I believe that an interconnect is part of the overall circuit and as such it can vary performance depending on it's composition in much the same way that any other component in the signal chain can, this may or may not have a noticeable effect.
But then I am clearly insane because I often hear a difference between cables of very different design and/or makeup.
But then I am clearly insane because I often hear a difference between cables of very different design and/or makeup.
Hi Pano:
I understand your point and alluded to it above; it is conceivable (barely) that a piece of silver wire contributes so much distortion that it would change the tonal balance of music passed through it, making it sound brighter. However, that again would be easily measurable and would show up in a plot of pink noise spectra. I ask again, has anyone ever done that and shown a difference that could be audible, and which could not be accounted for by differences in resistance, capacitance, and inductance of the 2 wires?
I understand your point and alluded to it above; it is conceivable (barely) that a piece of silver wire contributes so much distortion that it would change the tonal balance of music passed through it, making it sound brighter. However, that again would be easily measurable and would show up in a plot of pink noise spectra. I ask again, has anyone ever done that and shown a difference that could be audible, and which could not be accounted for by differences in resistance, capacitance, and inductance of the 2 wires?
This one slipped out of my whammy once :
Even if it's critical don't worry about it. As long as it fits in the circle of certainty defined by absolute precision it's more than approximately exact.
I was trying to get a telescope to track within one pixel surrounding the star. 3 or so on a 6 mpix frame was the best I could do with my low grade "cheap" mount and the atmosphere churning.
Even if it's critical don't worry about it. As long as it fits in the circle of certainty defined by absolute precision it's more than approximately exact.
I was trying to get a telescope to track within one pixel surrounding the star. 3 or so on a 6 mpix frame was the best I could do with my low grade "cheap" mount and the atmosphere churning.
Last edited:
Hi 7:
I'm not sure who the "spammers" are on a thread called "Funniest snake oil theories", nor am I sure what those two things were supposed to show them. In one case we have a service manual for external FM demodulators, which advises using good quality, short cables so capacitance effects don't cause roll-off of ultrasonic frequencies. In the other some guy rewired his tonearm with silver wire in such a way as to increase capacitance, which caused a "whistling" sound from his CD-4 decoder (also a form of FM demodulator). He also replaced the captive phono leads with RCA jacks, and made some other changes.
Then he added some ordinary RG187 cable between a radio and external FM demodulator -- he didn't say what it replaced. Apparently it worked, as it should have.
So, those things you shared demonstrate that cable length, and cable inductance/capacitance/resistance swamp differences in materials. Was that your point? So who are these lazy "spammers" you are talking about? Did you mean "scammers", like the folks peddling snake-oil cables?
Can't win 'em all,
...Shows how long since I seriously stuck my head under a bonnet, I guess ...
As Pano pointed out, the subjective impression of the sound is everything - and that doesn't accord with what conventional measurements 'tell you' very well at all. For example, the subjective estimation of volume can change quite dramatically as SQ alters - a chap on another forum who 'gets' it, was almost aggressively adamant that the level did change, because the effect was so profoundly strong in his experience. But, I am certain that a meter reading would show nothing different ...
Again, I've never personally used silver wire - the last time I bought 'fancy' stuff was over 25 years ago. But I can appreciate that trying these other things will make a difference, by varying the distortion spectrum - but it's an indirect effect. The silver wire in itself as a metal won't create 'distortion', but somewhere in the mix some type of material interaction is disturbing the electrical behaviours, just enough to have an audible effect.
How can I hear these effects, as also in RFI? By listening to the right musical material, which makes it obvious - harmonics of instruments like cymbals are a giveaway every time. I've mentioned using a CD of Status Quo greatest hits, it's made the job very easy over the years: on a mediocre system you might say, "Cymbals?? What cymbals?!"; on a fairly reasonable one you can pick the hissy white noise happening as a accompaniment to the constantly driving guitars; and then finally on a sorted setup the cymbals fully emerge as real instruments, clearly defined in their own space, with correct metallic sizzle and decay qualities ...
