Hi everyone,
I'm deciding b/w the two. The Q5 pro has great reviews & the TAS5342 chip. However SA-50 plus has a TAS5766M "PurePath" chip.
I can buy the former on Tomtop for $89 including shipping and the latter on Amazon for about the same so price isn't an issue. Although Amazon's painless return process is a plus.
For features, the Q5 has separate optical & aux inputs which will both be used vs the SA-50 plus which I'll have to plug & unplug (same shared port).
Ultimately, sound quality is most important. I'm assuming the "PurePath" brand is referencing Tripath. I also have a Breeze TPA3116 amp (meh) & a FX Audio 502E (better separation, deeper bass, muted highs, but more air) but I still prefer the cheap Lepai's rich & holographic midrange sound.
Also, the SA-50 plus has copper inductors. Since the TAS5342 chip used is now revised but the TAS5766m chip is still in production, should I just put up with the plugging & unplugging of the SA-50? My end goal is to have the LA-2020+ sound and retain tone controls, but without the scratchy volume & tone pots.
I know a lot of my pros & cons don't mean much, however any inputs you have will be appreciated. Thanks!
James
I'm deciding b/w the two. The Q5 pro has great reviews & the TAS5342 chip. However SA-50 plus has a TAS5766M "PurePath" chip.
I can buy the former on Tomtop for $89 including shipping and the latter on Amazon for about the same so price isn't an issue. Although Amazon's painless return process is a plus.
For features, the Q5 has separate optical & aux inputs which will both be used vs the SA-50 plus which I'll have to plug & unplug (same shared port).
Ultimately, sound quality is most important. I'm assuming the "PurePath" brand is referencing Tripath. I also have a Breeze TPA3116 amp (meh) & a FX Audio 502E (better separation, deeper bass, muted highs, but more air) but I still prefer the cheap Lepai's rich & holographic midrange sound.
Also, the SA-50 plus has copper inductors. Since the TAS5342 chip used is now revised but the TAS5766m chip is still in production, should I just put up with the plugging & unplugging of the SA-50? My end goal is to have the LA-2020+ sound and retain tone controls, but without the scratchy volume & tone pots.
I know a lot of my pros & cons don't mean much, however any inputs you have will be appreciated. Thanks!
James
The ' Purepath ' designation is nothing to do with Tripath , SMSL moved away from that brand of chip several years ago now.
Purepath is simply a development programme for tech such as DSP , wireless etc .
The Q5 is a tried and tested model , although the original had issues these were rectified with the release of the Pro model.
The SA 50 plus being newer benefits from the the latest tech and personally i would be tempted to try it over the Q 5 , as for the ' Tripath sound ' i have yet to hear a class D that matches them , to my ears ' standard ' class D just sounds cold in comparison but as many are quick to point out there have been huge advancements since Tripath , unfortunately only your own ears are going to tell you what to buy so maybe try the SA 50 plus first then send it back if you don't like and get the Q5?
Looking at the specs and info from a few sites i'm tempted to order a SA 50 plus myself .
Purepath is simply a development programme for tech such as DSP , wireless etc .
The Q5 is a tried and tested model , although the original had issues these were rectified with the release of the Pro model.
The SA 50 plus being newer benefits from the the latest tech and personally i would be tempted to try it over the Q 5 , as for the ' Tripath sound ' i have yet to hear a class D that matches them , to my ears ' standard ' class D just sounds cold in comparison but as many are quick to point out there have been huge advancements since Tripath , unfortunately only your own ears are going to tell you what to buy so maybe try the SA 50 plus first then send it back if you don't like and get the Q5?
Looking at the specs and info from a few sites i'm tempted to order a SA 50 plus myself .
SMSL Q5 pro seems to have more input options and input selection (switch sources with remote), but less power, 19V DC supply, TAS5342 datasheet states 34V max. recommended DC voltage, 10A max peak current, so it's probably underused in terms of power. This is a multi-chip solution, TAS5342 is just output stage. DAC, EQ and other functions are provided by other chips.
SMSL SA-50 plus seems to have less input options (need to switch sources manually) but more power, 24V DC supply, but TAS5766 datasheet states 26V max. recommended DC voltage, 7.5A max peak current, so in this case output power of TAS5766 is well used but DSP power and features of other chips included could be underused.
In both cases it seems the Chinese are not achieving a good match between product features and the capabilities of the chips used, but it is affordable.
SMSL SA-50 plus seems to have less input options (need to switch sources manually) but more power, 24V DC supply, but TAS5766 datasheet states 26V max. recommended DC voltage, 7.5A max peak current, so in this case output power of TAS5766 is well used but DSP power and features of other chips included could be underused.
In both cases it seems the Chinese are not achieving a good match between product features and the capabilities of the chips used, but it is affordable.
