Yes, we want quality lower bass... not lower quality bass. 
Right, the OnKens would fit in option 1.
There was another enclosure for 8" drivers as well, think it was the Dallas II, which was a back horn design.
I may not have said so specifically, but I can go pretty big on enclosure size... though I'd actually almost prefer something tall if i needed the volume or TL/horn length. Ceilings are at 8 ft, may as well use the space!
Right, the OnKens would fit in option 1.
There was another enclosure for 8" drivers as well, think it was the Dallas II, which was a back horn design.
I may not have said so specifically, but I can go pretty big on enclosure size... though I'd actually almost prefer something tall if i needed the volume or TL/horn length. Ceilings are at 8 ft, may as well use the space!
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One of 3 boxes i recommend for the FE206 (which it was designed for) + Kirishima & Vulcan. The same still applies for compatible amplifiers.
dave
Okay, so if the fe206 won't play nice with my ss receiver, i guess its out then... is it just the Fostex drivers or others like the Alpair line too?
Karlsonator with a 12lta is still on the table, lumped in there in option 1 along with the emken, bib, hammer dynamics.. and anything else I'm forgetting.
The other options are FAST type systems w/ helper woofers.
Karlsonator with a 12lta is still on the table, lumped in there in option 1 along with the emken, bib, hammer dynamics.. and anything else I'm forgetting.
The other options are FAST type systems w/ helper woofers.
Just the FExx6 drivers. FF225wk should play nicely*, as will all the Alpairs.
* if our FF165wk in Victor is any indication, FF225wk should work fine in Vulcan. The bass may need to be trimmed back, and most find the need for a helper tweeter
Opens up whole new worlds.
dave
A proprtly designed ML-TL will be better.
Attached is an ML-TL of unknown provenence and Dr Scott’s BVR.
Note: a more recent 12LTA i treated was at least different in the size of its whizzer from the one i used for the original Em-Ken. I guess it behooves me to check to see if T/S changed too (perhaps meaning some tweaking required).
dave
Attached is an ML-TL of unknown provenence and Dr Scott’s BVR.
Note: a more recent 12LTA i treated was at least different in the size of its whizzer from the one i used for the original Em-Ken. I guess it behooves me to check to see if T/S changed too (perhaps meaning some tweaking required).
dave
Eric, big and well documented. I’ve always liked the aesthetic of the box, but only ever built a cardboard one.
dave
Dave - That cat does seem pretty content with the Metronomes...
I could imagine them being full sounding, but I still have difficulty with guessing how much "punch" they'd have...
Thinking about it last night listing to Treetop Flyer, I may be looking for a sound somewhat more than "live"... I apparently like more low bass than is necessarily true to life. Listening to Stills strum, I want to feel those lower notes while at the same time getting the feeling of space and airiness from the higher twangs and sounds of fingers on the strings. The lower stuff you wouldn't quite hear that way or feel if it was live. Unless you were in the guitar perhaps.
Thanks for posting the Maria Chang/Moose BVR ("Birfurcated Ventilated Response"? - ah i see, "Big Vent Reflex") and the basic ML-TL (not much TL going on there, unless some internal baffling isn't shown?) for the 12lta, those are both additional contenders for option 1. I actually like the size of the BVR, pretty imposing.
More of that sort of thing here:
The Spawn Family of Double Horns
I could imagine them being full sounding, but I still have difficulty with guessing how much "punch" they'd have...
Thinking about it last night listing to Treetop Flyer, I may be looking for a sound somewhat more than "live"... I apparently like more low bass than is necessarily true to life. Listening to Stills strum, I want to feel those lower notes while at the same time getting the feeling of space and airiness from the higher twangs and sounds of fingers on the strings. The lower stuff you wouldn't quite hear that way or feel if it was live. Unless you were in the guitar perhaps.
Thanks for posting the Maria Chang/Moose BVR ("Birfurcated Ventilated Response"? - ah i see, "Big Vent Reflex") and the basic ML-TL (not much TL going on there, unless some internal baffling isn't shown?) for the 12lta, those are both additional contenders for option 1. I actually like the size of the BVR, pretty imposing.
More of that sort of thing here:
The Spawn Family of Double Horns
A lot of people have trouble getting there heads around ML-TLs which on the face of it look like a BR. But as one dimension of the box gets considerably longer than the other 2 the box transitions from BR to a transmission Line. MJK showed this with his ANSYS simulations shown in his original ML-TQWT paper.