Last edited:
How much distortion do you actually get from a cable? How would you measure it using, presumably, other cables? How much modern technology would simply fail to work if correctly made and installed cables routinely added distortion?Pano said:
I recommend studying sensitivity analysis, then you will be able to estimate the likely effect of a plausibly possible change on system performance. You may find some circuit theory revision will help too.davym said:
Yes, you need to find a site where people don't know any physics.john curl said:
Well, I remember being at a privite demo for a large MBL system, see MBL - Unique High End Audio, and at the back of the MBL101E MK II speakers there are jumpers labeled smooth, normal and fast for the Tweeter part. The designer was present in the room, so I asked what these jumpers do internally. He replied that the normal setting had a short solid copper wire to the tweeter and the fast setting had a short solid silver wire running to the tweeter, nothing else. Can't remember well what the smooth was, maybe stranded copper.
Anyway, when the jumper changed from normal to fast, I remember that the change was clearly audible as labeled, being more fast and detailed.
Hope this helps a bit
Last edited:
Don't we all, after a 10 hour flight back from the Caribbean, my car wouldn't start at the airport parking lot.
It took only half an hour for the road assistence guy to arrive, but he made a mistake during the battery exchange, didn't keep a minimum voltage at the rail.
So now I also have to drop the video game console off at a car shop tomorrow, for resetting of the onboard computer (or whatever).
Electric windows not functioning correctly, car key remote not working, catalytic converter warning light, all four tire pressure sensors/transponders have to be re-identified (wouldn't surprise me one bit if they named it floating IP adresses), etcetera.
(Farmer John would think all it takes is a backup battery on board, or a small socket installed during car manufacture, to plug in a small one during a battery exchange. But hey, one needs hick brains for that ! )
Up till the early '90s, I experimented with all kinds of cables, industrial ones, various home made.
From sticking solid wires in a PVC tube with cork centering plugs, to braiding different materials and shrink sleeving stuff myself.
My favorites are silver-plated copper and teflon sleeved coaxials, from very flexible 1.9mm diameter cable for internal hookup to dual-screen interconnects.
I've noticed sound differences, but those were always linked to measurable flaws, nobility grade of the conducting wires has zero influence, ime.
Last edited:
A short one? Near enough to zero not to matter. My comment was there just as a point. Distortion can change the perceived tonal balance of a device, without much showing up in a frequency response chart.
I've been able to measure that in active devices, seen it measured in passive devices - but short cable runs? No.
Still, it's intriguing that so many people "hear" a brighter sound with silver. It's so wide spread a phenomenon that bears a least a proper look.
Hi !
Difference of sound in wiring is not a "distorsion" question , it is relative to noise of the used material ... I'm HAM too and i've been changing the type of wire used on my transmitting dipoles (40 and 20m band) and noticed a strong, very strong improvement on AF Noise/signal rate ! A 4mm square stranded copper wire makes you hear a very nice and rich audio from your correspondants - even 300Hz /3kHz wide on SSB - and, accordingly, makes your station sound like broadcast quality, almost Hifi-ish !! 73 to others HAMs
Difference of sound in wiring is not a "distorsion" question , it is relative to noise of the used material ... I'm HAM too and i've been changing the type of wire used on my transmitting dipoles (40 and 20m band) and noticed a strong, very strong improvement on AF Noise/signal rate ! A 4mm square stranded copper wire makes you hear a very nice and rich audio from your correspondants - even 300Hz /3kHz wide on SSB - and, accordingly, makes your station sound like broadcast quality, almost Hifi-ish !!
73 to others HAMs
Last edited:
Since no-one who has made that claim (and indeed, it has a long gray beard) has ever produced any evidence of audibility, and generally are hostile to the idea of even the NEED for evidence that the phenomenon exists, then that "proper look" is futile. Might as well start speculating about how the digestive system of the alien abductor works and how that relates to their propensity for anal probing.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.