Thanks so much for everyone's input. I can read all day but your direct responses is like speaking with an expert panel.
Given that I like the Lepai's sound, I sometimes think my best bet would be a Topping TP-22 & a ZhiLai (Nobsound) tube pre for $45. One gets tubes, tone control, and a high powered Tripath chip. I read that class D + tubes works well. But then I'm not sure if I want to power up & turn on two devices on my desk.
Thanks for the info about "Purepath". I have a strong hunch that I'm going to agree with you about non tripath class D amps not sounding as sweet on my class D amp adventure. I've played guitar, recorded 4 track and home engineered music for a couple decades so I sorta have a palette if you will. I hate to use audiophile buzzwords but my Fx-Audio Tda7498 sounds more powerful
, accurate & clinical but not as sweet. It could be that missing 4khz to 6/7khz region. It seems like they cranked the "air" - 12khz up to 20khz that music producers boost to get magical results but it bothers me.
Thanks for info that the "tas5766 is basicly the analog tpa3118+dac". Wow, I would've never known. Heard good things about the TPA3118, that it's supposed to better than the TA2020. Yup my Breeze isn't implemented too well since it has blue tooth. I think the gain was set to lowest setting to minimize BT circuit's hiss.
Thanks for info about the chip & dac setup. That's something to consider, how well the sum of the parts are engineered. Since I have to deal with drummers, when I'm not playing I try to keep my music listening on the moderate side, so both units should have more than enough power.
Lastly, thankfully I'm not this indecisive in other parts of my life. Since class D is relatively inexpensive it's sorta like a hobby to enjoy & ponder. I guess I shouldn't have given all 3 of my Lepais to my brother, who is holding on to them like a first born child. I know they are available used on eBay. still debating on which SMSL to get. It's a good problem to have. Have a good one.
James
Given that I like the Lepai's sound, I sometimes think my best bet would be a Topping TP-22 & a ZhiLai (Nobsound) tube pre for $45. One gets tubes, tone control, and a high powered Tripath chip. I read that class D + tubes works well. But then I'm not sure if I want to power up & turn on two devices on my desk.
Thanks for the info about "Purepath". I have a strong hunch that I'm going to agree with you about non tripath class D amps not sounding as sweet on my class D amp adventure. I've played guitar, recorded 4 track and home engineered music for a couple decades so I sorta have a palette if you will. I hate to use audiophile buzzwords but my Fx-Audio Tda7498 sounds more powerful
, accurate & clinical but not as sweet. It could be that missing 4khz to 6/7khz region. It seems like they cranked the "air" - 12khz up to 20khz that music producers boost to get magical results but it bothers me.Thanks for info that the "tas5766 is basicly the analog tpa3118+dac". Wow, I would've never known. Heard good things about the TPA3118, that it's supposed to better than the TA2020. Yup my Breeze isn't implemented too well since it has blue tooth. I think the gain was set to lowest setting to minimize BT circuit's hiss.
Thanks for info about the chip & dac setup. That's something to consider, how well the sum of the parts are engineered. Since I have to deal with drummers, when I'm not playing I try to keep my music listening on the moderate side, so both units should have more than enough power.
Lastly, thankfully I'm not this indecisive in other parts of my life. Since class D is relatively inexpensive it's sorta like a hobby to enjoy & ponder. I guess I shouldn't have given all 3 of my Lepais to my brother, who is holding on to them like a first born child. I know they are available used on eBay. still debating on which SMSL to get. It's a good problem to have. Have a good one.
James
If you enjoy the Tripath sound theres a small uk company called Amptastic who originally started by by modding the original 2020 based SMSL sa 36 .
They spent ten years designing and experimenting and came up with an amp of their own
the Amptastic Mini 1 , using Nos 2020 Tripath chips .
It can be configured as just a power amp if needed, has onboard power reserves , air core inductors comes with a high quality worldwide compatible psu and is built with care by enthusiasts.
They only do production runs once or twice a year and sell out fast .
They cost GBP 99 , i'm sure they would send to the states although it wouldn't be cheap .
Have a google for Amptastic.com theres a fair bit on the net about them .
They're in stock atm so if you like the look maybe drop them an email ?
Just to be clear although i sound like a salesman i have no connection whatever to the company i'm just an enthusiast.
Re Topping TP 22 .... i was never impressed by mine , on paper it should have been better than my Lapai but driving the same speakers it always gave me the feeling of being ' on the edge ' of clipping , had terrible channel imbalance and just sounded dull in comparison.
Amptastic in power amp mode , decent tube pre and you'll be in musical heaven
They spent ten years designing and experimenting and came up with an amp of their own
the Amptastic Mini 1 , using Nos 2020 Tripath chips .
