Time for me to chime in
I'm almost sure its your amp, cables or pre. I have those Dirvers in the Fostex design cabinet and I have great real bass...I have two amps. Dynaco ST70 and my Fi 2a3 SET driven by a foremplay pre and Thorens TT......These speakers produce better and lower bass than my Lascalla's.
I have no need for a sub or tweeter. I did install a phase plug.
If it not the amp something is out of spec on the cabinet.
I'm almost sure its your amp, cables or pre. I have those Dirvers in the Fostex design cabinet and I have great real bass...I have two amps. Dynaco ST70 and my Fi 2a3 SET driven by a foremplay pre and Thorens TT......These speakers produce better and lower bass than my Lascalla's.
I have no need for a sub or tweeter. I did install a phase plug.
If it not the amp something is out of spec on the cabinet.
The only thing in the cabinet I have been wondering about is, I have some acoustic foam (10mm) on 2mm bitsumin (!) directly behind the driver. The cabinet internal dimensions are exact to the Fostex design, I've beefed up the sides, main baffle and rear using 22mm MDF instead of 15mm, this has a further lamination of 4mm maple faced ply (easiest way I could figure of veneering it).
The problem is the amp, I have already added a 2R2 in series with the drivers, and after reflecting on Scottmoose's recomendation of 4-5R, I added another 2R2, giving me 4R4 a side.
The difference was amazing, even though I'd reduced the overall sensitivity it sounded louder for the same amp setting. There was a lot more bass, and a much fuller (and balanced) sound. For most music I could get away without a sub-woofer, I like quite a lot of Dance music with low synthesised bass, I could hear hints of the realy low notes but not feal them.
The sound is now much less harsh than a week ago.
I agree with Scottmoose's evaluation of the FE166's sound, there is a lot of detail and texture to notes I havn't heard before, and it is fast. The best recomendation I can give is that since I installed the speakers in the box a week ago, we have played music everynight (and daytime if not at work), the TV hasn't been on,
and music now has a magic again. And I'm looking forward to a weekend playing with 2 EL34 class A 4W monoblocks.
Must admit Its like being a kid again with a BIG new toy.
The problem is the amp, I have already added a 2R2 in series with the drivers, and after reflecting on Scottmoose's recomendation of 4-5R, I added another 2R2, giving me 4R4 a side.
The difference was amazing, even though I'd reduced the overall sensitivity it sounded louder for the same amp setting. There was a lot more bass, and a much fuller (and balanced) sound. For most music I could get away without a sub-woofer, I like quite a lot of Dance music with low synthesised bass, I could hear hints of the realy low notes but not feal them.
The sound is now much less harsh than a week ago.
I agree with Scottmoose's evaluation of the FE166's sound, there is a lot of detail and texture to notes I havn't heard before, and it is fast. The best recomendation I can give is that since I installed the speakers in the box a week ago, we have played music everynight (and daytime if not at work), the TV hasn't been on,
and music now has a magic again. And I'm looking forward to a weekend playing with 2 EL34 class A 4W monoblocks.
Must admit Its like being a kid again with a BIG new toy.
chrisb said:
Thanks Chris...
I would, but most of them around these parts are more like what you would call a hape than a human. 
Marce -I see you're in Scarborough, so you're not that far from a few FR fans; I'm down in Anlaby, just to the west of Hull, as are a couple of my friends, Steve & Ed, so feel free to fire me a PM if you fancy a chat at some point. Valves are something of a speciality of these guys too...
Regards
Scott
Foam behind the Driver
I'm glad you are getting better results, these are great speakers. Another thing you can try is adjusting what you have behind the driver. That is your first point of reflection for bass waves...to much will dampen the output instead of adding some necessary reflection...
I'm glad you are getting better results, these are great speakers. Another thing you can try is adjusting what you have behind the driver. That is your first point of reflection for bass waves...to much will dampen the output instead of adding some necessary reflection...
Hi, off line at weekend due to only having e-mail etc at work at moment, home PC was used as weopen between arguing over who was gonna use it.
Spent weekend listening to the FE166's with EL34 4W a channel class A.
The whole week since I fired up the FE's has been an education, specialy with all the good advice I've had of the forum, this weekend has been a bit of a shock, to put it mildley.
I was blown away!
