Thx for the advice 
I got a godo idea now. I was already looking at speakers with a high efficiency. I was targetting speakers with an efficiency of ca 95dB. Seems like Eminence fits that bill, AND keeps cost to acceptable levels. I was thinking of cloning the Amati (heheh, yes, I read up on some of those). I looked at the approximate size of the chambers for the drivers and it seems that the bass units have ca 33ltr each, vented, but the chambers are open to each other. So basically, 2 bass units share about 66 ltr volume and 2 vent ports. The Eminence Alpha 10A's are affordable (read cheap), and are usable in that space. The DeltaLites are preferable as the recommended enclosure is closer to the 33 ltr, whereas the Alpha 10A's go way up to 54 ltr (from 28 ltr, making the fit quite marginal). The good thing is that I could first fit the Alpha 10's and later upgrade to Deltalite's, as the latter has a marginally wider baffle hole diameter.
The mid driver seems to have about 22ltr volume available, also vented. This doesn't fit the Eminence Alpha 6A, which I was targeting for that chamber. The good thing though, is that I can make the chamber smaller. I calculated with some easy mods to have about 16ltr, which fits the Alpha 6 nicely.
I am struggling with the tweeter though. I was thinking of monacor DT series, maybe the 104, or possibly the 101SK, the 105 or 280, all of which are sensitive enough. The latter 3 have my preference due to a higher frequency range, but haven't been able to find them in the UK online yet. Also, I cannot find recommended enclosure space for the monacors, any ideas? Does it matter at all? I considered the Beyma T2030, but the power is not enough (15W rms). I also like the CP22, but that one is a bit too pricey for this version (though if I ever up the drivers, it could be a very good contender!). I would use EMinence crossovers.
Now some other thoughts, I saw on this link (sonus faber amati fabrikage-nl) a wonderful and informative tour of how the sonusses are made. Truly pieces of art. However, i do have some questions on how they go about some things. For example, they drown the crossovers in resin. Although that protects them very well, it also means its impossible to replace components if the crossover breaks. Sure they pass the pre-resin production testing, but it could always break. Seems like it will be expensive if sonus has to replace the whole crossover instead of 1 component.
Also, do they glue the baffle to the main frame once the crossovers are installed etc? Does that mean there is no way of accessing the crossovers? (they seem too big to fit through the bass driver hole). Personally I'd like to keep my crossover accessible in case of repairs...
Furthermore, the driver cables seem loose. Are they really loose in the cabin, or are they fixated somehow? How do you guys fix the driver cables to prevent them from rattling?
Finally, finishing. What kind of wood colouring do they use? Is that a wood stain? or a wood dye? (they are quite different actually). How do they finish the gloss? Is that a lacquer or do they (french) polish it? Or is there another technique?
I got a godo idea now. I was already looking at speakers with a high efficiency. I was targetting speakers with an efficiency of ca 95dB. Seems like Eminence fits that bill, AND keeps cost to acceptable levels. I was thinking of cloning the Amati (heheh, yes, I read up on some of those). I looked at the approximate size of the chambers for the drivers and it seems that the bass units have ca 33ltr each, vented, but the chambers are open to each other. So basically, 2 bass units share about 66 ltr volume and 2 vent ports. The Eminence Alpha 10A's are affordable (read cheap), and are usable in that space. The DeltaLites are preferable as the recommended enclosure is closer to the 33 ltr, whereas the Alpha 10A's go way up to 54 ltr (from 28 ltr, making the fit quite marginal). The good thing is that I could first fit the Alpha 10's and later upgrade to Deltalite's, as the latter has a marginally wider baffle hole diameter.
The mid driver seems to have about 22ltr volume available, also vented. This doesn't fit the Eminence Alpha 6A, which I was targeting for that chamber. The good thing though, is that I can make the chamber smaller. I calculated with some easy mods to have about 16ltr, which fits the Alpha 6 nicely.
I am struggling with the tweeter though. I was thinking of monacor DT series, maybe the 104, or possibly the 101SK, the 105 or 280, all of which are sensitive enough. The latter 3 have my preference due to a higher frequency range, but haven't been able to find them in the UK online yet. Also, I cannot find recommended enclosure space for the monacors, any ideas? Does it matter at all? I considered the Beyma T2030, but the power is not enough (15W rms). I also like the CP22, but that one is a bit too pricey for this version (though if I ever up the drivers, it could be a very good contender!). I would use EMinence crossovers.
Now some other thoughts, I saw on this link (sonus faber amati fabrikage-nl) a wonderful and informative tour of how the sonusses are made. Truly pieces of art. However, i do have some questions on how they go about some things. For example, they drown the crossovers in resin. Although that protects them very well, it also means its impossible to replace components if the crossover breaks. Sure they pass the pre-resin production testing, but it could always break. Seems like it will be expensive if sonus has to replace the whole crossover instead of 1 component.
Also, do they glue the baffle to the main frame once the crossovers are installed etc? Does that mean there is no way of accessing the crossovers? (they seem too big to fit through the bass driver hole). Personally I'd like to keep my crossover accessible in case of repairs...
Furthermore, the driver cables seem loose. Are they really loose in the cabin, or are they fixated somehow? How do you guys fix the driver cables to prevent them from rattling?
Finally, finishing. What kind of wood colouring do they use? Is that a wood stain? or a wood dye? (they are quite different actually). How do they finish the gloss? Is that a lacquer or do they (french) polish it? Or is there another technique?
I'll b starting to draw out the cabinet on wood.
As a note, I found that 6, MDF or ply, is really tough to bend! I may be going for 3,5mm ply instead.
I have heard of some people using hard board. How does that perform sonically, compared to MDF or plywood? And how about long term quality? I would have guessed that hardboard is undesirable due to it being quite inferiour quality wise (a drop of water dissolves it, bump into it and you have a huge hole, etc etc...)
