Re: Re: Re: Finally, thanks!
Yup.
Yeah. Srajan said he had a hard time trying to figure out how to get into the Gaincard. I told him I'd send him one of these for Christmas:
I know what you mean. Recently some European magazine did a review of I think the Shigarki DAC which featured some photos of the innards. The construction was consistent with what was seen in the previous photos.
At the time they were being circulated I was told by a third party that I trust that they'd cracked open someone else's Gaincard and that the photos that were going around were representative of what he saw so I've been fairly certain all along that the other photos were the real deal.
No idea. Sorry.
se
ofb said:
Yup.
Yeah. Srajan said he had a hard time trying to figure out how to get into the Gaincard. I told him I'd send him one of these for Christmas:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I know what you mean. Recently some European magazine did a review of I think the Shigarki DAC which featured some photos of the innards. The construction was consistent with what was seen in the previous photos.
At the time they were being circulated I was told by a third party that I trust that they'd cracked open someone else's Gaincard and that the photos that were going around were representative of what he saw so I've been fairly certain all along that the other photos were the real deal.
No idea. Sorry.
se
Re: Re: Re: Re: Finally, thanks!
an english can opener? you philistine. it should be an osaka can opener.
ImageHiFi opened the shigaraki dac.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=61064
hifi.nl did the shigaraki amp
http://www.hifi.nl/recensies.php?id=1966
and early on, KT opened his humpty and said the construction was similar to the 'fake' pics. plus a couple more "friend of" confirmations, as i recall.
... now you've got me wondering what a distinctly japanese can opener would look like anyway.
an english can opener? you philistine. it should be an osaka can opener.
Steve Eddy said:
ImageHiFi opened the shigaraki dac.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=61064
hifi.nl did the shigaraki amp
http://www.hifi.nl/recensies.php?id=1966
and early on, KT opened his humpty and said the construction was similar to the 'fake' pics. plus a couple more "friend of" confirmations, as i recall.
... now you've got me wondering what a distinctly japanese can opener would look like anyway.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Finally, thanks!
Yes, the Humpty circuit board that hold the rectifier diodes looks very similar to the one in the "fake" Gaincard pix and to those boards in the Shigiraki products. It's a brown board with traces that look distictly "hand drawn" and no solder mask. At this point there is no question in my mind that it was a real Gaincard.
I want to know more about those brown resistors that 47Labs seems to use in all of their products. Anyone know anything about them? Perhaps they have some sonic properties that work extremely well with these chip circuits?
Also, what is the board material? Does it add in any way to the sonics? All these questions come up, like why the hand-drawn traces instead of neatly drafted ones? Once a board layout is finalized, it makes no difference in production speed or cost whether the traces are neatly drafted or hand-drawn. So why do they go with the hand-drawn boards?
Also, the boards don't seem to fully be of the drop-in-and-solder type. Rather, some of the pieces have thru-holes on the board, but others are attatched point-to-point style. Again, why? The way they've chosen to do it takes many more man-hours of work than if they'd designed a circuit board that held everything - and Kimura's resume is impressive enough that any thought of amateurishness can be dismissed.
Anyway, interesting questions to think about.
Best,
KT
ofb said:
Yes, the Humpty circuit board that hold the rectifier diodes looks very similar to the one in the "fake" Gaincard pix and to those boards in the Shigiraki products. It's a brown board with traces that look distictly "hand drawn" and no solder mask. At this point there is no question in my mind that it was a real Gaincard.
I want to know more about those brown resistors that 47Labs seems to use in all of their products. Anyone know anything about them? Perhaps they have some sonic properties that work extremely well with these chip circuits?
Also, what is the board material? Does it add in any way to the sonics? All these questions come up, like why the hand-drawn traces instead of neatly drafted ones? Once a board layout is finalized, it makes no difference in production speed or cost whether the traces are neatly drafted or hand-drawn. So why do they go with the hand-drawn boards?
Also, the boards don't seem to fully be of the drop-in-and-solder type. Rather, some of the pieces have thru-holes on the board, but others are attatched point-to-point style. Again, why? The way they've chosen to do it takes many more man-hours of work than if they'd designed a circuit board that held everything - and Kimura's resume is impressive enough that any thought of amateurishness can be dismissed.
Anyway, interesting questions to think about.
Best,
KT
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Finally, thanks!
well, why have shigaraki pottery? why not slip-casting instead? there's a deeply attrative aesthetic to some aspects of the hand made. as a former woodworker, i've got a real affinity for this, though i'll quite agree it's often overblown too.
suggested reading: david pye's 1968 book, The Nature and Art of Workmanship. pye does a fine job of framing questions that usually spin their wheels in philosophical muck.
i've always gotten the feeling that kimura just likes building these things at his bench at home. there's a lot of details that indicate a collection of choices that i usually associate in other trades, although always one-man shops. i expect he found it a refreshing approach after a career in corporate elecronics. what's particularly interesting to me is he forged a path distinct from the usual and long tradition of one-man electronics, though very related to approaches in other 'crafts'. it's a nice mix.
back to audio, i'd be very interested if there's an audible difference in different brands of carbon composite resistors. how varied can something that simple be these days? hopefully someone with years of experience can comment.
board material and sonics: yes. there was a good discussion of this either in the archives here or half-lost in the old ampchipdiy forum now archived only at archive.org. if nobody comes up with a refresher, do some digging.
