First off id like to say that ive been floating around these boards for a while, and the information I took from all of the discussions and members was a great help to me while building my first first subwoofer, so thankyou all for that. For the subwoofer I used a TC2+ 12SVC and a 500W bash amp in a 1.2ft^3 enlcosure and I love it.
Now that I know the quality of DIY, im looking into building some loudspeakers to give me much better mid/high range (Right now im running some KLH floor speakers that leave MUCH to be desired). I am looking into building an MTM design using the following drivers.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-308
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=275-075
Using those I wanted to also design my first crossover probably a 12db/oct Linkwitz at around 2000Hz. Another Question that I have is if I should use a Zobel network to help. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as well as any links to free crossover design software.
Thankyou again for all your help in the past.
Now that I know the quality of DIY, im looking into building some loudspeakers to give me much better mid/high range (Right now im running some KLH floor speakers that leave MUCH to be desired). I am looking into building an MTM design using the following drivers.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-308
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=275-075
Using those I wanted to also design my first crossover probably a 12db/oct Linkwitz at around 2000Hz. Another Question that I have is if I should use a Zobel network to help. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as well as any links to free crossover design software.
Thankyou again for all your help in the past.
Have you looked at the projects and kits at PartsExpress? Namely there is the Dayton III - maybe the closest to what you descdribe - but there are others using the same drivers, some using the 5.25" woofer and some using the 8".
Lots of great info to digest there and will probably give you lots of guidance for your crossover design.
Also several Dayton designs at www.speakerbuilder.net
Some of these are the same as the projects at PE.
Lots of great info to digest there and will probably give you lots of guidance for your crossover design.
Also several Dayton designs at www.speakerbuilder.net
Some of these are the same as the projects at PE.
Thanks for the quick response, yes I have seen the speakers on the PE website, and those are along the lines of what im looking to build. I want to design and build it myself just because well....I think it would be more fun and I would learn more.
I guess im wondering what you see as the weaknesses of the two speakers I said I was thinking of using in my first post with a standard 12db/oct linkwitz at about 3khz.
Since this is my first try at loudspeakers I am still learning alot every day (spending some time on speakerbuilder) and I appreciate everyone pushing me in the right direction.
Thankyou
I guess im wondering what you see as the weaknesses of the two speakers I said I was thinking of using in my first post with a standard 12db/oct linkwitz at about 3khz.
Since this is my first try at loudspeakers I am still learning alot every day (spending some time on speakerbuilder) and I appreciate everyone pushing me in the right direction.
Thankyou
Hi,
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker19.html
If you don't understand absolutely everything in this article don't
even think about designing your own crossover, unless you think
fun is being blissfully unaware that you are doing it wrong.
Note in the above the crossover is 2nd order electrical and looks
nothing like standard 2nd order L/R, whilst the acoustic response
includes baffle step compensation, the driver responses, ripples
due to baffle diffraction and is 4th order L/R acoustic.
For your first speaker build you should limit your design activities
to finding a well documented design that suits your budget and
purpose. For example are you going for quantity, high SPL, so
possibly MTM ? or quality, better drivers in a MT ? Are they chosen
specifically to work with a subwoofer or to work on their own ?
Will they be driven with a HT amplifier ? what settings ? Etc...
/sreten.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker19.html
If you don't understand absolutely everything in this article don't
even think about designing your own crossover, unless you think
fun is being blissfully unaware that you are doing it wrong.
Note in the above the crossover is 2nd order electrical and looks
nothing like standard 2nd order L/R, whilst the acoustic response
includes baffle step compensation, the driver responses, ripples
due to baffle diffraction and is 4th order L/R acoustic.
For your first speaker build you should limit your design activities
to finding a well documented design that suits your budget and
purpose. For example are you going for quantity, high SPL, so
possibly MTM ? or quality, better drivers in a MT ? Are they chosen
specifically to work with a subwoofer or to work on their own ?
Will they be driven with a HT amplifier ? what settings ? Etc...
