ok, so this is a rant of sorts about how wonderful these things are. I finished the cabinets on thursday. the glue is drying it seems by the day. the bass gets more poweful.
the drivers are pretty well broken in. I have played with them in sealed cabinets for several months.
I cut and assembled the cabinets at cain and cain, as my kitchen woodshop is a little small and undertooled for the task. being by far the largest project i have embarked upon to date, I was scared that I would screw up and waste a bunch of wood.
ended up working out well though. square was near perfect for the interior. exterior I have a little double thick ply sanding to do...
anyways, these things leave little to be desired. I am using no damping and do not see the need for any as of yet. I have heard a slight and occational 150hz or so resonance - it was most prominent when I first fired them up. now it is hard to detect. there could perhaps be a slight 500hz hole as predicted, however, it does not detract from the enjoyability of the driver. the upper frequencies being so present, they are ultra detailed. rather they fill a room with detail rather than just shooting it to the listening position. everywhere seems to be the sweetspot, and I have a really hard room to please. basswise, the horn action is really trippy to get involved in. there is nothing like good single driver horn bass. - rather it is similar to really good headphone bass. mega fun. it is very hard to acheive through designs, modeling, or implimentation, but utterly addictive once attained. the bass is surprisingly flat through these horns. very strong at all frequencies until the seemingly sharp acoustic crossover point. very low in my room. every bit as low as the 166es-r BIB, which go supa wooha.
I consider these horns to be one of the holy grails of large horn designs. there is alot of epitomes acting here. the d-58, the radial cone, the lanthanum cobalt, zinc frame, the brass rings, the t90aex (a wonderful supertweeter). everything is very very clean. lowther clean. better than lowther clean.... eh I have not heard too many well implimented lowther designs so I should not talk. but still. it verges on being too detailed. rare for fostex, honestly.
of course, these things are expensive, big, and very demanding of an amplifier. meaning tone....
the small drivers need honest, clean power, the big drivers need that tube magic in spades. I am wanting to build 45 amps for these things.... these hyper efficient drivers allow us to see into our amplifier;s soul.... if it is tarnished then we are no good.
I could spend days discussing the various merits of big/small drivers, I will save it for another day.
big drivers are really nice in the end. i have been skeptical for a long time. the large double horns from cain and cain kick *** though and I wanted to try my hand at the paridigm. all I can say is wow. love. it is funny how we have to use so much material to create nothing (meaning barrier between music and us). it is a test of builder's ego
these high class horn drivers from fostex are just a hoot to play with. the 166es-r, the 108esII, this one. they are all in a league of their own. all surprisingly balanced in their own right. this makes me want to track down a pair of 208ss, 208es, 168es, 168ss, 103memorial, 108es (to see what the effect of hp is), etc. as well as another pair of fe103A....
I gave mine away as a trade for some pottery and am kicking myself since.
eh... pipe dreams...
well, tomorrow I embark on the 127e double bass reflex. see what that is like.
frow walla walla,
Clark
the drivers are pretty well broken in. I have played with them in sealed cabinets for several months.
I cut and assembled the cabinets at cain and cain, as my kitchen woodshop is a little small and undertooled for the task. being by far the largest project i have embarked upon to date, I was scared that I would screw up and waste a bunch of wood.
ended up working out well though. square was near perfect for the interior. exterior I have a little double thick ply sanding to do...
anyways, these things leave little to be desired. I am using no damping and do not see the need for any as of yet. I have heard a slight and occational 150hz or so resonance - it was most prominent when I first fired them up. now it is hard to detect. there could perhaps be a slight 500hz hole as predicted, however, it does not detract from the enjoyability of the driver. the upper frequencies being so present, they are ultra detailed. rather they fill a room with detail rather than just shooting it to the listening position. everywhere seems to be the sweetspot, and I have a really hard room to please. basswise, the horn action is really trippy to get involved in. there is nothing like good single driver horn bass. - rather it is similar to really good headphone bass. mega fun. it is very hard to acheive through designs, modeling, or implimentation, but utterly addictive once attained. the bass is surprisingly flat through these horns. very strong at all frequencies until the seemingly sharp acoustic crossover point. very low in my room. every bit as low as the 166es-r BIB, which go supa wooha.
I consider these horns to be one of the holy grails of large horn designs. there is alot of epitomes acting here. the d-58, the radial cone, the lanthanum cobalt, zinc frame, the brass rings, the t90aex (a wonderful supertweeter). everything is very very clean. lowther clean. better than lowther clean.... eh I have not heard too many well implimented lowther designs so I should not talk. but still. it verges on being too detailed. rare for fostex, honestly.
of course, these things are expensive, big, and very demanding of an amplifier. meaning tone....
the small drivers need honest, clean power, the big drivers need that tube magic in spades. I am wanting to build 45 amps for these things.... these hyper efficient drivers allow us to see into our amplifier;s soul.... if it is tarnished then we are no good.
I could spend days discussing the various merits of big/small drivers, I will save it for another day.
big drivers are really nice in the end. i have been skeptical for a long time. the large double horns from cain and cain kick *** though and I wanted to try my hand at the paridigm. all I can say is wow. love. it is funny how we have to use so much material to create nothing (meaning barrier between music and us). it is a test of builder's ego
these high class horn drivers from fostex are just a hoot to play with. the 166es-r, the 108esII, this one. they are all in a league of their own. all surprisingly balanced in their own right. this makes me want to track down a pair of 208ss, 208es, 168es, 168ss, 103memorial, 108es (to see what the effect of hp is), etc. as well as another pair of fe103A....
