Okay, managed to get the screenshots from the Powerbook...
Some more measurements which I found rather revealing and confirms that what to me sounds nice and linear is in fact pretty linear!!
The filtered FR88EX again:
Great linearity that is achieved with the filter, the only minor detail that confirms what I have been hearing is the little area of lowered output right before 10K. This does cost them a tiny hint of clarity in the high range. As can be seen underneath this explains my final preference for the 89. Maybe I can improve that now with the measurement equipment by choosing slightly different filter values, although I doubt that because when you look at the natural response in the manufacturers published curve this is already present.
Then the filtered FR89EX:
And unfiltered:
Funny to see the filter managed to iron out almost all the little mishaps, even managed to freshen up the high range! And that was audible!! It's pretty revealing also that even though the 88 had the edge in unfiltered state the 89 definitely came out best when filtered. That is also because the 89 can handle a lot more power. The 88 may measure slightly more linear in the whole range up to 8K, but whatever measures not linear on the 89 does sound linear in practise! These have just perfect overall sound balance!!
And another candidate, SPH30X/4 with passive notch filter in a sealed 0.5ltr box:
These I have spent many hours with filtered in the line signal, but since a few friends wanted to use them passive I hacked together a passive notch filter that made them sound much more pleasant. It will never reach the level of linearity of the 88 or 89 though... They do sound rather good, only the resonance at 10K is a little irritating at times... That's the down side of a resonance, just raised output can be filtered, but a resonance even though pulled down to the average level still remains a resonance...
And SPX30TB without any filtering done, also sealed 0.5ltr box:
Very nice little speaker even unfiltered extremely pleasant to listen to, though misses a little high clarity and definitely is a bit heavy in the lower vocal range and midbass and misses bass extension. They might be improved a little from a parallel network of a cap and resistor and another little one... Don't know if I'll ever be bothered...
Somehow the plugin for the cumulative spectral decay isnt working properly, the impulse response is showing excellent behaviour, though in the waterfall it looks rather 'thick'. This must be some kind of bug in Fuzzmeasure, or perhaps some hidden setting that is still wrong...
Some more measurements which I found rather revealing and confirms that what to me sounds nice and linear is in fact pretty linear!!
The filtered FR88EX again:
Great linearity that is achieved with the filter, the only minor detail that confirms what I have been hearing is the little area of lowered output right before 10K. This does cost them a tiny hint of clarity in the high range. As can be seen underneath this explains my final preference for the 89. Maybe I can improve that now with the measurement equipment by choosing slightly different filter values, although I doubt that because when you look at the natural response in the manufacturers published curve this is already present.
Then the filtered FR89EX:
And unfiltered:
Funny to see the filter managed to iron out almost all the little mishaps, even managed to freshen up the high range! And that was audible!! It's pretty revealing also that even though the 88 had the edge in unfiltered state the 89 definitely came out best when filtered. That is also because the 89 can handle a lot more power. The 88 may measure slightly more linear in the whole range up to 8K, but whatever measures not linear on the 89 does sound linear in practise! These have just perfect overall sound balance!!
And another candidate, SPH30X/4 with passive notch filter in a sealed 0.5ltr box:
These I have spent many hours with filtered in the line signal, but since a few friends wanted to use them passive I hacked together a passive notch filter that made them sound much more pleasant. It will never reach the level of linearity of the 88 or 89 though... They do sound rather good, only the resonance at 10K is a little irritating at times... That's the down side of a resonance, just raised output can be filtered, but a resonance even though pulled down to the average level still remains a resonance...
And SPX30TB without any filtering done, also sealed 0.5ltr box:
Very nice little speaker even unfiltered extremely pleasant to listen to, though misses a little high clarity and definitely is a bit heavy in the lower vocal range and midbass and misses bass extension. They might be improved a little from a parallel network of a cap and resistor and another little one... Don't know if I'll ever be bothered...
Somehow the plugin for the cumulative spectral decay isnt working properly, the impulse response is showing excellent behaviour, though in the waterfall it looks rather 'thick'. This must be some kind of bug in Fuzzmeasure, or perhaps some hidden setting that is still wrong...
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Cheers, indeed they do! I just tried to edit my other post with a little more descriptions, but then after pressing the button I got that annoying text saying it's been more than 30 minutes ago since it was posted.
So I decided to delete it and repost it, hence my post came out on top of yours....I like this forum, but sometimes it just sucks badly...
Hello v-bro and others!
Posting here since it' better than starting a new thread.
I am thinking of using a Fountek fullrange, but unsure about which one. I agree the notch filter is important, but I want to implement it digitally. Can you tell me what kind of frequency, attenuation and Q these filters use?
Kind regards,
Raphael
Posting here since it' better than starting a new thread.
I am thinking of using a Fountek fullrange, but unsure about which one. I agree the notch filter is important, but I want to implement it digitally. Can you tell me what kind of frequency, attenuation and Q these filters use?
