agent.5 said:
;-) You might be right.
Anyway, in answer to your question, I said it since we were (I think) talking about price-performance, and I think that Feastrex drivers have pretty good price-performance since they perform very well compared to other similarly-priced and more expensive speakers. But again, I mean "performance" in a subjective sense.
Mike
TerryO said:
Oh, I wish this were true, but just as I don't let my emotions overload my ability to see things as they are, warts and all, percentage wise there's way too many really sharp, better educated folks both 'in the biz' and in the DIY community for me to delude myself into believing I'm anywhere near the top of the heap.
I appreciate the thought though, I really do, it negates the sting of being told all my hard won knowledge is for naught when going up against the physics altering might of the 'god' Feastrex.
GM
"If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men." -- Paul's letter to the brethren in Rome
After having gone back over some of the recent posts, I would like to humbly suggest that it would be a very good thing if each of us tried to emphasize maximum charity in the way we read each other's posts and respond to them. Probably we are all trying to do so; I'm saying, "Let's try even harder." Remember, we all come from a variety of cultural and linguistic backgrounds, and there may well be various things that we take for granted that others do not take for granted. I don't think there is such a thing as "too much charity."
Sometimes, in certain contexts, even something that we are certain is self-evidently true may not need to be pointed out. If something is that self-evidently true, it probably does not need to be pointed out to most people, and if someone just does not get it, pointing it out is probably not going to help them to get it. (I'm sure this applies to me as much as to the next person. We all have our prejudices, etc., and try as we might we simply cannot be truly objective.)
Sometimes it is better to allow errors to go unchallenged. There are some potential fights/arguments that in the nature of the case can't be won, so the only real winning situation is to avoid getting into them in the first place.
I have enjoyed amicable, cordial exchanges with all the people posting on this thread and others over the years, and I hope to keep it that way . . . especially since many if not most of the posters here have probably forgotten more about audio than I ever knew in the first place. If even the most knowledgeable people can sometimes be wrong, it would be silly for me, in my vast ignorance, to insist that "I know better."
Thanks,
-- Chris
After having gone back over some of the recent posts, I would like to humbly suggest that it would be a very good thing if each of us tried to emphasize maximum charity in the way we read each other's posts and respond to them. Probably we are all trying to do so; I'm saying, "Let's try even harder." Remember, we all come from a variety of cultural and linguistic backgrounds, and there may well be various things that we take for granted that others do not take for granted. I don't think there is such a thing as "too much charity."
Sometimes, in certain contexts, even something that we are certain is self-evidently true may not need to be pointed out. If something is that self-evidently true, it probably does not need to be pointed out to most people, and if someone just does not get it, pointing it out is probably not going to help them to get it. (I'm sure this applies to me as much as to the next person. We all have our prejudices, etc., and try as we might we simply cannot be truly objective.)
Sometimes it is better to allow errors to go unchallenged. There are some potential fights/arguments that in the nature of the case can't be won, so the only real winning situation is to avoid getting into them in the first place.
I have enjoyed amicable, cordial exchanges with all the people posting on this thread and others over the years, and I hope to keep it that way . . . especially since many if not most of the posters here have probably forgotten more about audio than I ever knew in the first place. If even the most knowledgeable people can sometimes be wrong, it would be silly for me, in my vast ignorance, to insist that "I know better."
Thanks,
-- Chris
ddriveman said:
DD: yes, but with two different amplifiers, the LD with a 16 ohm, and the Lux at 22 ohm. Yes there is a difference but I don't know how much to ascribe to the difference in sonics between the amplifiers. The 22 ohm definitely sounds more lively and more balanced damping. The big issue is I have to get these drivers out of the MDF cabinets. It's obscuring too much fine detail. It's like drinking a single malt from a Styrofoam cup turns it into a cheap whiskey (I'm only imagining this, because I've never done it, and I don't care much for whiskey, actually prefer grapes to grain, i.e. Brandy). in a couple of weeks I'll have the bamboo wood cabinets and I expect Great things.
