I thought the 5532 is a good chip as well as the OPA2134.
It seems this unit is well built.
What TT are you using? Would changing the op-amps make any difference you could actually hear? You would have to have some mighty fine gear behind it as well as the amp stage to hear sonic diff... IMHO.
Instead if tweeking this unit you may as well build one of your own from scratch using the OP-AMP of choice.
You mentioned the power supply change, not sure what you changed from reading here.
Do you want to clean up the power supply of any noise/ripple? Probably using some good poly or PIO bypass caps would be MY first change and go on from there.
There is no magic wand/part that is going to make any unit into an stellar performer.
If its a race horse, polish the knobs. If its a sows ear... nothing will make it a race horse. (my dad: 1962).
Cheers,
Bob
It seems this unit is well built.
What TT are you using? Would changing the op-amps make any difference you could actually hear? You would have to have some mighty fine gear behind it as well as the amp stage to hear sonic diff... IMHO.
Instead if tweeking this unit you may as well build one of your own from scratch using the OP-AMP of choice.
You mentioned the power supply change, not sure what you changed from reading here.
Do you want to clean up the power supply of any noise/ripple? Probably using some good poly or PIO bypass caps would be MY first change and go on from there.
There is no magic wand/part that is going to make any unit into an stellar performer.
If its a race horse, polish the knobs. If its a sows ear... nothing will make it a race horse. (my dad: 1962).
Cheers,
Bob
Hi,
If Musical Fidelity are not forthcoming with a schematic, best thing would be you take really good quality photos of the PCB.
The AD825 may be too noisy.
There are few Fet input Op-Amp's that have really low noise. The OPA627 is first of all objectively one of the best Op-Amp's for Audio, especially for Phono EQ Stages ever made (no kidding) but it also is among those that deliver subjectively some of the best sound quality.
Relatively to a good Phono Cartridge the price for two pieces is still reasonable.
It depends.
If I had to design a commercial unit based on the A1 style Phono on a tight budget, I would probably put most money into the various audio path electrolytic capacitors (use Elsa Silmic) and the EQ capacitors (polystyrene) first, then target the power supplies using the largest value normal low impedance capacitors that will fit PCB size and budget and keep the 5534 and 5532 Chips.
If I was looking for the maximum sound quality without real budget constrains, I would use much better Op-Amp's as well and probably switch some Elna Silmic's for Film Capacitors and so on. As Phono stages require large amounts of gain and the RIAA Networks present low impedances at high frequencies, many Op-Amp's struggle in these conditions. There are few low cost alternatives to the 5534, but many high cost ones.
With your Technics Turntable, there are a few easy tweaks that can take it up several notches. BTW, the best cartridge for this table, especially as you have an MC capable Phono, is the Denon DL-103R.
Replace the rubber platter mat with a glass one (your local glazier should be able to make one) and use a thin suede leather platter mat (can be hand cut from high grade chamois cloth).
The strobe has been shown to cause a lot of noise on the powersupplies, this seems to be impact on the Direct Drive PLL. Disabling the Strobe or linking it to the switch on the cartridge light helps. The powersupply can be improved by using extra capacitance, there is a lot of empty space in the case, we fitted around 20,000uF extra IIRC. You can also fit a socket for an external power supply.
The metal chassis has a lot of cavities that can be filled be filled in, using car body sealant (asphalt based) stinks for a few weeks (so leave it to set in the shed), but is very good, you can add ball bearing balls or similar to increase the mass.
Finally, build yourself an air suspension platform. There are many instructions on line, you can choose which you can get materials for easiest. My suggestion for the top surface to rest your turntable upon would be a very heavy rubberwood butcherblock, Ikea used to have suitable ones.
In a pinch using a rubberwood butcherblock and four yellow dot squash balls with some wooden rings to stop them rolling away makes a swell suspension system.
The resultant turntable is still no match for really top notch turntable/arm/cartridge combo's, however it will be so good, I doubt you would care much. And yes, it would be worth giving the best phonostage you can come up with.
Ciao T
If Musical Fidelity are not forthcoming with a schematic, best thing would be you take really good quality photos of the PCB.
The AD825 may be too noisy.
There are few Fet input Op-Amp's that have really low noise. The OPA627 is first of all objectively one of the best Op-Amp's for Audio, especially for Phono EQ Stages ever made (no kidding) but it also is among those that deliver subjectively some of the best sound quality.