/sreten.Well I dont understand everything in that article yet, but I wouldnt be building anything for at least 4 months so I have plenty of time to get up to speed. I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on the 'Loudspeaker Design cookbook' I hear good things about it but im not sure.
Their use would be mainly musical (right now I have a 2.1 setup) so it does get loud quite a bit, but I would also like decent quality at high volumes which is why I was thinking MTM. As for my reciever I have a 6x110W HT so that later if I did want a HT setup I wouldnt have to buy a different one.
I understand that if I jump into this without knowing exactly what im doing its not going to turn out wel,l which is why im starting to ask questions now and hopefully by the time rolls around when I can build these Ill be prepared.
Their use would be mainly musical (right now I have a 2.1 setup) so it does get loud quite a bit, but I would also like decent quality at high volumes which is why I was thinking MTM. As for my reciever I have a 6x110W HT so that later if I did want a HT setup I wouldnt have to buy a different one.
I understand that if I jump into this without knowing exactly what im doing its not going to turn out wel,l which is why im starting to ask questions now and hopefully by the time rolls around when I can build these Ill be prepared.
I would have to second Sreten's comments above. Since there are so many proven designs out there already using the drivers you've chosen, I don't really see that you have much to gain by starting from scratch. Certainly go MTM or TMM, probably sealed since you're using a sub.
Improving on the performance of what is already out there by trying to tweak crossover design, cabinet tuning, etc. is best left for experts. Of course, to become an expert you have to start somewhere, and I commend you for even considering taking this approach. I'm concerned about you just ending up frustrated and disappointed though - kind of takes the fun out of the whole thing.
I haven't read the "Cookbook" yet, but I see it recommended more often than any other. I believe it discusses crossover design in depth, and remember there is plenty of software available too. But you'll still want to measure your results though if you really want to get things right, and that of course takes more hard- and software.
Improving on the performance of what is already out there by trying to tweak crossover design, cabinet tuning, etc. is best left for experts. Of course, to become an expert you have to start somewhere, and I commend you for even considering taking this approach. I'm concerned about you just ending up frustrated and disappointed though - kind of takes the fun out of the whole thing.
I haven't read the "Cookbook" yet, but I see it recommended more often than any other. I believe it discusses crossover design in depth, and remember there is plenty of software available too. But you'll still want to measure your results though if you really want to get things right, and that of course takes more hard- and software.
Your probably right sdc, a tried design would remove alot of headaches down the line, and since this will be my first total construction it will present its share of challenges. One problem though, all of the MTM designs ive seen use 8ohm dayton classic woofer in parallel and some 4 ohm tweeter. My reciever doesnt really like impedances below 8, 6 at the lowest. so I wanted to use two 4 ohm dayton woofers with the 8 ohm silk dome to give me the 8 ohm load that I want.
I dont know how easy it would be to change one of those designs to fit my needs, and if anyone can point one out I would appreciate it.
Thankyou for all your help
I dont know how easy it would be to change one of those designs to fit my needs, and if anyone can point one out I would appreciate it.
Thankyou for all your help
Did I read that you like to play loud
I dont know why I like them, as I have never heard any of them
But StudioSeries is damm cheap - could be a good start
http://pispeakers.com/Prices.htm
I dont know why I like them, as I have never heard any of them
But StudioSeries is damm cheap - could be a good start
http://pispeakers.com/Prices.htm
I agree with the last post. As a beginner, use a proven concept and realize it represents what the designer wished for. That doesn't mean it will necessarily suit your tastes. After you've listened to the system to assess its values, both good and bad, try tweaking the curcuit to suit your taste. I think you'll learn more by working with a good base line product and hearing what changes occur when you make alterations. And, you will always have the original design to fall back on and compare to as you learn.
Jiggity said:
TA DAA!! http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-308
Just wire in series.
