alpha 6 6" Midrange PE 290-400 97dB/W Eff. Each. These could be in small sub enclosures or OB if you prefer.
3- 3-1/4" Piezo Tweeters PE 270-011 94dB/W Eff. Each. Check out the threads here in DIY audio on how to properly load Piezo's.
Arrange the Woofs and Mids in vertical line putting each driver as close to it's mate as possible. Put the tweeters in a horizontal array with the middle one facing forward and the other two angled slightly outward like Peavey used to do with their less expensive PA towers. You could even face one of the woofers to the rear and low pass it properly for BSC if you like but it would look more impressive with both facing forward.
Use passive crossover or tri-amp whichever you prefer.
This should meet all of your requirements. Loud as 7734, Bass adequate for all kinds of rock and even pipe organ at insane levels, huge, at least two drivers of each type, requires a forklift to move.
Heck if you do it right it might not even sound like dung.
mike
P.S. Aannndddd... you don't need no stinking 1500W to drive it. 100W/C should give you realistic jet engine levels.
P.P.S. hmmm... If I had more money than I knew what to do with I might do it just for giggles.
2- Dayton Pro 18" PE 295-085 97dB/W Eff. Each. Each Driver in a 9ft^3 Sub Enclosure with Two 4" diameter Ports 5.8" long. This tunes to -3dB at about 32Hz.
2- Alpha 6 6" Midrange PE 290-400 97dB/W Eff. Each. These could be in small sub enclosures or OB if you prefer.
3- 3-1/4" Piezo Tweeters PE 270-011 94dB/W Eff. Each. Check out the threads here in DIY audio on how to properly load Piezo's.
Arrange the Woofs and Mids in vertical line putting each driver as close to it's mate as possible. Put the tweeters in a horizontal array with the middle one facing forward and the other two angled slightly outward like Peavey used to do with their less expensive PA towers. You could even face one of the woofers to the rear and low pass it properly for BSC if you like but it would look more impressive with both facing forward.
Use passive crossover or tri-amp whichever you prefer.
This should meet all of your requirements. Loud as 7734, Bass adequate for all kinds of rock and even pipe organ at insane levels, huge, at least two drivers of each type, requires a forklift to move.
Heck if you do it right it might not even sound like dung.
mike
P.S. Aannndddd... you don't need no stinking 1500W to drive it. 100W/C should give you realistic jet engine levels.
P.P.S. hmmm... If I had more money than I knew what to do with I might do it just for giggles.
mashaffer said:OK. Here you go. For Each speaker...
2- Dayton Pro 18" PE 295-085 97dB/W Eff. Each. Each Driver in a 9ft^3 Sub Enclosure with Two 4" diameter Ports 5.8" long. This tunes to -3dB at about 32Hz.
mike
...duuude... 40ft^3?
I've lived in dorm rooms smaller than that! I see Cal has posted while I was writing. Now, punkr, if you want big speakers, he's your daddy!
Hi,
for his room shaking and chest pounding, would 120dbA at 30Hz to 40Hz be about right?
If this becomes the target, then what driver diameter and number off and Xmax does he need?
If these turn out to be quite huge then how small/large will the mids need to be to fill the frequency band?
I would be tempted to go D'appolito with a horn loaded tweeter to get the matching SPL and two large mids above and below in one cabinet and then the bass cabinet underneath, but this is guesswork until somebody firms up the target SPL numbers.
You all realise there will be a bill going through the senate barring sites like ours from all under 16year olds. Consequences!
for his room shaking and chest pounding, would 120dbA at 30Hz to 40Hz be about right?
If this becomes the target, then what driver diameter and number off and Xmax does he need?
If these turn out to be quite huge then how small/large will the mids need to be to fill the frequency band?
I would be tempted to go D'appolito with a horn loaded tweeter to get the matching SPL and two large mids above and below in one cabinet and then the bass cabinet underneath, but this is guesswork until somebody firms up the target SPL numbers.
You all realise there will be a bill going through the senate barring sites like ours from all under 16year olds. Consequences!
I would like to hear something like this horn with a big pro coaxial
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=18superscooper
Punk...I am not very confident with your questions... "how to wire..."
You 6-8 ohm request will be difficult with so many drivers
I have said it before; simplicity is the way to succeed
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=18superscooper
Punk...I am not very confident with your questions... "how to wire..."
You 6-8 ohm request will be difficult with so many drivers
I have said it before; simplicity is the way to succeed
OK Punk...I think I have a very nice idea!
First of all, I really think you will need to build horns to get where you want
1. Frontloaded bashorn - you can drive it with a cheap plateamp; you dont need EQ, and not a lot of power
Advantage - no passive crossover components to muddy things
- you will need only one woofer - you will get high SPL without a lot of movement - and its the best way to get bass with PRO drivers, not very deep, but excactly what you want - and its adjustable
2. Midbass - well we will have to find big fronthorn fore a 10"(?)
Advantage - you will need only one driver(?) - high SPL
3. 2" compression driver/horn with wide FR
4. Depending on midhorn you may want to ad tweeter horn
Advantage - at this high frequency you need only a small condensator
OVERALL Advantage - you will have only one crossoverpoint at 800-1000hz with passive components - simplicity(?) - its possible with 6-8 ohm - and I think you could pull this thing off, that is if you can do the woodwork - and its BIG
But you will probpably get 15 before its done
First of all, I really think you will need to build horns to get where you want
1. Frontloaded bashorn - you can drive it with a cheap plateamp; you dont need EQ, and not a lot of power
Advantage - no passive crossover components to muddy things
- you will need only one woofer - you will get high SPL without a lot of movement - and its the best way to get bass with PRO drivers, not very deep, but excactly what you want - and its adjustable