Relatively to a good Phono Cartridge the price for two pieces is still reasonable.
It depends.
If I had to design a commercial unit based on the A1 style Phono on a tight budget, I would probably put most money into the various audio path electrolytic capacitors (use Elsa Silmic) and the EQ capacitors (polystyrene) first, then target the power supplies using the largest value normal low impedance capacitors that will fit PCB size and budget and keep the 5534 and 5532 Chips.
If I was looking for the maximum sound quality without real budget constrains, I would use much better Op-Amp's as well and probably switch some Elna Silmic's for Film Capacitors and so on. As Phono stages require large amounts of gain and the RIAA Networks present low impedances at high frequencies, many Op-Amp's struggle in these conditions. There are few low cost alternatives to the 5534, but many high cost ones.
With your Technics Turntable, there are a few easy tweaks that can take it up several notches. BTW, the best cartridge for this table, especially as you have an MC capable Phono, is the Denon DL-103R.
Replace the rubber platter mat with a glass one (your local glazier should be able to make one) and use a thin suede leather platter mat (can be hand cut from high grade chamois cloth).
The strobe has been shown to cause a lot of noise on the powersupplies, this seems to be impact on the Direct Drive PLL. Disabling the Strobe or linking it to the switch on the cartridge light helps. The powersupply can be improved by using extra capacitance, there is a lot of empty space in the case, we fitted around 20,000uF extra IIRC. You can also fit a socket for an external power supply.
The metal chassis has a lot of cavities that can be filled be filled in, using car body sealant (asphalt based) stinks for a few weeks (so leave it to set in the shed), but is very good, you can add ball bearing balls or similar to increase the mass.
Finally, build yourself an air suspension platform. There are many instructions on line, you can choose which you can get materials for easiest. My suggestion for the top surface to rest your turntable upon would be a very heavy rubberwood butcherblock, Ikea used to have suitable ones.
In a pinch using a rubberwood butcherblock and four yellow dot squash balls with some wooden rings to stop them rolling away makes a swell suspension system.
The resultant turntable is still no match for really top notch turntable/arm/cartridge combo's, however it will be so good, I doubt you would care much. And yes, it would be worth giving the best phonostage you can come up with.
Ciao T
thanks a lot! I will go back to the table once the phono is done, but thanks nonetheless.
Okay I'll see if I can have the schematic and then if needed take pictures.
Also, I want the best phono possible but a bit limited on cash. How much would I need to get it to a great phono-stage? But honestly, with time, I know myself, and will want to get the best out of this phono; so please, recommend me which film caps to use and where, and which silmic where, I'll pay
. I'll start with that and then change the op-amps; i need two opa627, not twenty!
Jason
Okay I'll see if I can have the schematic and then if needed take pictures.
Also, I want the best phono possible but a bit limited on cash. How much would I need to get it to a great phono-stage? But honestly, with time, I know myself, and will want to get the best out of this phono; so please, recommend me which film caps to use and where, and which silmic where, I'll pay
. I'll start with that and then change the op-amps; i need two opa627, not twenty!Jason
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Hi,
The following is based on the assumption that the circuit closely matches the Phono in the A1 (here: Musical Fidelity A1 - Technical), with the two 5534 as the EQ Op-Amp's and the 5532 as the Powersupply (please do read the information in the link carefully).
In this case I would change the following Capacitors (nubers are taken from the schematic in the reference, so will differ from your Phono) with Elna Silmic:
C27, C32 (use biggest value you can get/fit, voltage can be as low as 4V, bigger is better here), C30
I would replace the Op-Amp with OPA627 and then short out R51/C26.
The output Coupling Capacitor (C29) I would replace with a suitable value film Capacitor, MY PERSONAL preference are Tinfoil types, if you want to make sure you can handle a 10K input impedance at your preamp, you need 2.2uF. Physical size and cost are really the main constraints here.
C28 is already a film type, however upgrading this to a Tinfoil type is recommended.
Finally, the EQ Capacitors (C23/24/25) should be changed to polystyrene types. Philips used to make excellent Tin/Leadfoil & Polystyrene capacitors with 1% tolerance, these would be my first choice, they remain available as surplus, but values and availability is now very limited.
LCR makes several ranges of polystyrene capacitors that remain in production. The versions with extra plastic case are suggested. Last time I looked Farnell & RS-Components carried them.