There are a lot of speakers out there called reflec that are actually ML-TLs. The designers wondering why they had to change the bass tuning so much from the modeled tuning.
dave
if you want punch - build the Karlson 15 and load with a coax - give it some power - $100 will buy a P-Audio 15CX (regulary $250-ish)with BMD440 compression driver attached - I don't know how good a CX but Les Hudson liked it when he was on a K-kick
K15 with a good speaker will clobber some front loaded horns for punch and bass control. It can do jaw dropping bass transients. (I own Edgarhorn System 100, Peavey FH1 , Klipschorn, custom horn designed by RCA-Fan)
P Audio BM15CXA Co-Ax Speaker
brace K15's back - brace the "wings" with 3/4" wood dowel struts from the front shelf edge to the wings - those are its most flexy points
K15 with a good speaker will clobber some front loaded horns for punch and bass control. It can do jaw dropping bass transients. (I own Edgarhorn System 100, Peavey FH1 , Klipschorn, custom horn designed by RCA-Fan)
P Audio BM15CXA Co-Ax Speaker
brace K15's back - brace the "wings" with 3/4" wood dowel struts from the front shelf edge to the wings - those are its most flexy points
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Modeled a few of these in 3d for fun and to get a sense of what they'd look like in scale. Most are basic mockups only. Can you identify them all?
Only fooled with the single driver ones for now, but will end up probably modeling whatever else sounds good. I can make real models & drawings too if it's a new design or something that doesn't have drawings yet.
If we're not careful, this is what my living room will look like!
Only fooled with the single driver ones for now, but will end up probably modeling whatever else sounds good. I can make real models & drawings too if it's a new design or something that doesn't have drawings yet.
If we're not careful, this is what my living room will look like!
Attachments
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Freddi - You mean to use the Karlson15 as the FAST helper?
I've not heard of the P Audio stuff before, are they any good? Not much in the way of info on it... I'll do more googling later to try and find the t/s specs and a freq. graph.
Not sure I'd need or want the compression driver if I was running something fullrange like the Alpair 10.3, unless it would work well to fill in the top of the highs (if even needed at all on the 10.3... their graph looks like it goes all the way to 20k, holy moly).
Punchy you say? If I do a FAST setup, the woofer needs to be punchy, not too boomy. Apparently somewhat boomy is okay, as the ol' Fishers are ported and thereby at least somewhat boomy themselves. The real boomy stuff would be handled later by a separate large subwoofer, pretty much for HT only (explosions, dinosaurs, earthquakes, etc.). I'm not sure that k-aperture does much in that case for the lows, being omnidirectional anyhow.. though I guess it's part of the ML of the karlsonator anyway.
There's always sealed too I guess. That's what I would have had years ago for the car subwoofers. Just seems like you need a lot of power for punch in that case, the efficiency must be way down.
Dave - I think I see what you mean, but it does scream "bass reflex". I have not read all of Martin's stuff yet, apparently I have more reading to do.. attempting to educate myself somewhat here and make some good decisions.
I've not heard of the P Audio stuff before, are they any good? Not much in the way of info on it... I'll do more googling later to try and find the t/s specs and a freq. graph.
Not sure I'd need or want the compression driver if I was running something fullrange like the Alpair 10.3, unless it would work well to fill in the top of the highs (if even needed at all on the 10.3... their graph looks like it goes all the way to 20k, holy moly).
Punchy you say? If I do a FAST setup, the woofer needs to be punchy, not too boomy. Apparently somewhat boomy is okay, as the ol' Fishers are ported and thereby at least somewhat boomy themselves. The real boomy stuff would be handled later by a separate large subwoofer, pretty much for HT only (explosions, dinosaurs, earthquakes, etc.). I'm not sure that k-aperture does much in that case for the lows, being omnidirectional anyhow.. though I guess it's part of the ML of the karlsonator anyway.
There's always sealed too I guess. That's what I would have had years ago for the car subwoofers. Just seems like you need a lot of power for punch in that case, the efficiency must be way down.
Dave - I think I see what you mean, but it does scream "bass reflex". I have not read all of Martin's stuff yet, apparently I have more reading to do.. attempting to educate myself somewhat here and make some good decisions.
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"Anything else I'm forgetting"...I was suggesting the 12LTA all by itself with the heretofore mentioned mods...The notations by Eminence for the 'Four cubic foot enclosure' was way off the simulations I had done, now with new computers I haven't been able to re-load the SIMS I had before, I'm sure I can find my notes somewhere. My sims had a much bigger enclosure for optimal performance...the dimensional tower drawings on PDF by dave really looks good. The offset (not perfectly centered) driver makes baffle-step sense, going some baby steps forward on this, I'd offset the driver along the horizontal axis as well. At some Forty eight inches high, I'd still try to put it up a little higher...maybe some of those bird feeder cement columns, say eighteen more inches. I would make the front baffle with two one-inch layers, using this thickness to make lovely rounded edges.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Rick........
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