Variac's last post hit the nail on the head for me. The over-the-top wording of the description made it sound that way. The warranty statement made it sound even more so.
The rest of the arguments were simply made against justifying such a venture.
I've nothing against selling DIY projects, in fact for many it's the only way to gain provisions for more projects and I encourage it.
I jumped on it because I have always hated marketing hype and if it's one of 'us' spewing it out it sickens me a little. I understand wording the discription well brings more interest, but this one was just too far fetched for me. True, the information given is factual but written in a deceptive way... read it as someone without a clue as to the true nature of the item, than analyze it using what you know.
I did not, or intend to, attack Karma personally. I have no clue as to what he thought of or felt about what he was doing. It was the action I did not like and struck against, he should not be offended. I, and I'm sure all others, have done things that deserve negative criticism but it doesn't make them hate worthy. Maybe I went over-the-top myself, but please forgive, I get overly passionate at times.
I still don't like that description, but I could have made my statements gentler.
The rest of the arguments were simply made against justifying such a venture.
I've nothing against selling DIY projects, in fact for many it's the only way to gain provisions for more projects and I encourage it.
I jumped on it because I have always hated marketing hype and if it's one of 'us' spewing it out it sickens me a little. I understand wording the discription well brings more interest, but this one was just too far fetched for me. True, the information given is factual but written in a deceptive way... read it as someone without a clue as to the true nature of the item, than analyze it using what you know.
I did not, or intend to, attack Karma personally. I have no clue as to what he thought of or felt about what he was doing. It was the action I did not like and struck against, he should not be offended. I, and I'm sure all others, have done things that deserve negative criticism but it doesn't make them hate worthy. Maybe I went over-the-top myself, but please forgive, I get overly passionate at times.
I still don't like that description, but I could have made my statements gentler.
carlosfm said:
Guys, if you wanna make a real Gaincard clone you need to get the same guy to make the solder joints for you.
...then hide it all in a flashy box so that no one will ever know!
Anyway. 100 points to Karma for marketing, 0 points for comparisons. Personally I just don't see the connection to the Gain Card, but I will give him the benefit of the doubt... I honestly believe that he was honestly believing in what he has done. He even called the psu a "humpty" on this very forum, and seems to think that the GC design originated from 47 Labs and was not in the public domain courtesy of National Semi.
Nevertheless, I hope that Karma has not dipped in to see what has been said about all this. Lesser things have demoralised many.
While I found Karma's description rather OTT (to put it nicely), I wondered just how I would have gone about advertising a GC on Ebay.
After all, I doubt that more than one Ebayer in a 1000 has been to this forum or knows anything about how good these amps are.
Of course, you can say that the GC is very good, but we would[/] say that if we were trying to sell them.
So to put over the true value of the GC, some reference has to be made to something similar in the commercial market. However, IMHO, that could have been done a little more subtley in this case.
PS I don't believe he is really giving up DIY hi-fi!
After all, I doubt that more than one Ebayer in a 1000 has been to this forum or knows anything about how good these amps are.
Of course, you can say that the GC is very good, but we would[/] say that if we were trying to sell them.
So to put over the true value of the GC, some reference has to be made to something similar in the commercial market. However, IMHO, that could have been done a little more subtley in this case.
PS I don't believe he is really giving up DIY hi-fi!
Nuuk said:
What about something like this:
"Integrated amplifier and PSU.
Uses a very high quality integrated power amp stage from National Semiconductors, highly regarded for very high sound quality and used by some top and very respected high-end audio brands like Jeff-Rowland and 47Labs.
The amplifier is obtimized for the shortest possible signal path.
The PSU is made with an oversized high-quality toroidal transformer and ultra-fast diodes.
Results are impressive, this is a one-time opportunity for you to have a very high quality amplifier at an affordable price."
Would I sell the bike?
"Would I sell the bike?"
XXXX
nope.
and falcot's wrong precisely where you went wrong.. 100 = COMPARISON.
no, not comparing the internals to that of the Gaincard - thats is NOT what is important. What IS important is the Gaincard's P R I C E!!!