I gave mine away as a trade for some pottery and am kicking myself since.
eh... pipe dreams...
well, tomorrow I embark on the 127e double bass reflex. see what that is like.
frow walla walla,
Clark
Either one of you using the T90AEX? If so what did you use for cap and attenuator(if you used an attenuator at all) I changed the caps on mine from .47mfd to .33mfd, no atenuator and this seems to blend well. Always interested in hearing from you guys with more knowledge and expirience. The more I listen to these the more I like `em......
NOXO, I dont know about the knowledge and all that but I do know what I like. I have not found any reason to use a tweeter (yet) or a sub either. I'm quite happy running them "strait up"
PLANET10, Yes, I'm still using the too short plugs right now just to keep the dust out plus it is an improvment. (Also, I'm not sure how to get the shorties back out again, not much there to get hold of!)
PLANET10, Yes, I'm still using the too short plugs right now just to keep the dust out plus it is an improvment. (Also, I'm not sure how to get the shorties back out again, not much there to get hold of!)
super tsuita
so I am using a .47 with the 9 dollar fostex knockoff attenuator from madisound. I have it set just below 12:00 and that works well for me. I am using the t90aex.
I consider super tweeters to be very important with these full rangers. more than frequency response, it adds speed up top to the mix. things separate out alot easier, especially vocals are more intelligible. also, there is the factor of dispersion. anywhere in the room seems to become alot more like the sweet spot.
to make it clear, I found a super tweeter to be needed more on the 166es-r. also, at .47 mfd.
also, I like to run the tweeters so that it is barely audible. such that it does not detract from the imaging, or anything else for that matter.
I consider it to be like salt. it is a flavour enhancer, but not a flavour in and of itself. the salt should not be tasted. it might seem ridiculous to buy something so expensive that adds so little to the mix. most people will not find super tweeters to be a necesity with these drivers, as they have a very strong, natural and high speed high frequency response, especially for a large full range.
however, I like the effect of the t90aex. it is a really nice super tweeter.
the nicest one i can compare it to from experience is the t900a. I think this beats it.
really this horn could be built with just the drivers and just the horns. i have tried it without all my tricked out add on parts and I find it to be very very enjoyable. it is ultra musical. the add ons just make things that last 5 per cent better for me at least.
I really think that this speaker will withstand the test of time. it is very special.
well,
see yas.
Clark
so I am using a .47 with the 9 dollar fostex knockoff attenuator from madisound. I have it set just below 12:00 and that works well for me. I am using the t90aex.
I consider super tweeters to be very important with these full rangers. more than frequency response, it adds speed up top to the mix. things separate out alot easier, especially vocals are more intelligible. also, there is the factor of dispersion. anywhere in the room seems to become alot more like the sweet spot.
to make it clear, I found a super tweeter to be needed more on the 166es-r. also, at .47 mfd.
also, I like to run the tweeters so that it is barely audible. such that it does not detract from the imaging, or anything else for that matter.
I consider it to be like salt. it is a flavour enhancer, but not a flavour in and of itself. the salt should not be tasted. it might seem ridiculous to buy something so expensive that adds so little to the mix. most people will not find super tweeters to be a necesity with these drivers, as they have a very strong, natural and high speed high frequency response, especially for a large full range.
however, I like the effect of the t90aex. it is a really nice super tweeter.
the nicest one i can compare it to from experience is the t900a. I think this beats it.
really this horn could be built with just the drivers and just the horns. i have tried it without all my tricked out add on parts and I find it to be very very enjoyable. it is ultra musical. the add ons just make things that last 5 per cent better for me at least.
I really think that this speaker will withstand the test of time. it is very special.
well,
see yas.
Clark
renfrow said:
bassrogue said:RENFROW, Thanks for the tip. I may have to do just that and then fill the hole again, I still have the 206E's and the plugs will go back in them. I would'nt use these drivers without the phase plugs, they make that much difference (to my ears)
You could also try with double sided adhesive tape... it can resist quite a lot of traction, and it remains are easier to get off than a hole
Gastón
A few sips of courage helped too.
I had to laugh when I saw the picture of the tools that Dave had laid out for surgery. In particular his glasses have been removed.
I have a lamp with a magnifing lens built in, had it for maybe 15 years but never used the lens until about 2 or so years ago.
I put together a 41HZ amp 5 kit and would have been unable to do it without the lens, and it is a "through hole" kit and not smt!
Does this mean I am "getting on" in age?
Sometimes (paticularly when speaking to me 21 year old son) I sound like my dad used to
Hopefully I am gaining some wisdom with the loss of vision
I have a lamp with a magnifing lens built in, had it for maybe 15 years but never used the lens until about 2 or so years ago.
I put together a 41HZ amp 5 kit and would have been unable to do it without the lens, and it is a "through hole" kit and not smt!
Does this mean I am "getting on" in age?
Sometimes (paticularly when speaking to me 21 year old son) I sound like my dad used to
Hopefully I am gaining some wisdom with the loss of vision
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