Yes, that's the way how i make my PCBs, i print the solderside at
600dpi with laserprinter from photoshop (after having done export
in Eagle with 600dpi), then i use phototransfer. In this case the print
already needs to be mirrored...
Chris, good to hear that you have the necessary artwork now !
Mike
600dpi with laserprinter from photoshop (after having done export
in Eagle with 600dpi), then i use phototransfer. In this case the print
already needs to be mirrored...
Chris, good to hear that you have the necessary artwork now !
Mike
Hi Mike,
I've tried printing positive artwork before with poor results. I am using an HP 5L printer. How do you do yours?
I hadn't checked the artwork yet. So I need to mirror it. Okay, thanks for the heads up.
What I am planning to do is print the artwork and drill all the holes. After this I clean the drilled PCB's and use a resist pen to draw in the pads and traces. It's a real pain. At least the IC's fit and the parts are straight. Fine detail is very difficult to do this way. Every board is a little different. Finally the Ferric Chloride bath. The boards are floated foil down, flipped for two sided. I heat the solution with an overhead lamp. Stone age, but it works.
-Chris
I've tried printing positive artwork before with poor results. I am using an HP 5L printer. How do you do yours?
I hadn't checked the artwork yet. So I need to mirror it. Okay, thanks for the heads up.
What I am planning to do is print the artwork and drill all the holes. After this I clean the drilled PCB's and use a resist pen to draw in the pads and traces. It's a real pain. At least the IC's fit and the parts are straight. Fine detail is very difficult to do this way. Every board is a little different. Finally the Ferric Chloride bath. The boards are floated foil down, flipped for two sided. I heat the solution with an overhead lamp. Stone age, but it works.
-Chris
Hi Chris, i also use a HP, i am not sure of the model, it's a networkprinter, it hink it's a HP5L... 
I print them on normal paper, depending on the quality i print it twice,
but that's a bit tricky ! (to get pure black)
Then i put the paper with the printed side down onto the copper that
is coated with photochemicals, cover it with some glass and throw "some"
UV-light at it. Yes, through the paper ! I have a several 100w mercurylamp,
today these lamps are illegal... (~30 years old) This needs ~2min.
(For these 2 minutes i stay out of the room, that much UV-light is simply disgusting and stinks !)
I get slightly better results if i also use a transparencyspray.
The difficult thing is the developing, i use ~5% NaOH.
For etching i use hot Natriumpersulfat (~50°), the etching takes ~5minutes.
It's important to move the PCB all the time while etching.
For this method the mirrored output from eagle is already correct.
The nice thing with this method is, once you got the whole process
working, you can make tons of pcb, but the drilling keeps painful...
If you're interested, i can give you more details !
Mike
I print them on normal paper, depending on the quality i print it twice,
but that's a bit tricky ! (to get pure black)
Then i put the paper with the printed side down onto the copper that
is coated with photochemicals, cover it with some glass and throw "some"
UV-light at it. Yes, through the paper ! I have a several 100w mercurylamp,
today these lamps are illegal... (~30 years old) This needs ~2min.
(For these 2 minutes i stay out of the room, that much UV-light is simply disgusting and stinks !)
I get slightly better results if i also use a transparencyspray.
The difficult thing is the developing, i use ~5% NaOH.
For etching i use hot Natriumpersulfat (~50°), the etching takes ~5minutes.
It's important to move the PCB all the time while etching.
For this method the mirrored output from eagle is already correct.
The nice thing with this method is, once you got the whole process
working, you can make tons of pcb, but the drilling keeps painful...
If you're interested, i can give you more details !
Mike
Thank you Pavel, now you touch my feelings, my place, beloved Copacabana
Wonderfull to have connections with that place...where all people live together in perfect harmony, any stranger there, do not want to be called: the French, the Arabian, the Englishman....no!..they feel as born the place...has some magic there...the love is in the air.
I born very near the tall building, the main Hotel, there are more 8 hotel in front of the beach,
The street i lived my whole life...school, girl friends, first job, family.... everybody there...near the tower hotel.
Copacabana is called, by us, the Princess of the Sea...and there's a beautifull music that every native knows, talking about our place...one of the most lovely places on earth... were God take a rest when finished to create the world....he played there, he made a mountain with the shape of a dog'a head.....he made a woman naked using the mountains line... and my best friend is still there.
regards,
Carlos
Wonderfull to have connections with that place...where all people live together in perfect harmony, any stranger there, do not want to be called: the French, the Arabian, the Englishman....no!..they feel as born the place...has some magic there...the love is in the air.
I born very near the tall building, the main Hotel, there are more 8 hotel in front of the beach,
The street i lived my whole life...school, girl friends, first job, family.... everybody there...near the tower hotel.
Copacabana is called, by us, the Princess of the Sea...and there's a beautifull music that every native knows, talking about our place...one of the most lovely places on earth... were God take a rest when finished to create the world....he played there, he made a mountain with the shape of a dog'a head.....he made a woman naked using the mountains line... and my best friend is still there.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
My best friend is still there, and i think he will never give up to be there
The problems happening there, are something very modern.... that started after the first Petroleum crisis.
We had not figth and drugs there...was a peacefull place till 1970.
My friend is there.... and he use to say that he is everywhere.
regards,
Carlos
The problems happening there, are something very modern.... that started after the first Petroleum crisis.
We had not figth and drugs there...was a peacefull place till 1970.