2. Midbass - well we will have to find big fronthorn fore a 10"(?)
Advantage - you will need only one driver(?) - high SPL
3. 2" compression driver/horn with wide FR
4. Depending on midhorn you may want to ad tweeter horn
Advantage - at this high frequency you need only a small condensator
OVERALL Advantage - you will have only one crossoverpoint at 800-1000hz with passive components - simplicity(?) - its possible with 6-8 ohm - and I think you could pull this thing off, that is if you can do the woodwork - and its BIG
But you will probpably get 15 before its done
"we" can't.....
But I've been looking at other alternatives for punkrokr, that are pretty affordable if SPL and slam are what's being asked for.
PD drivers would be nice, but alas are pretty expensive. ($434 USD w/o shipping). I've been looking at Emminence 12CX drivers with their cross over and screw on adapter and horn loaded tweeter. About $140 USD per channel. No fuss, no muss. in a 4 ft^3 box, with a single 4" vent , 4.5" long , WinISD figures a F3 of 50Hz, with Max SPL of about 120 db. Not sure of the transfer functions of the room, but I'm pretty sure a 6 db lift will occur below 100Hz or so.
the Nice thing is that Maximum SPL occurs with less than 100 Watts RMS, so anyone having a good 100 Watt RMS (think Bryston, Crown, or you fave audiophile thing--even tubes!) will be able to reach it. Later if ya want max out the bass with a couple of Horn loaded subs, and suitable amplification and you got a high impact full range system.
As far as the Emminence Betas go, I'm not sure of the sound of them, I'm sure others have opinions.. It can be done. I don't think young punkrokr1701 would aor can do any better for them $$$($280 in parts including Xovers, + whatever for his material of choice-hopefully Baltic Birch, so +$200 for that, decent wire and binding posts)-- I'd say under $600 for the speakers complete.
And perhaps now he could have a good quality 100 watter instead of some over specified, perhaps dubious amplifier.
If quality matter perhaps look at some of the excellent , and well reviewed like Hemp Acoustics, and similar
Who cares about high spl when you have good spl?
But I've been looking at other alternatives for punkrokr, that are pretty affordable if SPL and slam are what's being asked for.
PD drivers would be nice, but alas are pretty expensive. ($434 USD w/o shipping). I've been looking at Emminence 12CX drivers with their cross over and screw on adapter and horn loaded tweeter. About $140 USD per channel. No fuss, no muss. in a 4 ft^3 box, with a single 4" vent , 4.5" long , WinISD figures a F3 of 50Hz, with Max SPL of about 120 db. Not sure of the transfer functions of the room, but I'm pretty sure a 6 db lift will occur below 100Hz or so.
the Nice thing is that Maximum SPL occurs with less than 100 Watts RMS, so anyone having a good 100 Watt RMS (think Bryston, Crown, or you fave audiophile thing--even tubes!) will be able to reach it. Later if ya want max out the bass with a couple of Horn loaded subs, and suitable amplification and you got a high impact full range system.
As far as the Emminence Betas go, I'm not sure of the sound of them, I'm sure others have opinions.. It can be done. I don't think young punkrokr1701 would aor can do any better for them $$$($280 in parts including Xovers, + whatever for his material of choice-hopefully Baltic Birch, so +$200 for that, decent wire and binding posts)-- I'd say under $600 for the speakers complete.
And perhaps now he could have a good quality 100 watter instead of some over specified, perhaps dubious amplifier.
If quality matter perhaps look at some of the excellent , and well reviewed like Hemp Acoustics, and similar
Who cares about high spl when you have good spl?
Hi,
are we saying that 120dbA is a sensible target to meet the brief?
100db/W to 105db/W for a folded horn bass with 100W of amp power just gets there but the box will end up about 23cub ft=650L (based on Labhorn volume/length/mouth). and that's just one channel bass driver. when corner loaded, times two when floor/wall loaded.
are we saying that 120dbA is a sensible target to meet the brief?
100db/W to 105db/W for a folded horn bass with 100W of amp power just gets there but the box will end up about 23cub ft=650L (based on Labhorn volume/length/mouth). and that's just one channel bass driver.
when corner loaded, times two when floor/wall loaded.I dont think you need that much SPL in bass, it would ruin his parents house
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=subplans
How about building one of theese subs, and see where it takes you
And maybe build a "tower" with maybe 4 cheap 8" or 10" widerange with a tweeter
http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=subplans
How about building one of theese subs, and see where it takes you
And maybe build a "tower" with maybe 4 cheap 8" or 10" widerange with a tweeter
Or this one looks rather good for mid, one will do
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-678
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-678
Nice tweeter
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=9622521.2245&pid=666
With the compound sub (one driver) http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=184sub
and B&C mid
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-678
Makes fore a "simple and easy" setup with lots of power; high quality drivers that will take some beating
http://www.madisound.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?cart_id=9622521.2245&pid=666
With the compound sub (one driver) http://www.speakerplans.com/index.php?id=184sub
and B&C mid
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=294-678
Makes fore a "simple and easy" setup with lots of power; high quality drivers that will take some beating
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.