The sound was absolutely unbelivable, I didn't expect (or was sceptical of) the bass, clarity, SPL levels, and all from a handful of watts.
Tube heads add another convert.
Spent weekend listening to the FE166's with EL34 4W a channel class A.
The whole week since I fired up the FE's has been an education, specialy with all the good advice I've had of the forum, this weekend has been a bit of a shock, to put it mildley.
I was blown away!
The sound was absolutely unbelivable, I didn't expect (or was sceptical of) the bass, clarity, SPL levels, and all from a handful of watts.
Tube heads add another convert.
Thank you Scott, its been a long journey getting there, and I should imagine its gonna be a long journey experimenting. I shall be looking for a real horn design next.
What I've discovered over the weekend is how listenable to music can be, I know its a contradicting statement, but one that I didn't realise untill I tried it. (Years of reading Noel Kenwood's views in the 90's finaly sank in).
Fin1bxn, funny you should mention that foam (Craft Foam, Funkyfoam), its what I used to line the mouth of the horn (the black in the photos above) as it gives a realy nice finish, and I didn't fancy trying to paint the inside of the horns, I've got a few square foot, I'll give it a go.
What I've discovered over the weekend is how listenable to music can be, I know its a contradicting statement, but one that I didn't realise untill I tried it. (Years of reading Noel Kenwood's views in the 90's finaly sank in).
Fin1bxn, funny you should mention that foam (Craft Foam, Funkyfoam), its what I used to line the mouth of the horn (the black in the photos above) as it gives a realy nice finish, and I didn't fancy trying to paint the inside of the horns, I've got a few square foot, I'll give it a go.
Hi Fin1bxn
followed your advice last night and ripped out the acoustic foam etc, suddenly I had bass. The foam in the expansion chamber was stiffling everything. For the same volume setting sounded much louder and I could feel the bass.
I have partly been basing my expectations on the sound of the FE166's on one of my favorite speakers I have ever owned the TDL Studio 1M's a transmission line design with a similar sized driver. I couldn't understand why the BLH was so bass lite.
So thanks for that, they realy do sing now.
Only problem is I am under orders now to finish veneering and oiling (danish) this weekend, strict orders of the boss. Personaly I find bare MDF give a contempary Industrial look. (her answer to that made my ears red!!!)
followed your advice last night and ripped out the acoustic foam etc, suddenly I had bass. The foam in the expansion chamber was stiffling everything. For the same volume setting sounded much louder and I could feel the bass.
I have partly been basing my expectations on the sound of the FE166's on one of my favorite speakers I have ever owned the TDL Studio 1M's a transmission line design with a similar sized driver. I couldn't understand why the BLH was so bass lite.
So thanks for that, they realy do sing now.
Only problem is I am under orders now to finish veneering and oiling (danish) this weekend, strict orders of the boss. Personaly I find bare MDF give a contempary Industrial look. (her answer to that made my ears red!!!)
Hi Scott,
maple, well actualy I'm cheeting on this job. because I used screws instead of biscuits, and got fed up of trying to get it perfectly flat, I've used 4mm maple veneered plywood, the baffles are some left over ash ( I think), I swapped a scrap metro for two large pieces wany edged and unfinished.
I have a preference for brown wood, ie I am not a fan of mahoganys (redish tints), and prefer light woods, ash, sycamore, maple, and love birds eye maple, burrs are also a favorite, but cost is prohibitive. BE maple was my first choice, untill I priced it up.
I tend to use either Danish oil for a satin or low gloss finish and Rustins plastic coating when I want a high gloss finish. Rustins also comes in black for that piano black look.I find both are very forgiving finishes, and like to use both on projects to give a contrast.
when I get round to my sons metronomes I found some blue dyed birds eye maple which will look cool with a high gloss finish.
http://www.originalmarquetry.co.uk/veneers.asp
As to my beloved, when I did the kitchen, it was gloss white units, so she decieded red (and I mean RED) walls would give a nice contrast, as soon as I'd finished, she decieded it was to bright and she wanted WHITE!!!!! Trouble is I've got a permenant thumbprint on my forehead.
maple, well actualy I'm cheeting on this job. because I used screws instead of biscuits, and got fed up of trying to get it perfectly flat, I've used 4mm maple veneered plywood, the baffles are some left over ash ( I think), I swapped a scrap metro for two large pieces wany edged and unfinished.