As a note, I found that 6, MDF or ply, is really tough to bend! I may be going for 3,5mm ply instead.
I have heard of some people using hard board. How does that perform sonically, compared to MDF or plywood? And how about long term quality? I would have guessed that hardboard is undesirable due to it being quite inferiour quality wise (a drop of water dissolves it, bump into it and you have a huge hole, etc etc...)
You mention the alpha 10a for bass?
I've been there for my first project (ever). It didn't do well. Those recommended sizes may as well be made up. You can get 30Hz from the Alpha 10A, but this requires a box of over 10 cubic feet. The cone excursion while doing so is also a little excessive, so your power handling would be X-max limited to... less than 10W (that's excursion above port tuning). I got one of those pre-made car "sub" boxes, took the back off and used it as a guitar speaker, which it does reasonably well.
Call me old fashioned, but I'll go and point at the iron law: small size, deep bass, efficiency - pick TWO. You've picked deep bass and small size. This is going to be big. I'd advise messing around with a pair of Alpha 15As on open baffles - they are cheap, and go pretty low, even on an open speaker.
Using a Delta 12LF, you can use a 4cu.ft box, and get to 37Hz. Look for something more like this. After all - if you find a design you like, you can multiply up the dimensions until you have the right volume.
I've been there for my first project (ever). It didn't do well. Those recommended sizes may as well be made up. You can get 30Hz from the Alpha 10A, but this requires a box of over 10 cubic feet. The cone excursion while doing so is also a little excessive, so your power handling would be X-max limited to... less than 10W (that's excursion above port tuning). I got one of those pre-made car "sub" boxes, took the back off and used it as a guitar speaker, which it does reasonably well.
Call me old fashioned, but I'll go and point at the iron law: small size, deep bass, efficiency - pick TWO. You've picked deep bass and small size. This is going to be big. I'd advise messing around with a pair of Alpha 15As on open baffles - they are cheap, and go pretty low, even on an open speaker.
Using a Delta 12LF, you can use a 4cu.ft box, and get to 37Hz. Look for something more like this. After all - if you find a design you like, you can multiply up the dimensions until you have the right volume.
Hi Chris661,
How did you get to 10 cu.ft. for a single Alpha 10A to get to 30Hz? You got some kind of calculator or have you actually measured this on one of your own projects? What frequency did you get down to on the 10A, with what volume?
I kinda set my mind on an Amati clone, which means the sizes of the cabinet are restricted (and are reasonably big anyway). I have a total of 66 ltr space for the bass. The original uses 22cm scanspeak drivers for bass, and that design is pretty well received. (Ok, I know Alpha 10A's are not scanspeaks... but still...)
The 15's are out of the question as they won't fit the enclosure width, same for the delta 12's. I could go for a single deltalite 2510 though, which would fit the enclosure, but they quote 17-39ltr, so that means using 2 again, unless you have measured/calculated those to be wrong as well.
If this is all based on hearing perception then this is highly subjective (some people will agree, some people will disagree), and I rather go on facts, as I will never be able to hear my own speakers until I have build them.
If it is based on compliance volumen (Vas), then yes,you are probably right, and tehAlpha's would need more space. In this case teh Delta 10A's seem to be adequate as they quote Vas= 30ltr, and vented enclosure recommendation between 13 and 38 ltr, which means Vas and recommended enclosure are close to each other, and as it happens, that would fit the space available in my units (ca 33ltr)
I could choose to mount the baffle using screws, so that when I try them, I can still change drivers easily before I permanently fix the baffle to the enclosure.
How did you get to 10 cu.ft. for a single Alpha 10A to get to 30Hz? You got some kind of calculator or have you actually measured this on one of your own projects? What frequency did you get down to on the 10A, with what volume?
I kinda set my mind on an Amati clone, which means the sizes of the cabinet are restricted (and are reasonably big anyway). I have a total of 66 ltr space for the bass. The original uses 22cm scanspeak drivers for bass, and that design is pretty well received. (Ok, I know Alpha 10A's are not scanspeaks... but still...)
The 15's are out of the question as they won't fit the enclosure width, same for the delta 12's. I could go for a single deltalite 2510 though, which would fit the enclosure, but they quote 17-39ltr, so that means using 2 again, unless you have measured/calculated those to be wrong as well.
If this is all based on hearing perception then this is highly subjective (some people will agree, some people will disagree), and I rather go on facts, as I will never be able to hear my own speakers until I have build them.
If it is based on compliance volumen (Vas), then yes,you are probably right, and tehAlpha's would need more space. In this case teh Delta 10A's seem to be adequate as they quote Vas= 30ltr, and vented enclosure recommendation between 13 and 38 ltr, which means Vas and recommended enclosure are close to each other, and as it happens, that would fit the space available in my units (ca 33ltr)
I could choose to mount the baffle using screws, so that when I try them, I can still change drivers easily before I permanently fix the baffle to the enclosure.
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I have a good solid state system already. The tube is to do something different, and anyway, with some very minor mods, the chinese amp can still sing, as others have proven on this forum. Cheap does not have to be bad. The design of the amp is proven time and again. Sure I'd have to check teh chinese build quality, but as I said, a couple of minor mods and you have a good amp, simpel as that.
Of course I take your opinion and advice into consideration, but don't forget I am asking advice to build speakers that work on the system I plan to use them on.
If someone is shopping for a decent commuter car, don't try to sell them an Aston Martin DB9...
Of course I take your opinion and advice into consideration, but don't forget I am asking advice to build speakers that work on the system I plan to use them on.
If someone is shopping for a decent commuter car, don't try to sell them an Aston Martin DB9...
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