Simple economic substitution. If the purchaser is getting something HALF as good (soundwise) as the Gaincard for about 10% of the price, and they can live with the esthetics, then that gets the product sold. This is particularly true if the sale price is low enough for the purchaser to feel like they haven't lost much if the thing is 100% worthless and the seller bombs on the warrenty, (and of course with the warrenty their is still the hope that satisfaction is more or less guaranteed).
XXXX
nope.
and falcot's wrong precisely where you went wrong.. 100 = COMPARISON.
no, not comparing the internals to that of the Gaincard - thats is NOT what is important. What IS important is the Gaincard's P R I C E!!!
Simple economic substitution. If the purchaser is getting something HALF as good (soundwise) as the Gaincard for about 10% of the price, and they can live with the esthetics, then that gets the product sold. This is particularly true if the sale price is low enough for the purchaser to feel like they haven't lost much if the thing is 100% worthless and the seller bombs on the warrenty, (and of course with the warrenty their is still the hope that satisfaction is more or less guaranteed).
ScottG said:
I do agree with you, but I would not be satisfied with sound that is HALF as good. My half-watt 9-volt chip amp that I threw together in a cardboard box for about $10 must sound at least half as good as anything on the market.
My only objection was the marketing hype. I don't have a problem with Karma, nor his amp, nor the price that he will get for it.
Build and enjoy, and sell if you want.
Carlos.. I don't take it too seriously, your post was a rather nice way to illustrate what is important with an ebay offering like this.
This would allow perhaps another on this board contemplating the sale of their DIY the opportunity to get a feel for what others feel is appropriate and at the same time actually make a viable sale. (i.e. give validity to this thread, which is why I've taken the time to respond here.)
"Anyway, I would find more honest to say that the amp uses a component used by some other brands than say that the whole amp is a clone of X."
Remember that this sentiment is from the perspective of a designer, (you Carlos), more than a DIY'er with little technical ability. (And in fact others that seem to be having troubles with this ebay offering seem to share the same sentiment.. i.e. the objection to the characterization of the power supply as a "Power Humpty" and the like.)
Understand that more than likely the majority of those coming to this board have little technical ability, and essentially want to reproduce "brand x" (in this case a GainCard) that performs near-to or better than the original for as little cash as possible while having the pride of acomplishment in saying: "I made this and it works fairly well", (and perhaps gaining a bit of technical ability in the process). In this sense the comparison between "brand x" is fundamental to the creation of the "clone" (and hence the reason for the term "clone"). Of course both the technically astute, such as yourself, and the lay DIY'er recognize that the "clone" is not, (and OBVIOUSLY NOT), a pure clone of the original.
So where is the difference? The lay DIY'er thinks that it is so close that the differences are EFFECTIVELY indistinguishable from the original (at least sonically). Sure, the clone may be a little worse.. but it could very well be that the clone is a little better - afterall, how many have actually heard a GainCard and compared a clone to the original? (And remember that no DIY'er, technically astute or otherwise, wants to create something that is sonically inferior, so that in the end they hope they have created something that is actually superior to the original.) So from this perspective it is not only "splitting hairs" over the exact construction of the clone, but it would also work a disservice to the potential purchaser to NOT compare it to the original.
(How is that?) Presumably the average purchaser has as little, (and more likely less), technical abilty as the average DIY'er. To state something has similar components to multiple brands is virtually meaningless to the purchaser - you might as well say "do do do dah". Additionally, just because the purchaser may be a lay individual, (in this area of interest), does NOT mean that the person is stupid. Ask yourself this, if you know of a component from well reputed brand x and a component from well reputed brand y is used to create a piece of electronics - does this mean your creation will be similar to either brand (..or that it will ensure quality)? In otherwords you, (just like the average prospective purchaser), have no real frame of reference for a meaningfull decision on the end product itself. At least the natural comparison to the original DOES give a frame of reference that is usefull to the propective purchaser in making a decision (i.e. that the DIY'er intended the clone to be very similar to the original sonically via very similar electrical construction).