You can afterwards play with the signal circuit resistors if you like. Those are mainly those in the EQ(R52/R53) and around the transistor input stage (R58/59/60/61). There are many options, I would probably use Takman or Beyschlag Metal Film, maybe the TKD Board type resistors, but these are to found outside the far east, where they justly enjoy cult status.
In the powersupply I would for starters retain the 5532 and try upgrading the 100uF Capacitors to the largest value, small size normal types you can find. Sanyo had a series of very small size, large value capacitors (green sleeve, silver/gold printing), they had 1,000uF/16V that should fit the PCB...
I think in the above, buying from sensible sources the budget should be well below 100 Pound.
The resulting Phono stage should be really of very high quality.
Ciao T
The following is based on the assumption that the circuit closely matches the Phono in the A1 (here: Musical Fidelity A1 - Technical), with the two 5534 as the EQ Op-Amp's and the 5532 as the Powersupply (please do read the information in the link carefully).
In this case I would change the following Capacitors (nubers are taken from the schematic in the reference, so will differ from your Phono) with Elna Silmic:
C27, C32 (use biggest value you can get/fit, voltage can be as low as 4V, bigger is better here), C30
I would replace the Op-Amp with OPA627 and then short out R51/C26.
The output Coupling Capacitor (C29) I would replace with a suitable value film Capacitor, MY PERSONAL preference are Tinfoil types, if you want to make sure you can handle a 10K input impedance at your preamp, you need 2.2uF. Physical size and cost are really the main constraints here.
C28 is already a film type, however upgrading this to a Tinfoil type is recommended.
Finally, the EQ Capacitors (C23/24/25) should be changed to polystyrene types. Philips used to make excellent Tin/Leadfoil & Polystyrene capacitors with 1% tolerance, these would be my first choice, they remain available as surplus, but values and availability is now very limited.
LCR makes several ranges of polystyrene capacitors that remain in production. The versions with extra plastic case are suggested. Last time I looked Farnell & RS-Components carried them.
You can afterwards play with the signal circuit resistors if you like. Those are mainly those in the EQ(R52/R53) and around the transistor input stage (R58/59/60/61). There are many options, I would probably use Takman or Beyschlag Metal Film, maybe the TKD Board type resistors, but these are to found outside the far east, where they justly enjoy cult status.
In the powersupply I would for starters retain the 5532 and try upgrading the 100uF Capacitors to the largest value, small size normal types you can find. Sanyo had a series of very small size, large value capacitors (green sleeve, silver/gold printing), they had 1,000uF/16V that should fit the PCB...
I think in the above, buying from sensible sources the budget should be well below 100 Pound.
The resulting Phono stage should be really of very high quality.
Ciao T
What was posted about isolation is good advice. Isolation WILL make an above average TT sound top notch or close. You WILL hear a difference. There are a lot of variations to DIY suspension/isolation and they work.
Cheers,
Bob
great to have a confirmation that it's a worth it "mod" hell I'll do that tommorrow.
thanks
JAson
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@ Thorsten: thanks for everything, you are of great help and really put time on me, almost making me feel uncomfortable, I'll ask in other threads about how to do the mods you suggested to my TT , so we can keep this one on the phono. Please continu your unvaluable help, crazy that you tell me that a 160$ phono stage can become great after not-so-expensive modifications!
I'm waiting for a answer from musical fidelity for the schematic
I'm waiting for a answer from musical fidelity for the schematic
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Hi Murphy The Cat,
Don't feel uncomfortable. I rather prefer to spend my time constructive and helping someone instead of arguing subjective vs. objective with some blue meanies.
I will continue, but for the next week I'm headed to the seaside to a place that has no internet and only patchy cell phone signal.
As for the rest, if you look up the so-called Analogue Addicts Phono (which has also been discussed extensively here) you will find a Phono that is meant for scratch-build and has many parallels with the Musical Fidelity. Many people do feel it is among my better designs.
Good luck. Until then, if you can post some pictures I can probably figure it out from them, IF you take clear photos and of both sides of the PCB...
Ciao T
Don't feel uncomfortable. I rather prefer to spend my time constructive and helping someone instead of arguing subjective vs. objective with some blue meanies.
I will continue, but for the next week I'm headed to the seaside to a place that has no internet and only patchy cell phone signal.