Kind regards,
Raphael
Ok, got my fr89s and 88s, I will try the the filters out. What cabinet volume are you using? I was planing on trying out 2 boxes (.7 and .4 litres) and using my onkyo hometheaters highpass filter at around 150-180-200 hz and using my mirage subwoofer. Ill put up some pics later of my cabinets, they are sooo cute. Also, have you tried removing the dust cap and using a bullet instead? maybe some improvements can be had , requiring less filtering. I will compare them to the tangband w3 881s MarkMck whisper modified drivers (the best 3 inch divers I haver ever heard - no filtering required) in a 1.7liter cabinet.
I have them in 1.2 liter bassreflex boxes right now, but I am pretty sure they would like a larger enclosure for fullrange use. In your case smaller should suffice since using the subwoofer...
No I haven't cut the dust caps out as the usage of my speakers does not allow for that, they are intended to take along with a TV crew all over the world... I'm not so sure that will improve them that much as it will probably just disperse the high range more, which could cause them to lose their sparkle... which these already are pretty modest in, but I like that, though shouldn't be more than they are now....
Compared to the very aggresive SPH-30X they are smooth as butter, though have better high range extension, so actually fit the true hifi bill much more then the Monacor...
There are ready made cabinets on Ebay for the Fountek drivers which are about 2.5 liters for fullrange use and I believe the K3 is around that as well. The German magazine I have also prescribes two sizes of ported boxes for the 88ex which are larg-ish as well. Think even 3 liters ported would work really well... I have a CNC milling machine at my disposal, so will cut some plywood boxes for them from angled and nicely recessed panels in time... These will be for home theatre use then with the 89ex. Still I can not imagine they will be able to sound any better in the midrange and high range as they do now with the filters, even with a phase plug...
No I haven't cut the dust caps out as the usage of my speakers does not allow for that, they are intended to take along with a TV crew all over the world... I'm not so sure that will improve them that much as it will probably just disperse the high range more, which could cause them to lose their sparkle... which these already are pretty modest in, but I like that, though shouldn't be more than they are now....
Compared to the very aggresive SPH-30X they are smooth as butter, though have better high range extension, so actually fit the true hifi bill much more then the Monacor...
There are ready made cabinets on Ebay for the Fountek drivers which are about 2.5 liters for fullrange use and I believe the K3 is around that as well. The German magazine I have also prescribes two sizes of ported boxes for the 88ex which are larg-ish as well. Think even 3 liters ported would work really well... I have a CNC milling machine at my disposal, so will cut some plywood boxes for them from angled and nicely recessed panels in time... These will be for home theatre use then with the 89ex. Still I can not imagine they will be able to sound any better in the midrange and high range as they do now with the filters, even with a phase plug...
To the followers of this thread, I've built something new and really tiny, with a two incher!
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/233491-monacor-spx-21m.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/233491-monacor-spx-21m.html
hey everyone! i have been reading your discussions closely and ordered a pair of fountek fr 89 exs - they are 28€ at Fountek FR89EX (8Ohm) if anyone should be interested... and now i want to build a pair of desktop speakers for my girlfriend; since your descriptions sound very promising v-bro, i would like to try out the filter you proposed... i thought about using a bigger cabinet however (something like 2.5 l) - then the filters dont fit any more, do they? sorry for maybe asking basic questions, but i am new to diy hifi - thats going to be my first project... and would the fact, that i would be using some sort of wood instead of the metal box change the sound characteristics?
thank you very much for helping and a have a good day!
thank you very much for helping and a have a good day!
I hope I´m not running off topic here, but I´ve been playing around with the FR88EX and the FR88, and whilst I found out the latter to be slightly darker sounding, they both have a really annoying upper midrange resonance, possibly due to cone ringing? Has anybody here experienced this issue? Even with a broad notch and crossed at 750hz, with a 2nd order and padded (it´s a kind of a F.A.S.T. project)!
The upper register of female voices spoils the whole experience at relatively moderate levels... may have to look for something else to work with unfortunately.
The upper register of female voices spoils the whole experience at relatively moderate levels... may have to look for something else to work with unfortunately.
Hi sayrum,
I tried it with a notch filter, (not the same exact values, but close), and thought it ate away too much midband information, whilst keeping this annoying resonance... maybe some day I´ll try to design a notch higher up on the frequency range, but I´m guessing that would muddy up the upper midrange.
The best result I had dealing with the slightly annoying midrange, was with the application of a small value resistor in series, before the crossover. I really liked how it smoothed out the midband coloration (at moderate listening levels).
I tried it with a notch filter, (not the same exact values, but close), and thought it ate away too much midband information, whilst keeping this annoying resonance... maybe some day I´ll try to design a notch higher up on the frequency range, but I´m guessing that would muddy up the upper midrange.
The best result I had dealing with the slightly annoying midrange, was with the application of a small value resistor in series, before the crossover. I really liked how it smoothed out the midband coloration (at moderate listening levels).
Bringing up an old, dead thread but was wondering if you had any suggestions on where to source the parts for the filters? I've had a pair of 89's sitting around for the last few years that I would like to put to good use using your filter. One other question, given the overall desire to have as small as possible enclosure do you have any thoughts on miniaturizing the filters while maintaining audio quality?
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