Also stating the subjective results of the "clone" is self-serving, though not neccesarily worthless. Because of this the average purchaser will give this little weight (if any) in making a purchase decision. Furthermore IF the seller doesn't really believe this then they would be lying - and hopefully they have decided against this, but of course there is no way for the prospective purchaser to know this (..so again, little weight is given by the purchaser if this is included in the description).
Additionally, give the prospective purchaser some credit. Do you REALLY think that they will believe they are getting an exact copy of the original? (heck, the photos alone tell anyone that is not the case.)
and in this similar vein of reasoning..
Falcott - do you really think the purchaser will believe the marketing hype? (especially on what is obviously not an original..)
The clone for sale in this case is untested, its an unknown to the prospective purchaser beyond the fact that the seller is stating the "copy" is a "clone" of the original. Ummm, maybe thats why it isn't selling for anywhere near what the original sells for? In otherwords the prospective purchaser knows what's-what. They know they are taking a risk, and becuase of this the price is what it is (i.e. a LOT less).
So, instead of fighting the crusade for truth in advertising (which the general buying public not only knows is futile, but actually doesn't want), let the market do its thing unless there is a SERIOUS abuse. Otherwise, all your doing is not only beating your head against the proverbial wall, but you are actually being condesending to the average consumer - by implicitly assuming that they don't know what's-what.
(of course, like I've stated previously - the absurd marketing hype that so many find offensive is NOT the marketing "genius" of Karma, but rather that of 47 Labs.. simply copied by Karma from their website so that Karma could be more effective in his comparison. And once again of course, the prospective purchaser won't be fooled by this. Afterall, the ONLY reason why the GainCard has achieved the marketing prowess it has is through the subjective reviews in various mag.s and the proverbial "word on the street", NOT the marketing hype blurb on their website.)
And finally..
I'm with you Falcott - I wouldn't be satisfied if the sound is only half-as-good as the original, but then again neither would I purchase someones obvious DIY attempt. What fundamentally seperates us from those that would purchase such is a willingness (desire, ..compulsion?) to DIY. (no doubt a vanity on our part.. sing it with me: "anything you can do I can do better".)
This would allow perhaps another on this board contemplating the sale of their DIY the opportunity to get a feel for what others feel is appropriate and at the same time actually make a viable sale. (i.e. give validity to this thread, which is why I've taken the time to respond here.)
"Anyway, I would find more honest to say that the amp uses a component used by some other brands than say that the whole amp is a clone of X."
Remember that this sentiment is from the perspective of a designer, (you Carlos), more than a DIY'er with little technical ability. (And in fact others that seem to be having troubles with this ebay offering seem to share the same sentiment.. i.e. the objection to the characterization of the power supply as a "Power Humpty" and the like.)
Understand that more than likely the majority of those coming to this board have little technical ability, and essentially want to reproduce "brand x" (in this case a GainCard) that performs near-to or better than the original for as little cash as possible while having the pride of acomplishment in saying: "I made this and it works fairly well", (and perhaps gaining a bit of technical ability in the process). In this sense the comparison between "brand x" is fundamental to the creation of the "clone" (and hence the reason for the term "clone"). Of course both the technically astute, such as yourself, and the lay DIY'er recognize that the "clone" is not, (and OBVIOUSLY NOT), a pure clone of the original.
So where is the difference? The lay DIY'er thinks that it is so close that the differences are EFFECTIVELY indistinguishable from the original (at least sonically). Sure, the clone may be a little worse.. but it could very well be that the clone is a little better - afterall, how many have actually heard a GainCard and compared a clone to the original? (And remember that no DIY'er, technically astute or otherwise, wants to create something that is sonically inferior, so that in the end they hope they have created something that is actually superior to the original.) So from this perspective it is not only "splitting hairs" over the exact construction of the clone, but it would also work a disservice to the potential purchaser to NOT compare it to the original.