It can be configured as just a power amp if needed, has onboard power reserves , air core inductors comes with a high quality worldwide compatible psu and is built with care by enthusiasts.
They only do production runs once or twice a year and sell out fast .
They cost GBP 99 , i'm sure they would send to the states although it wouldn't be cheap .
Have a google for Amptastic.com theres a fair bit on the net about them .
They're in stock atm so if you like the look maybe drop them an email ?
Just to be clear although i sound like a salesman i have no connection whatever to the company i'm just an enthusiast.
Re Topping TP 22 .... i was never impressed by mine , on paper it should have been better than my Lapai but driving the same speakers it always gave me the feeling of being ' on the edge ' of clipping , had terrible channel imbalance and just sounded dull in comparison.
Amptastic in power amp mode , decent tube pre and you'll be in musical heaven
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Just to add ... the 2020 Tripath Lapai/Lepy has been ' updated ' and now uses a 3118 chip its called the 2020 TI and could be another ' toy ' to have a play with , i can't source one in the uk yet Amazon etc still list the 2020 A which uses a Chinese branded chip not Tripath and was a stopgap between the older 2020 A + and the new version .
Parts Express will have them though.
like you i find class d provides a relatively cheap way of feeding my habit and urge to tinker and experiment now that i have a ' main ' system i' m content with ( for now ) .
Parts Express will have them though.
like you i find class d provides a relatively cheap way of feeding my habit and urge to tinker and experiment now that i have a ' main ' system i' m content with ( for now ) .
Thanks for the info re Topping. I believe ya & have it crossed off. I'm sure the TK2050 is a nice chip but the amp appears poorly implemented.
The amptastic looks very promising. However I went ahead and bought the 2020TI today since it's only $32 shipped from Parts Express. A couple Tripath fans on youtube dont like it as much but it's got decent reviews elsewhere. I will report back.
I'll prob eventually do a DAC>tube pre>Amptastic in the near future & gift the breeze amp to someone.
Thanks for your help.
The amptastic looks very promising. However I went ahead and bought the 2020TI today since it's only $32 shipped from Parts Express. A couple Tripath fans on youtube dont like it as much but it's got decent reviews elsewhere. I will report back.
I'll prob eventually do a DAC>tube pre>Amptastic in the near future & gift the breeze amp to someone.
Thanks for your help.
Just to add I have been enjoying tripath for a good 5 years or so now .. my main system is tripath with valve pre from a heavily modified DAC but this setup has not been re-connected again since buying a Q5 pro. It has a few limitations but when not pushed hard it produces the most lifelike sound stage I have yet heard .. the downside being any slight flaws in the recording process is very evident in some cases making it sound hard.
I still enjoy tripath on my office system but I am of the opinion it is rose tinted now .. which is nice on the ears especial with some valves to add to the rosyness but my feeling now is its not what was going into the original recording process. (those old Kodachrome photos look great don't they .. but are they a good representation?)
I spent my early years running recording studios and some of my masters come through the this "direct digital system" sounding much as i remember them when usually I would say .. "sure they used to sound better than this at the time".
What is surprising is the Q5 goes to quite high volumes but the sweet spot disappears.. I intend to swap the output inductors and run from a battery source just as soon as i can find the time. I get the strong feeling this technology will blow us all away v soon .. much as tripath did to me some years ago.
In the end it makes so much sense NOT to render a signal to analogue only for Tripath or some other class D chip to re-sample it again into PWM.. I am now thinking PCM -> PWM is a shorter more accurate route (and just think no arguments about which analogue coupling caps sound best).
I still enjoy tripath on my office system but I am of the opinion it is rose tinted now .. which is nice on the ears especial with some valves to add to the rosyness but my feeling now is its not what was going into the original recording process. (those old Kodachrome photos look great don't they .. but are they a good representation?)
I spent my early years running recording studios and some of my masters come through the this "direct digital system" sounding much as i remember them when usually I would say .. "sure they used to sound better than this at the time".
What is surprising is the Q5 goes to quite high volumes but the sweet spot disappears.. I intend to swap the output inductors and run from a battery source just as soon as i can find the time. I get the strong feeling this technology will blow us all away v soon .. much as tripath did to me some years ago.
In the end it makes so much sense NOT to render a signal to analogue only for Tripath or some other class D chip to re-sample it again into PWM.. I am now thinking PCM -> PWM is a shorter more accurate route (and just think no arguments about which analogue coupling caps sound best).
Thanks for your post. This definitely covers the road I'm traveling.
Regarding the Lepai Tripath, the sound could very well be rose tinted. Perhaps there's subtle "spatializer" or chorusing going on. However, it's undetectable on cymbals and I don't hear anything out of phase. I've had suspicions but didnt want to ruin the experience so didn't dwell on it.