As for the rest, if you look up the so-called Analogue Addicts Phono (which has also been discussed extensively here) you will find a Phono that is meant for scratch-build and has many parallels with the Musical Fidelity. Many people do feel it is among my better designs.
Good luck. Until then, if you can post some pictures I can probably figure it out from them, IF you take clear photos and of both sides of the PCB...
Ciao T
Hi thorsten,
Musical fidety told me that its impossible to give me the schematic. I will post pictures tonight.
I want to do all the mods you told me to do on the table as well... and I will need guidance that will take time, if you don't care, thats really cool from you, and please feel free to point me to place other people as already talked about all the mod you suggested to do on the table.
I have the technic sl-1200 mk1, the first version...
Musical fidety told me that its impossible to give me the schematic. I will post pictures tonight.
I want to do all the mods you told me to do on the table as well... and I will need guidance that will take time, if you don't care, thats really cool from you, and please feel free to point me to place other people as already talked about all the mod you suggested to do on the table.
I have the technic sl-1200 mk1, the first version...
Hi,
I would suggest you first open your new thread and head over to the Vinylengine.com, register and download the Turntables service manual.
The mechanical side is easy, but time consuming. I guess you could try finding 2-component resin that remains "tacky" when set, I am unsure of what the stuff is called in retail sales down your local building market. Even that will stink a day or two, car body sealant is easy to get but takes ages to no longer stink... You need to see where you can buy lead shot (if it is not banned in your corner of the world) or ball bearing balls.
The electrical side becomes easier with a service manual. Most of it is quite simple.
The Suspension board is really simple.
Buy a rubberwood butcher block of suitable size, or if you can find a marble or granite cutting board. basically anything that is not very resonant when knocked, important is that is non0resonant and stiff and heavy. If you cannot find really heavy stuff mass load it with whatever you can find over at the sports store.
Then buy something that is air-filled.
At the Apothekary you can find doughnut shaped blow up cushions meant for people that broke their tailbone, these can hold a lot of weight, but may be embarrassing/expensive to get. However three of them, limply inflated make a swell air suspension. You may have to occasioanlly re-adjust the pressure.
At the sports shop you can find squash balls, yellow dod is the right kind, you need enough to not "squash" them by more than a third with whatever is on top, I'd say one ball for every 1kG appx... Balls roll, so you need to find some round rings made from wood or plastic (check home stores or toy stores) that you can put under the balls to stop them from doing that rolling thing.
There are also magnetic floater thingies, but they are epensive.
In germany string suspension is popular, you can google it.
I have used in quite a few shapes and guises, I normally use steel HaiFish (Shark) fishing line from the rod and tackle shop (can be a good source for lead shot, incidentally)...
So many methods.
I would suggest to start with the isolation platform.
Ciao T
PS, with a beady eye dollar stores, sports emporiums, household and DIY stores can become a treasure-trove of cheap tweaks and thrills... The principle of an air suspension is the same if you pay 5,000 bucks for the platform or a few bucks for the air suspension cussions and a few more for a large marble pastry cutting board...
I would suggest you first open your new thread and head over to the Vinylengine.com, register and download the Turntables service manual.
The mechanical side is easy, but time consuming. I guess you could try finding 2-component resin that remains "tacky" when set, I am unsure of what the stuff is called in retail sales down your local building market. Even that will stink a day or two, car body sealant is easy to get but takes ages to no longer stink... You need to see where you can buy lead shot (if it is not banned in your corner of the world) or ball bearing balls.
The electrical side becomes easier with a service manual. Most of it is quite simple.
The Suspension board is really simple.
Buy a rubberwood butcher block of suitable size, or if you can find a marble or granite cutting board. basically anything that is not very resonant when knocked, important is that is non0resonant and stiff and heavy. If you cannot find really heavy stuff mass load it with whatever you can find over at the sports store.
Then buy something that is air-filled.
At the Apothekary you can find doughnut shaped blow up cushions meant for people that broke their tailbone, these can hold a lot of weight, but may be embarrassing/expensive to get. However three of them, limply inflated make a swell air suspension. You may have to occasioanlly re-adjust the pressure.
At the sports shop you can find squash balls, yellow dod is the right kind, you need enough to not "squash" them by more than a third with whatever is on top, I'd say one ball for every 1kG appx... Balls roll, so you need to find some round rings made from wood or plastic (check home stores or toy stores) that you can put under the balls to stop them from doing that rolling thing.
There are also magnetic floater thingies, but they are epensive.
