I am looking to build a pair of Goldwood 1858 woofers into H Frames used in the Martin King two way design. I will actively crossover the units, and am planning on running the woofers with a 200w SS amp, the full range drivers with a low powered tube amp, in the 5-10 watt range. Would this allow me to use higher sensitivity full range drivers? Any suggestions on drivers and box designs? Ideally I would like to keep the driver cost under $50 per side for the full rangers. I hope I am not too confusing. Just kicking Ideas around.
You mean like these?
After you appy OB compensation to the 1858's, their effective SPL is in the 85dB range --yes, you really have to to a treble shelf, not a bass boost. I am running mine off of a Dayton DTA-100, which is ~ 30w/ch@8Ω. I get ~95dB at 2.5m full out. Your 100w/ch should get you ~100dB. The Alpair 7.3's shown are running off of a Topping TP-60 which is about the same power as the Dayton (Same chip?) so I have pretty well balanced amps/speakers. You are going to need significantly more efficient full-rangers if you want to run the Goldwood's flat out.
Bob
After you appy OB compensation to the 1858's, their effective SPL is in the 85dB range --yes, you really have to to a treble shelf, not a bass boost. I am running mine off of a Dayton DTA-100, which is ~ 30w/ch@8Ω. I get ~95dB at 2.5m full out. Your 100w/ch should get you ~100dB. The Alpair 7.3's shown are running off of a Topping TP-60 which is about the same power as the Dayton (Same chip?) so I have pretty well balanced amps/speakers. You are going to need significantly more efficient full-rangers if you want to run the Goldwood's flat out.
Bob
Bob, thats what I was picturing in my head... how do they sound? Have you tried those drivers in open baffle as well?
My amp is 200w per channel... to be honest, i havent decided what to use as a second amp, as I haven't got one yet, so i am flexible. My deal is I'd like to try something like what you have, but the 1858 may ultimately end up mated to Manepan MG1b's.
My amp is 200w per channel... to be honest, i havent decided what to use as a second amp, as I haven't got one yet, so i am flexible. My deal is I'd like to try something like what you have, but the 1858 may ultimately end up mated to Manepan MG1b's.
pardon the further question, which you may have already answered, but exactly which modules and plug-ins would you consider minimum for a simple 2-way such as this example?
They sound nice and full. Good to the mid 20's in-room. Be careful about bottoming them out -- they are NOT HT subs.
I have. I had the A7.3's on smaller than optimal OB's that forced the XO to 350Hz which is really too high for the 1858's. I will not pursue this, though. 1) I don't particularly like the comes from everywhere ambiance that is the main draw for OB's in the first place and 2) the sheer size of a proper OB is not physically doable in my circumstances. And, heretic that I am, I also prefer the sound of a good T-amp to tubes. But I digress....
I also note in your OP that you want to keep costs below $50 a side for the tops. Please make that $100. The difference between say CHR-70's and Alpair 7.3 is more than worth the money.
Bob
I couldn't agree more Bob, but what was interesting over the past weekend's GTG at Dave's was that several folks commented on the "tinny" sound of the A7 vs EL70s, and for that matter the new CSS VRW126/LD25X combo (which weigh in at $370 for a TM set, before XO and enclosures) . The 7s maybe not as full bodied as either of those or the Alpair10s for that matter in the bottom end, but "tinny" is definitely not how I'd describe them (7s).
The amps in question for this system ranged from a 2A3 SE to Rene Jaeger's DHT/MOS and J-Fet hybrids. If he ever offers hand-built or the plans for these, and your wallet permits, take a serious look - just be prepared to budget big time for iron and heatsinking.
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That's what i was thinking Bob, the size and lack of oomph I am missing when I am in panels, and think I may be a cone speaker in a box guy currently, but love open sound. Would you say they fill out nicely? As well, i have eyed some TAmps built and kits online, as well as class d amps, and considered them all, is there one you may suggest in this application? I could see going more expensive on drivers. Under $100 would you say the 7's are best value in this config?
Not sure what you mean, but the H-frames fill out the 30-60Hz octave very nicely in my 15'x25' room. Surprisingly, they don't produce a lot of "slam",but then I probably don't crank it up enough for "slam" and I don't listen to rock anyway.
I really like the Topping TP-60. It doesn't have as much edge as other T-amps I have. Part of the reason is due the the transformer power supply -- two huge toroids -- rather than a SMPS. It is not cheap, though
At the moment, the A7.3's in my little TL's are the sweet spot. I haven't looked at the Fostex FF85WK, which is getting a lot of ink.
Bob
Bob. Sorry i was unclear. I was trying to ask if the full range in a box sounded small or boxy. Which ones in the photo do you run with the h frames? Is there a drawback using the smaller ones?
As well, are you biamping these or running them with a passive crossover? Are the full ranges run with a crossover or full on? Would passive crossovers be expensive and difficult?
The Fostex FF85wk looks nice. Cheap too, but doesn't look to have the high frequency extension of the 7.3, correct?
As well, are you biamping these or running them with a passive crossover? Are the full ranges run with a crossover or full on? Would passive crossovers be expensive and difficult?
The Fostex FF85wk looks nice. Cheap too, but doesn't look to have the high frequency extension of the 7.3, correct?
I think you're familiar enough with the 10.2 and 7.3 to understand when I say that I think the differences in drivers swamp the differences between the enclosures we had to compare them with over the weekend. With at least 20 pairs of various speakers on hand, we just never got around to comparing all the nominally comparable systems. In other words, I'd be inclined to waffle on that.
But put my feet to the fire and I'd say the 10.2 in your MLTL effortlessly delivers more bass extension / weight than you'd think possible from a cone that size - certainly more than Dave's MarKens, but the 7.3 does so many things well above 200 Hz or so, that it's not a hard choice for me to make - season with woofers to taste.
that's still sorta waffle isn't it?
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Why not try a mini line OB with the good Vifa TC9FD-18-08: Vifa TC9FD-18-08 3-1/2" Full Range Paper Cone Woofer 264-1062 . 4 a side, two parallel in two groups connected in series. Worth a try ! 
/Erling
/Erling
Not really. Just stating the obvious. I am a firm believer in in the FAST concept and the smallest treble driver that is reasonable for the application. The A7.3 TL's are in the HT supported by an old Peerless 850146 CSX sub (God I'd like to get my hands of a few more of those!) and until I get something better, I have a pair of FE167E's in BR's over the H-frames.
Bob
"Boxy" is caused by a peaking in the 800Hz range, most commonly due to failure to handle reflections off of the back of the box. In the case of the little TL's, the distance to the back (actually the partition) is too small to cause this problem, and then the back wave has to get through 1" of fiberglass. "Boxy" is simply poor design. If you screw it up bad enough, you can make an OB sound boxy.
The little ones. The floorstanders are the A10.2 MLTL's that I was talking to chrisb about.
They are actively crossed and biamped. I play with the XO point and slope from time to time. At the moment the XO is symmetrical LR4 at 200Hz. The beauty of an active XO, I can change it in two minutes.
Yes. Probably.
As I said, I don't have a pair of FF85WK, so I can't tell you what happens in reality.
Bob
I too am very sold on FAST. Currently listening to FF85wKeN + woofTs (2 x Peerless 830870). Stunning.
A7 scales dynamics better, FF85 reaches higher & the sonic result is very jarring against the visual aspect. These 2 are my goto for mid-tweeters,
dave
The A7.3's. BTW, with a little DSP to cut the edginess, the FE167E sounds better than its replacement FF165WK. The 167 goes way higher.
Bob
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