I'm almost positive one of my new amps, the the bizzarely named DEAFidelity AV380 hybrid tube amp - fantastically implemented imo - has built in psycho acoustic processing. The super wet snare on Madonna's Borderline turns very dry on it. I remember a Popular Mechanics ad from back in the day that touted a car stereo that removes reverb & enhances sound. This was ages ago, and I wouldn't be surprised if that technology trickled over.
Thanks to your review about the Q5's sound quality I will also get that. My 2020TI hasnt even arrived yet lol. I definitely want to take advantage of the direct digital. Had to get a nice sound card on one computer, but for the price of that card I can get this.
I definitely think we're in revolution of amp technology
Regarding the Lepai Tripath, the sound could very well be rose tinted. Perhaps there's subtle "spatializer" or chorusing going on. However, it's undetectable on cymbals and I don't hear anything out of phase. I've had suspicions but didnt want to ruin the experience so didn't dwell on it.
I'm almost positive one of my new amps, the the bizzarely named DEAFidelity AV380 hybrid tube amp - fantastically implemented imo - has built in psycho acoustic processing. The super wet snare on Madonna's Borderline turns very dry on it. I remember a Popular Mechanics ad from back in the day that touted a car stereo that removes reverb & enhances sound. This was ages ago, and I wouldn't be surprised if that technology trickled over.
Thanks to your review about the Q5's sound quality I will also get that. My 2020TI hasnt even arrived yet lol. I definitely want to take advantage of the direct digital. Had to get a nice sound card on one computer, but for the price of that card I can get this.
I definitely think we're in revolution of amp technology
I think he's referring to class D being the future of amplification .
There was lots of speculation when Tripath 's ' chip that changed the world ' hit the market that the ' new ' tech would be the hi - fi equivalent of sliced bread .
Much though i love class d personally, although a few mainstream manufacturers have the odd model , i don't think it will ' take over ' .
Enthusiasts of any sort are a stubborn bunch and ' know what they like ' , once a preference has been established it 's hard for some to adopt a change , good for 'us ' fan's though without a widespread mass market it keeps the tech cheap enough to be affordable , experimental and still be able to eat
There was lots of speculation when Tripath 's ' chip that changed the world ' hit the market that the ' new ' tech would be the hi - fi equivalent of sliced bread .
Much though i love class d personally, although a few mainstream manufacturers have the odd model , i don't think it will ' take over ' .
Enthusiasts of any sort are a stubborn bunch and ' know what they like ' , once a preference has been established it 's hard for some to adopt a change , good for 'us ' fan's though without a widespread mass market it keeps the tech cheap enough to be affordable , experimental and still be able to eat
Thanks for clarification. I would've never known what the touchiness was about. It actually doesn't matter to me if class D is the future. I just think it's neat it's shown up in places where size, cost, weight & especially efficiency matters such as car stereo & live sound reinforcement etc. I would never say viva la revolucion
I have zero idea what the technological limits are in class d vs a,b,ab & even tubes.
I have zero idea what the technological limits are in class d vs a,b,ab & even tubes.
If you're interested, here's $6k (in early 90's money & tech) in hybrid tube preamp & amp.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzK6jOCpMjo
I think everything is still there: treble, mids, bass. The Lepai is shown unconnected at the beginning. I love this amp but was also enthralled with the Lepai.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzK6jOCpMjo
I think everything is still there: treble, mids, bass. The Lepai is shown unconnected at the beginning. I love this amp but was also enthralled with the Lepai.
Never heard of Counterpoint so i did a bit of searching , as always mixed views ranging from astounding to c*** .
Seems they weren't the most reliable of amps either, 6 k tor a ss/tube amp or $20 for a Tripath , sound per pound Class D does it for me every time
I still think once you hear a tube / tripath / set up you'll be selling them on ebay
Seems they weren't the most reliable of amps either, 6 k tor a ss/tube amp or $20 for a Tripath , sound per pound Class D does it for me every time
I still think once you hear a tube / tripath / set up you'll be selling them on ebay
I guess i should have qualified the setup given I was talking digital source here only .. the Q5 fed from optical definitely has a special something (that will not be everyone's taste i am sure) .. on a 24/192 recordings its quite sublime!! even the dog thinks someone is in the room and looks at the speakers on certain transients... i find the decoupling of optical seems to render better and 'blacker' than USB.
The Q5 output has been downgraded for size and power supply (~20v) when the chip will take 34 .. I hope SMSL or someone makes something like this with a bit more care and choice of components v soon combined with the full output potential .. I would buy such a thing in a flash.
The Q5 output has been downgraded for size and power supply (~20v) when the chip will take 34 .. I hope SMSL or someone makes something like this with a bit more care and choice of components v soon combined with the full output potential .. I would buy such a thing in a flash.
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