In germany string suspension is popular, you can google it.
I have used in quite a few shapes and guises, I normally use steel HaiFish (Shark) fishing line from the rod and tackle shop (can be a good source for lead shot, incidentally)...
So many methods.
I would suggest to start with the isolation platform.
Ciao T
PS, with a beady eye dollar stores, sports emporiums, household and DIY stores can become a treasure-trove of cheap tweaks and thrills... The principle of an air suspension is the same if you pay 5,000 bucks for the platform or a few bucks for the air suspension cussions and a few more for a large marble pastry cutting board...
Care to elaborate Thorsten? I have read your various posts about the DL103 over on romy the cat. I own a DL103 and an SL1300MKIII, but can't seem to get good sound out of the cartridge. A 2M RED sounds razor sharp in comparison. I'm going to try these various turntable suspension mods and see how it goes.
Are there any specific mods for the DL103 on a SL1200 style table?
I hope murphythecat will allow this brief digression.
EDIT: I realize that the SL1300 suspension system is different from the SL1200.
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Hi,
If you like this "razor sharp sound" maybe the ortofon is a better choice.
First, I would make sure that all contacts are well cleaned, on these old turntables contacts can tarnish.
Secondly, the DL-103 comes with two plastic washers, these go between headshell and cartridge.
Unlike modern cartridges, the DL-103 is a child of the Flower Power age and does not appreciate the kind of rigidity and control that it seems the cartridges that hark back to the days Reaganomics and Thatcherism need.
Massive, rigid headshells work less well than low mass, low rigidity designs like the orignial SME Headshells for their 3000 series.
It is important to get the tracking weight right, experiment.
Do not load the DL-103 with 100 Ohm, it will sound dead. It needs to see a 1K load. It is not compatible with common modern low impedance MC Stepups, due to it's 40 Ohm impedance.
The DL-103R is another kettle of fish, it is a little more modern electrically, the mechanics remain the same though.
Ciao T
If you like this "razor sharp sound" maybe the ortofon is a better choice.
First, I would make sure that all contacts are well cleaned, on these old turntables contacts can tarnish.
Secondly, the DL-103 comes with two plastic washers, these go between headshell and cartridge.
Unlike modern cartridges, the DL-103 is a child of the Flower Power age and does not appreciate the kind of rigidity and control that it seems the cartridges that hark back to the days Reaganomics and Thatcherism need.
Massive, rigid headshells work less well than low mass, low rigidity designs like the orignial SME Headshells for their 3000 series.
It is important to get the tracking weight right, experiment.
Do not load the DL-103 with 100 Ohm, it will sound dead. It needs to see a 1K load. It is not compatible with common modern low impedance MC Stepups, due to it's 40 Ohm impedance.
The DL-103R is another kettle of fish, it is a little more modern electrically, the mechanics remain the same though.
Ciao T
I don't necessarily like the sound, just that I do have that cartridge and it sounds good. I really do want the DL103 to work. The phono stage is a Pearl II with the default gain value of 55 db. I know I need more gain and that may be part of the problem.
There were no plastic washers with the DL103. Just screws and knurled nuts. I just have the SL1300 with the normal tonearm to work with. I'm experimenting with the loading and I'll try changing the tracking weight as well.
Thanks for the help!
There were no plastic washers with the DL103. Just screws and knurled nuts. I just have the SL1300 with the normal tonearm to work with. I'm experimenting with the loading and I'll try changing the tracking weight as well.
Thanks for the help!
Hi,
With a standard DL-103 the Pearl should be okay, try 1K+330pF loading.
Funny, I had quite a few over the years, they all came with thin, clear plastic washers...
This does have a replacable headshell, right? IIRC it is SME standard. You can get quite a few other ones...
Ciao T
With a standard DL-103 the Pearl should be okay, try 1K+330pF loading.
Funny, I had quite a few over the years, they all came with thin, clear plastic washers...
This does have a replacable headshell, right? IIRC it is SME standard. You can get quite a few other ones...
Ciao T
I really don't understand people wich invest so much time, money and labor in such things.It will not sound better, no matter what you are doing.All this so called sound impovements are subjective and illusive.Sometimes I too think that one opamp sounds better then another, but the difference is so small, that it's hard to notice, if there is one at all.It does not mean that there is no difference, but the point is that sound comes from the boxes and loudspeakers and if they are bad then nothing will improve it.
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