(How is that?) Presumably the average purchaser has as little, (and more likely less), technical abilty as the average DIY'er. To state something has similar components to multiple brands is virtually meaningless to the purchaser - you might as well say "do do do dah". Additionally, just because the purchaser may be a lay individual, (in this area of interest), does NOT mean that the person is stupid. Ask yourself this, if you know of a component from well reputed brand x and a component from well reputed brand y is used to create a piece of electronics - does this mean your creation will be similar to either brand (..or that it will ensure quality)? In otherwords you, (just like the average prospective purchaser), have no real frame of reference for a meaningfull decision on the end product itself. At least the natural comparison to the original DOES give a frame of reference that is usefull to the propective purchaser in making a decision (i.e. that the DIY'er intended the clone to be very similar to the original sonically via very similar electrical construction).
Also stating the subjective results of the "clone" is self-serving, though not neccesarily worthless. Because of this the average purchaser will give this little weight (if any) in making a purchase decision. Furthermore IF the seller doesn't really believe this then they would be lying - and hopefully they have decided against this, but of course there is no way for the prospective purchaser to know this (..so again, little weight is given by the purchaser if this is included in the description).
Additionally, give the prospective purchaser some credit. Do you REALLY think that they will believe they are getting an exact copy of the original? (heck, the photos alone tell anyone that is not the case.)
and in this similar vein of reasoning..
Falcott - do you really think the purchaser will believe the marketing hype? (especially on what is obviously not an original..)
The clone for sale in this case is untested, its an unknown to the prospective purchaser beyond the fact that the seller is stating the "copy" is a "clone" of the original. Ummm, maybe thats why it isn't selling for anywhere near what the original sells for? In otherwords the prospective purchaser knows what's-what. They know they are taking a risk, and becuase of this the price is what it is (i.e. a LOT less).
So, instead of fighting the crusade for truth in advertising (which the general buying public not only knows is futile, but actually doesn't want), let the market do its thing unless there is a SERIOUS abuse. Otherwise, all your doing is not only beating your head against the proverbial wall, but you are actually being condesending to the average consumer - by implicitly assuming that they don't know what's-what.
(of course, like I've stated previously - the absurd marketing hype that so many find offensive is NOT the marketing "genius" of Karma, but rather that of 47 Labs.. simply copied by Karma from their website so that Karma could be more effective in his comparison. And once again of course, the prospective purchaser won't be fooled by this. Afterall, the ONLY reason why the GainCard has achieved the marketing prowess it has is through the subjective reviews in various mag.s and the proverbial "word on the street", NOT the marketing hype blurb on their website.)
And finally..
I'm with you Falcott - I wouldn't be satisfied if the sound is only half-as-good as the original, but then again neither would I purchase someones obvious DIY attempt. What fundamentally seperates us from those that would purchase such is a willingness (desire, ..compulsion?) to DIY. (no doubt a vanity on our part.. sing it with me: "anything you can do I can do better".)
Sandy H. said:
I didn't put any text on the board, except for the "2" on the lastest revision, indicating that it is revision 2. I didn't put my name on the board.
ScottG said:
I have no sales agreement, except for "use at your own risk". I do not have any problems with an amplifier being sold based off of the boards that Peter and I created. The circuit used is public domain, so there shouldn't be any intellectual property violations with the design. I wouldn't go as far as to associate the gainclone created with my boards with the 47 labs design, but their amplifier is based off the National Semiconductor application note. The amplifier created from my kit isn't an exact clone of the gaincard, so I wouldn't expect it to be advertised as such.
I have shipped out a quite a few boards out to various places around the world (over 20 countries), and I wouldn't doubt that several amps created with the boards have already been sold by various people. I do not have a problem with amplifiers created with the kit being sold.