I have to say that if it were that simple, everybody could make good speakers - from time to time I cant help thinking that there often is a pronounced lack of respect when people think its that easy
I have nothing against your urge to design your own, and theres enough people advising against it
Funny how in amp building its the other way round, where a true DIYer is expected to have burned fingers regularly, and kit building is not considered as true DIY - well enough said
The woofers you have chosen are I think not so good with its dips and peaks - allthough it being a papercone I reckon its related to its deep and flat conical cone shape
If you really must do your own, you have to choose a driver that has a smooth frequency that allows fore a simple and high crossover point
And please dont use some standard crossover
I have nothing against your urge to design your own, and theres enough people advising against it
Funny how in amp building its the other way round, where a true DIYer is expected to have burned fingers regularly, and kit building is not considered as true DIY - well enough said
The woofers you have chosen are I think not so good with its dips and peaks - allthough it being a papercone I reckon its related to its deep and flat conical cone shape
If you really must do your own, you have to choose a driver that has a smooth frequency that allows fore a simple and high crossover point
And please dont use some standard crossover
I think theese look interesting
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w6-658a.htm
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/28-1177s.htm
Or you can make theese for about 100USD a pair
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker13.html
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/w6-658a.htm
http://www.tb-speaker.com/detail/1208_03/28-1177s.htm
Or you can make theese for about 100USD a pair
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker13.html
Hi,
Unusual a HT reciever doesn't like anything less than 8 ohm loads.
If a subwoofer is always going to be involved then sealed box
loading is the way to go, the boxes will be ~ 1/2 the size of
the equivalent reflex, and this in the end = better quality.
Personally I prefer MTs over MTMs, especially for music, though
for bombastic (as opposed to subtle) HT MTMs can be somewhat
more immediate (if less accurate).
Note that with most designs once the tweeter is level matched
via a series (and possibly parallel) resistor the impedance in the
treble should not be low, you should only have to worry about
the impedance in the bass area of the speaker.
Loud volumes are a function of the size of your room, amplifier
power and speaker sensitivity. Sensitivity is related to the amount
of bass extension for the box size. If a sub is always involved
then you can swap sensitivity for bass extension.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker19.html
Is a very good 8 ohm speaker for use with a subwoofer, and
also a very good first project. If they end up not being loud
enough you can use them as rears. There is also enough info
in the article to be able to build and compare 3dB BSC and
full BSC (with 3dB IMO you would need near wall mounting).
/sreten.
Unusual a HT reciever doesn't like anything less than 8 ohm loads.
If a subwoofer is always going to be involved then sealed box
loading is the way to go, the boxes will be ~ 1/2 the size of
the equivalent reflex, and this in the end = better quality.
Personally I prefer MTs over MTMs, especially for music, though
for bombastic (as opposed to subtle) HT MTMs can be somewhat
more immediate (if less accurate).
Note that with most designs once the tweeter is level matched
via a series (and possibly parallel) resistor the impedance in the
treble should not be low, you should only have to worry about
the impedance in the bass area of the speaker.
Loud volumes are a function of the size of your room, amplifier
power and speaker sensitivity. Sensitivity is related to the amount
of bass extension for the box size. If a sub is always involved
then you can swap sensitivity for bass extension.
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker19.html
Is a very good 8 ohm speaker for use with a subwoofer, and
also a very good first project. If they end up not being loud
enough you can use them as rears. There is also enough info
in the article to be able to build and compare 3dB BSC and
full BSC (with 3dB IMO you would need near wall mounting).
/sreten.Thankyou for all of your input, I will take your advice and build a basic 2-way woofer/tweeter (not MTM). It might not be that exact one but I will base it off a proven design, and if I like them enough Ill just make 4 of them for the surround sound, take my old ones and use them to tinker with to perhaps learn some more.
Thanks again for all of your input, it might be a while before I actually build these, I have to go back to school, but when I do ill let you know how they turned out.
Thanks again for all of your input, it might be a while before I actually build these, I have to go back to school, but when I do ill let you know how they turned out.
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