My friend is there.... and he use to say that he is everywhere.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Hi Mike,
Thanks, getting black was my problem. Running it through twice might do it. Getting the registration right for the second pass might be fun for smt work. I would have needed a 100% black artwork pattern for this. For now, I'll just do it the way I intended. Less work for Pavel.
-Chris
Thanks, getting black was my problem. Running it through twice might do it. Getting the registration right for the second pass might be fun for smt work. I would have needed a 100% black artwork pattern for this. For now, I'll just do it the way I intended. Less work for Pavel.
-Chris
Hi Chris, yes the 100% black is THE problem !
I was able to make one printout with 3 passes, this was a hell of black !
The trick is to use the slot for single paper-supply, run the paper through
with an empty print first, to heat up the paper. Otherwise the paper bends,
and the next pass has different scaling.
But for superdetailed SMD-pcbs i can't recommend this method...
Mike
I was able to make one printout with 3 passes, this was a hell of black !
The trick is to use the slot for single paper-supply, run the paper through
with an empty print first, to heat up the paper. Otherwise the paper bends,
and the next pass has different scaling.
But for superdetailed SMD-pcbs i can't recommend this method...
Mike
Documentation webpage created
Guys,
we're starting to have small mismatch here. So I have decided to collect the documentation in one place:
http://web.telecom.cz/macura/symasym.html
Guys,
we're starting to have small mismatch here. So I have decided to collect the documentation in one place:
http://web.telecom.cz/macura/symasym.html
amplifierguru said:
Is the failure caused by the input device having both signal and ground referenced to a higher, or lower potential? For a 1/4 watt resistor, this would take about 1.6V. I'm only concerned about a typical home environment, so maybe this would not ordinarily be a problem. If the guru's recommend, I can easily add the diodes.
Sheldon
Hi Pavel !
Thanks for collecting these files ony your page, i should have done that !
But i was not sure if there is still interest for symasym out there...
Sheldon, 1.6v ? Kidding ?
I felt myself how big this voltage can be, having the RCA-plug in the left
hand, the rca-jacket in the right hand... OUCH ! The feeling told me
at least ~100volts... It did shake me and i felt strange for some minutes...
Not a moment in my life i like to remember !
Mike
Thanks for collecting these files ony your page, i should have done that !
But i was not sure if there is still interest for symasym out there...
Sheldon, 1.6v ? Kidding ?
I felt myself how big this voltage can be, having the RCA-plug in the left
hand, the rca-jacket in the right hand... OUCH ! The feeling told me
at least ~100volts... It did shake me and i felt strange for some minutes...
Not a moment in my life i like to remember !
Mike
MikeB said:
Kidding? No. Ignorance on my part? Entirely possible. Maybe I misunderstand the issue. What conditions in an ordinary system would cause a high potential between the RCA plug and jacket? Something other than a hot chassis or other grounding fault in the source device? If all the devices are properly earthed, would this problem occur?
Sheldon
Ahhhh, but everything is not always properly earthed.
How about a tube preamp found in a closet or attic, cap is very leaky to the AC and happens to be hot.
Then there is my favorite. Cable antenna connection + grounded amp. If this doesn't do it, the next electrical storm could (thank you cable guys for the giant ground loop).
Granted this situation is in the minority, but it happens in North America. Fixed or written off many items over the years. All had cable involved.
-Chris
How about a tube preamp found in a closet or attic, cap is very leaky to the AC and happens to be hot.
Then there is my favorite. Cable antenna connection + grounded amp. If this doesn't do it, the next electrical storm could (thank you cable guys for the giant ground loop).
Granted this situation is in the minority, but it happens in North America. Fixed or written off many items over the years. All had cable involved.
-Chris
Well boys.... i am confused!....hello Michael and Pavel!!!...iuuuuuhuuu!
Do you suggest to remove this ground connection to input?.... having a 10 ohms resistor as input ground?
Now i turn myself confused...i think Sheldon too.
Related ground, i have the third wire in all my AC outlets.... and they are connected to a heavy gauge cable that is soldered in 12 half inches diameter copper bars.... those bars, having around 7 foot lengh where deep inside the ground...having inter-connections between them, and the ground received some salt to increase conduction.
In the reality, we have two in this building, one for atmosferic electrical discharge, and the second one is used to all buiding outlets.
My computer, my audio equipments, and also Refrigerators, all them have ground wire, that is connected to their metal chassis.
I am concerned about that subject...you may be kidding!..... how can develop big electrical potential over so small resistor alike 10 ohms.... as this condition will burn it immediatelly....have you said 100 Volts Michael?
If you are kidding, today you get Charlie....the duck in the middle of this story.....Quaaaack!
regards,
Carlos
Do you suggest to remove this ground connection to input?.... having a 10 ohms resistor as input ground?
Now i turn myself confused...i think Sheldon too.
Related ground, i have the third wire in all my AC outlets.... and they are connected to a heavy gauge cable that is soldered in 12 half inches diameter copper bars.... those bars, having around 7 foot lengh where deep inside the ground...having inter-connections between them, and the ground received some salt to increase conduction.
In the reality, we have two in this building, one for atmosferic electrical discharge, and the second one is used to all buiding outlets.
My computer, my audio equipments, and also Refrigerators, all them have ground wire, that is connected to their metal chassis.
I am concerned about that subject...you may be kidding!..... how can develop big electrical potential over so small resistor alike 10 ohms.... as this condition will burn it immediatelly....have you said 100 Volts Michael?
If you are kidding, today you get Charlie....the duck in the middle of this story.....Quaaaack!
regards,
Carlos