another thing to wonder KT, is why run four lines from the humpty to the gaincard when it's a single bridge?
consider hand assembly of these little things. the choice can sometimes indicate just being able to get your fingers in there. or in this case, kimura's fingers.
well, why have shigaraki pottery? why not slip-casting instead? there's a deeply attrative aesthetic to some aspects of the hand made. as a former woodworker, i've got a real affinity for this, though i'll quite agree it's often overblown too.
suggested reading: david pye's 1968 book, The Nature and Art of Workmanship. pye does a fine job of framing questions that usually spin their wheels in philosophical muck.
i've always gotten the feeling that kimura just likes building these things at his bench at home. there's a lot of details that indicate a collection of choices that i usually associate in other trades, although always one-man shops. i expect he found it a refreshing approach after a career in corporate elecronics. what's particularly interesting to me is he forged a path distinct from the usual and long tradition of one-man electronics, though very related to approaches in other 'crafts'. it's a nice mix.
back to audio, i'd be very interested if there's an audible difference in different brands of carbon composite resistors. how varied can something that simple be these days? hopefully someone with years of experience can comment.
board material and sonics: yes. there was a good discussion of this either in the archives here or half-lost in the old ampchipdiy forum now archived only at archive.org. if nobody comes up with a refresher, do some digging.
another thing to wonder KT, is why run four lines from the humpty to the gaincard when it's a single bridge?
consider hand assembly of these little things. the choice can sometimes indicate just being able to get your fingers in there. or in this case, kimura's fingers.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Finally, thanks!
The board material looks like XXP phenolic (i.e. paper reinforced phenolic resin) which personally I prefer over the glass expoxy materials.
As for why hand drawn, why not? There's so little there it wouldn't take but a few minutes to do the artwork by hand.
Of course it would take longer still if everything were point wired.
Guess you'd have to ask Kimura to get the real answer.
se
KT said:
The board material looks like XXP phenolic (i.e. paper reinforced phenolic resin) which personally I prefer over the glass expoxy materials.
As for why hand drawn, why not? There's so little there it wouldn't take but a few minutes to do the artwork by hand.
Of course it would take longer still if everything were point wired.
Guess you'd have to ask Kimura to get the real answer.
se
I've made lots of my own circuit boards, using dress makers 'carbon' paper to transfer a design to the copper sheet. Then I go over that with 'Humbrol' model paint, this acts as the etch resist. It's quite surprising how thin and delicate you can get the lines, where there is a need for it, using a 'rigging' brush.
Etch in the normal way and there you are finished, works a treat
Jem
Etch in the normal way and there you are finished, works a treat
Jem
Most designers I know strive to make things look as good as possible. When it comes to Mr. Kamura I have from the first time I saw these real pictures wondered if:
1 He can't do better
2 He really thinks that this is better than a "normal" look
3 He can't afford a pcb consultant
4 He doesn't care (obviously the customers don't)
Which reason is the right one
1 He can't do better
2 He really thinks that this is better than a "normal" look
3 He can't afford a pcb consultant
4 He doesn't care (obviously the customers don't)
Which reason is the right one
Kimura's training and strengths are as an industrial designer, not an EE. So although he had a hand in designing such notable consumer-electronic products as Sony's Profeel line of TVs, he did the enclosure system, not what goes inside. And his temperament and modus operandi feel closer to that of a craftsman than most other industrial designers that I know, even though he is undoubtedly quite capable as an industrial designer.
So although Kimura is undoubtedly familiar with mass-production practices, he has always given me the impression of preferring a direct, hand-on approach - at least for his own work. I think that doing things himself give him much more pleasure than having the same work done professionally, even if the fit and finish would be and look better if someone else did the work.
Also, Kimura has something of a lone-wolf personality that is unusual in Japan, and he is choosy about who he is willing to work with.
BTW, the "Ki" and "Mura" of his name mean "wood" and "village", respectively. Phonetically, however, "ki" is also how "yellow" can be read, and "mura" is one way of reading "purple". So "wood-village" is punned as "yellow-purple", and "yellowpurple" is further punned as "47".
FWIW.
jonathan carr
So although Kimura is undoubtedly familiar with mass-production practices, he has always given me the impression of preferring a direct, hand-on approach - at least for his own work. I think that doing things himself give him much more pleasure than having the same work done professionally, even if the fit and finish would be and look better if someone else did the work.
Also, Kimura has something of a lone-wolf personality that is unusual in Japan, and he is choosy about who he is willing to work with.
BTW, the "Ki" and "Mura" of his name mean "wood" and "village", respectively. Phonetically, however, "ki" is also how "yellow" can be read, and "mura" is one way of reading "purple". So "wood-village" is punned as "yellow-purple", and "yellowpurple" is further punned as "47".
FWIW.
jonathan carr
This stone (Lithops optica rubra) looks very nice today and it has divided itself.jacco vermeulen said:
http://lithops.de/
http://www.mesembs.de/
http://www.mesembs.com/lithops/images/287.jpg
http://www.mesembs.com/lithops/optica.htm
I once managed to get hold of the circuit diagram for the filter used in a Moog synthesisier, I remarked to a friend that the components were el cheapo ones. Yes he said they sound better, he was right too, they did, for I made a posh component filter and the Moog one, in order that we (the person I made the filter for and I) could hear the difference.
And I made both the circuit boards by hand.
Jem
And I made both the circuit boards by hand.
Jem
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