--
Brian
*For Reference to others in the future when no doubt the ebay post will not be available, here it is (minus the pictures):
Winning bid: US $306.99 (Approximately C $398.26)
Ended: 17-Sep-04 21:56:39 EDT
Start time: 10-Sep-04 21:56:39 EDT
History: 24 bids (US $0.99 starting bid)
General Description
Custom 47 LAB GAINCLONE STEREO AMPLIFIER w/ Power Humpty
You are bidding on a customized home made clone of the world famous 4706 Gaincard from 47 Laboratories amplifier. The model 4706 Gaincard from 47 Laboratories is a 25 wpc stereo amplifier powered by an external power supply. It uses a power op amp IC and a minimum of parts, all connected in such a way as to minimize the length of signal path, particularly the feedback loop.An extremely low parts count and reputably very fine sound, Junji Kimura's Gaincard held the fascination of many at over 3000.00$ US.This unit uses metal film resistors . Here are some features; ******World's smallest number of parts - 7 parts per channel. World's shortest signal pass length - 32 mm ( including the length of parts ) World's shortest NFB loop length - 9 mm ( including the length of the resistor ) World's smallest filter/condenser - 1000µF, Powerful voltage regulation with high capacity transformer. Dual mono construction in a very thick and strong chassis milled from a solid aluminum block.( no RFs here ). The aluminum chassis construction will release vibrations smoothly. The LM3875TF chip and all main parts are new. Gain = 27dB (22x) [Listener] or 30dB (32x) [Stereophile from original Gaincard reviews] Input impedance = 22 kohms [47 Labs] or 15-35k variable [Stereophile] Circuit is non-inverting.
***edit added: this references the marketing blurb on 47 lab's site located here:
http://www.sakurasystems.com/products/47amp.html
Note that the wording is not EXACTLY the same, but close.***
Other goodies:
Solid maple faceplate
Solid copper output wires.
Skinned Caps
***edit: Multiple high res pictures were taken of the "clone" and posted here. (showing both interior and exterior of the clone.)***
Please email me if you have any questions, and I will pass them on to the builder of this unit. You should receive a reply within 24 hours.
Product Warranty
New Equipment:
This custom made unit has been tested for about 6 weeks to ensure reliability. It works perfectly. The builder has agreed to warranty it for parts and labour for 30 days commencing date of sale. If you discover a problem with it, I have the option to replace it or refund your money. You are responsible for shipping and insuring the item for repair or refund. If the item is physically damaged, tampered with or by any means abused, you will likely not get a refund. Check out my feedback if you are nervous about bidding.
Shipping
Shipping with insurance will be $15 to most of continental North America.
Some places (like Western Canada) can and may be more expensive. Don't ask me why because i don't have a clue. You probably know why already because you live there.
Combine with other small items I am selling and pay the same shipping price, and just a little bit more for insurance. Local pickup is available for a $3 appointment fee.
Payment Information
Paypal is preferred. Money orders and Cashiers cheques are acceptable. Personal cheques are accepted too. All cheques must clear my bank before i will send out the product. In case of personal cheques from the states, my bank advised me this can take up to 3 weeks!
Thank You for viewing my item. Good Luck, God Bless and Happy Bidding!
Winning bid: US $306.99 (Approximately C $398.26)
Ended: 17-Sep-04 21:56:39 EDT
Start time: 10-Sep-04 21:56:39 EDT
History: 24 bids (US $0.99 starting bid)
General Description
Custom 47 LAB GAINCLONE STEREO AMPLIFIER w/ Power Humpty
You are bidding on a customized home made clone of the world famous 4706 Gaincard from 47 Laboratories amplifier. The model 4706 Gaincard from 47 Laboratories is a 25 wpc stereo amplifier powered by an external power supply. It uses a power op amp IC and a minimum of parts, all connected in such a way as to minimize the length of signal path, particularly the feedback loop.An extremely low parts count and reputably very fine sound, Junji Kimura's Gaincard held the fascination of many at over 3000.00$ US.This unit uses metal film resistors . Here are some features; ******World's smallest number of parts - 7 parts per channel. World's shortest signal pass length - 32 mm ( including the length of parts ) World's shortest NFB loop length - 9 mm ( including the length of the resistor ) World's smallest filter/condenser - 1000µF, Powerful voltage regulation with high capacity transformer. Dual mono construction in a very thick and strong chassis milled from a solid aluminum block.( no RFs here ). The aluminum chassis construction will release vibrations smoothly. The LM3875TF chip and all main parts are new. Gain = 27dB (22x) [Listener] or 30dB (32x) [Stereophile from original Gaincard reviews] Input impedance = 22 kohms [47 Labs] or 15-35k variable [Stereophile] Circuit is non-inverting.