I have a preference for brown wood, ie I am not a fan of mahoganys (redish tints), and prefer light woods, ash, sycamore, maple, and love birds eye maple, burrs are also a favorite, but cost is prohibitive. BE maple was my first choice, untill I priced it up.
I tend to use either Danish oil for a satin or low gloss finish and Rustins plastic coating when I want a high gloss finish. Rustins also comes in black for that piano black look.I find both are very forgiving finishes, and like to use both on projects to give a contrast.
when I get round to my sons metronomes I found some blue dyed birds eye maple which will look cool with a high gloss finish.
http://www.originalmarquetry.co.uk/veneers.asp
As to my beloved, when I did the kitchen, it was gloss white units, so she decieded red (and I mean RED) walls would give a nice contrast, as soon as I'd finished, she decieded it was to bright and she wanted WHITE!!!!! Trouble is I've got a permenant thumbprint on my forehead.
Bad news (and good).
Got a new shiney black plasma TV for HER, with nice shiney glass stand etc.
So all my nice maple veneering etc was in vain cos now I'm getting,
"they'd look better if they were shiney black like everything else"
and
"they look old fashioned dont they"
the good news is they look SMALL now, so I can go up a notch and make them "shiney black" and bigger, BIGGER, BIGGER.
Got a new shiney black plasma TV for HER, with nice shiney glass stand etc.
So all my nice maple veneering etc was in vain cos now I'm getting,
"they'd look better if they were shiney black like everything else"
and
"they look old fashioned dont they"
the good news is they look SMALL now, so I can go up a notch and make them "shiney black" and bigger, BIGGER, BIGGER.
hi again,
finaly added some FT17's to the FE166's.
Crossover currently 0.68uf in line with pos terminal. Have got larger values to try but from initial listening I think they may be to much. Only listed for a few hours last night, but again was surprised, initialy they sounded rough and could tell the tweeters were there, after a bit of a blast thing tamed down and they added just a little bit to the top end, very suptle and very nice.
The whole range seemed louder and the bass was more noticable.
The housings are made from sections of MDF machined on my router table with a template then stuck together. As I dont own a liathe, the final sanding etc was done by shoving a 8mm bolt down the business end and fastening them into my SDS drill, wich was clamped in a workbench. Then all was needed was to bribe one of the kids with a 50p ice cream, to pull the trigger and hey presto a very exciting pseudo liathe (bit like a cross between machining and dodgeball), for future reference I WILL get a proper laithe before I try any more circular work.
On the whole I dont think the FE166's require a tweeter, but I do think just that extra bit of sparkle at the top end has made them sound even better.
This just gets more and more fun.
PS sorry about the image being 90deg out.
finaly added some FT17's to the FE166's.
Crossover currently 0.68uf in line with pos terminal. Have got larger values to try but from initial listening I think they may be to much. Only listed for a few hours last night, but again was surprised, initialy they sounded rough and could tell the tweeters were there, after a bit of a blast thing tamed down and they added just a little bit to the top end, very suptle and very nice.
The whole range seemed louder and the bass was more noticable.
The housings are made from sections of MDF machined on my router table with a template then stuck together. As I dont own a liathe, the final sanding etc was done by shoving a 8mm bolt down the business end and fastening them into my SDS drill, wich was clamped in a workbench. Then all was needed was to bribe one of the kids with a 50p ice cream, to pull the trigger and hey presto a very exciting pseudo liathe (bit like a cross between machining and dodgeball), for future reference I WILL get a proper laithe before I try any more circular work.
On the whole I dont think the FE166's require a tweeter, but I do think just that extra bit of sparkle at the top end has made them sound even better.
This just gets more and more fun.
PS sorry about the image being 90deg out.
Attachments
Cheers,
I'm going to try a variety of crossover variations as I've got a selection of cap values, just need some decent resistors of reasonable power. I also want the ft17's to break in a bit more, and as Scott mentioned earlier let my ears break in.
Unfortenately due to age, tinitus and a house full of wimmin,
too bright dosn't seem to be a problem any more.
I'm going to try a variety of crossover variations as I've got a selection of cap values, just need some decent resistors of reasonable power. I also want the ft17's to break in a bit more, and as Scott mentioned earlier let my ears break in.
Unfortenately due to age, tinitus and a house full of wimmin,
too bright dosn't seem to be a problem any more.
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