***edit added: this references the marketing blurb on 47 lab's site located here:
http://www.sakurasystems.com/products/47amp.html
Note that the wording is not EXACTLY the same, but close.***
Other goodies:
Solid maple faceplate
Solid copper output wires.
Skinned Caps
***edit: Multiple high res pictures were taken of the "clone" and posted here. (showing both interior and exterior of the clone.)***
Please email me if you have any questions, and I will pass them on to the builder of this unit. You should receive a reply within 24 hours.
Product Warranty
New Equipment:
This custom made unit has been tested for about 6 weeks to ensure reliability. It works perfectly. The builder has agreed to warranty it for parts and labour for 30 days commencing date of sale. If you discover a problem with it, I have the option to replace it or refund your money. You are responsible for shipping and insuring the item for repair or refund. If the item is physically damaged, tampered with or by any means abused, you will likely not get a refund. Check out my feedback if you are nervous about bidding.
Shipping
Shipping with insurance will be $15 to most of continental North America.
Some places (like Western Canada) can and may be more expensive. Don't ask me why because i don't have a clue. You probably know why already because you live there.
Combine with other small items I am selling and pay the same shipping price, and just a little bit more for insurance. Local pickup is available for a $3 appointment fee.
Payment Information
Paypal is preferred. Money orders and Cashiers cheques are acceptable. Personal cheques are accepted too. All cheques must clear my bank before i will send out the product. In case of personal cheques from the states, my bank advised me this can take up to 3 weeks!
Thank You for viewing my item. Good Luck, God Bless and Happy Bidding!
ScottG said:
*Whew* (coming up for breath)... Yeah, I guess that I'm just an idealist!
(something that my signature and avatar should illustrate )Anyway, it's nice to know that even I may be able to find a buyer for one of my own creations. THEN see how guilty I am of over-hype!
BrianGT said:
Enviable humility, Brian!
yup it was a bit "winded". (hopefully others may find it usefull though if deciding to sell their DIY.)
and in truth it wasn't really directed at you Falcott - you just summarized a sentiment that appears to be a bit more than simply a sentiment by others here.
Its also nice that BrianGT responded (graci!). And I can only think that the more boards he sells the better it is for him (regardless of how they are used), and consequently the better it is for DIY'ers here.
and in truth it wasn't really directed at you Falcott - you just summarized a sentiment that appears to be a bit more than simply a sentiment by others here.
Its also nice that BrianGT responded (graci!). And I can only think that the more boards he sells the better it is for him (regardless of how they are used), and consequently the better it is for DIY'ers here.
Hi!
Selling a DIY! whats wrong???? After all you can make another one for yourself.
Just look it this way some one not a DIYer got good stuff and workmanship at fraction of the cost rather than wasting his maney on cheap commercial low end equipment. After thoughts the buyer now has a custom designed equipment.
Not bad not bad at all.
Regards
Rahul
Selling a DIY! whats wrong???? After all you can make another one for yourself.
Just look it this way some one not a DIYer got good stuff and workmanship at fraction of the cost rather than wasting his maney on cheap commercial low end equipment. After thoughts the buyer now has a custom designed equipment.
Not bad not bad at all.
Regards
Rahul
I suppose I am to blame for much if not all of this, although it has been very entertaining, laughable and informative all at once. Karma needed some coin for more projects and i suggested the gainclone as i have seen one previously on ebay sell for somewhere around $350 U.S. and it looked pretty ordinary.
Check it out for yourself although this post didn't sell. He later lowered the reserve and sold it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5700275099
As i was in a hurry, i basically copied and pasted the item description because the guy got a fair buck for it. Had i spent a little more time with it i would have realized there was some plagiarism happening. Karma checked my description out briefly and said that that was pretty much what it was.
My fault for using the Power Humpty term (stupid)
Karma and i were hoping for much less, and then 2 guys started a bidding war. Bonus for us.
Will i sell another gainclone on ebay? Quite possibly.
Using Brian's boards? I bought them. They work great and they are mine!
Will i revise my description? Most definitely.
Any regrets? Mostly no, except my research and preperation efforts.
So if i peeved anyone, I apologize. There was no ill intent or deception.
Sold!
Check it out for yourself although this post didn't sell. He later lowered the reserve and sold it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5700275099
As i was in a hurry, i basically copied and pasted the item description because the guy got a fair buck for it. Had i spent a little more time with it i would have realized there was some plagiarism happening. Karma checked my description out briefly and said that that was pretty much what it was.
My fault for using the Power Humpty term (stupid)
Karma and i were hoping for much less, and then 2 guys started a bidding war. Bonus for us.
Will i sell another gainclone on ebay? Quite possibly.
Using Brian's boards? I bought them. They work great and they are mine!
Will i revise my description? Most definitely.
Any regrets? Mostly no, except my research and preperation efforts.
So if i peeved anyone, I apologize. There was no ill intent or deception.
Sold!
leafster99 said:I suppose I am to blame for much if not all of this, ...
...So if i peeved anyone, I apologize. There was no ill intent or deception.
Sold!
No apology necessary from this corner, leafster! I have to agree that it has been quite entertaining - and somewhat informative at the same time.
Isn't this the same amp at the bottom of this page?: http://www.hilberink.nl/amps/lm3875schema.htm
Now that is a funny read.
Now that is a funny read.
Isn't this the same amp at the bottom of this page?: http://www.hilberink.nl/amps/lm3875schema.htm
Now that is a funny read.
That is funny. Hey Karma. They said your amp looks like spaghetti
MMmmmmmmmmmmm, spaghetti
Now that is a funny read.
That is funny. Hey Karma. They said your amp looks like spaghetti
MMmmmmmmmmmmm, spaghetti
Looks like the guy has an ax to grind..
But I must agree with his concern about the 1000uF supply cap.
I read on the audiocube.com or something that the low capacitance was to limit storage time (sick!) and make the supply more fast (?) more 'directly' connected to the mains, because there was no need to charge the cap, so the mains could directly connect to the amp and more related nonsense.
We all know that the diodes in the rectifier are disconnecting the mains from the supply caps and the amp for probably 60-80% of the time, when the instantaneous mains voltage is below the cap voltage. During that relatively long time, the only source of power for the amp is that puny cap.
That low capacitance will cause a very large supply ripple and if you have a musical peak that will cause 50 and 100Hz (euroland) modulation of the sound big time. And that doesn't sound nice.
So, why are lots of people using 1000uF or even less?
Jan Didden
But I must agree with his concern about the 1000uF supply cap.
I read on the audiocube.com or something that the low capacitance was to limit storage time (sick!) and make the supply more fast (?) more 'directly' connected to the mains, because there was no need to charge the cap, so the mains could directly connect to the amp and more related nonsense.
We all know that the diodes in the rectifier are disconnecting the mains from the supply caps and the amp for probably 60-80% of the time, when the instantaneous mains voltage is below the cap voltage. During that relatively long time, the only source of power for the amp is that puny cap.
That low capacitance will cause a very large supply ripple and if you have a musical peak that will cause 50 and 100Hz (euroland) modulation of the sound big time. And that doesn't sound nice.
So, why are lots of people using 1000uF or even less?
Jan Didden
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