Here's hoping
regards
Brian
TerryO said:
Hi Terry,
I'll just list the fullrangers that I own or have owned... Saba green Cones, the Saba larger blacks cones as well, Klangfilm , Altec 755C, Coral Beta 8, Beta 10, Flat 6, Flat 8, Flat 10, Hartley, a couple more 8 inch coaxials,........ Schultz, Exact, Feastrex...
Please feel free to infer further...
Btw I have yet to list those that I have heard but don't own....... 
No real surprise GM & I are in agreement on this. No personal reflections of any kind whatsoever, and nothing at all against the drivers, within the boundaries & limitations applicable to all FR units, but high performance per £ they are not, except for a very exclusive group of people who favour specific things, and have the kind of income that permits a different set of values. Nothing wrong with that either of course, but it's fantasy to suggest these values will apply across the board for the majority of people, or even those who appreciate high quality audio.
We're back down to how much are people willing to pay for the last few percentage points of performance. I say 'last few percentage points' because how much 'better' (whatever that means) are, say, the D5nfs (~£1450 per pair) over, say, a pair of FE208ESigmas + pair of FT17 supertweeters (~£400). So much so that the asking price of 3.625 times that of the Fostex does not cause even the slightest pause for thought? I very much doubt it for most people, especially as the latter will likely kill the former stone dead at the frequency extremes, although YMMV as ever of course. You generally get what you pay for, but like Minnie the Moocher, the law of diminishing returns is alive and well in Berkeley Square.
We're back down to how much are people willing to pay for the last few percentage points of performance. I say 'last few percentage points' because how much 'better' (whatever that means) are, say, the D5nfs (~£1450 per pair) over, say, a pair of FE208ESigmas + pair of FT17 supertweeters (~£400). So much so that the asking price of 3.625 times that of the Fostex does not cause even the slightest pause for thought? I very much doubt it for most people, especially as the latter will likely kill the former stone dead at the frequency extremes, although YMMV as ever of course. You generally get what you pay for, but like Minnie the Moocher, the law of diminishing returns is alive and well in Berkeley Square.
Nigra sum, sed formosa,
Filie Jerusalem.
Ideo dilexit me rex
Et introduxit me in cubiculum suum
Et dixit mihi:
Surge, amica mea, et veni
Iam hiem transit,
Inber abiit et recessit,
Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra.
Tempus putationis advenit.
Filie Jerusalem.
Ideo dilexit me rex
Et introduxit me in cubiculum suum
Et dixit mihi:
Surge, amica mea, et veni
Iam hiem transit,
Inber abiit et recessit,
Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra.
Tempus putationis advenit.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi all,
peace!
Well after reading the post, i have some thoughts in mind that i may want to say.
In reality, I cant afford a Feastrex but i do believe that in certain way ( like the lowther) it just better the fostex ... (which is subjective to individual listening preference.)
But there is one thing I would like to highlight...
Proper calculated/simulated speaker box designed is equally or even more important before we can make judgement on any driver!
Although i dun always post (seldom) post any comment on the diyaudio forum, but i do read most of the threads in the fullrange forum which led me to build the BIB for the affordable ff165k. I find that the folks here are really very very helpful, knowledeble and most important willingness to share... to name afew Scottmoose, gm,MJK, gozilla & many more...
cheers
peace!
Well after reading the post, i have some thoughts in mind that i may want to say.
In reality, I cant afford a Feastrex but i do believe that in certain way ( like the lowther) it just better the fostex ... (which is subjective to individual listening preference.)
But there is one thing I would like to highlight...
Proper calculated/simulated speaker box designed is equally or even more important before we can make judgement on any driver!
Although i dun always post (seldom) post any comment on the diyaudio forum, but i do read most of the threads in the fullrange forum which led me to build the BIB for the affordable ff165k. I find that the folks here are really very very helpful, knowledeble and most important willingness to share... to name afew Scottmoose, gm,MJK, gozilla & many more...
cheers
9Dnf
A women friend of my wife and I came over to visit last Wednesday...
She listened the Feastrex/ Maiko and said. "I want this kind of thing in my 3 homes, Santa Fe, Hawaii, Park City.
Cool
So we are starting with the D9nf drivers.
Then an AMP, Monoblocks
USB/DAC
etc, etc
Ill send photos of the room.
Thanks Joe for your help.
Phil
Santa Fe
A women friend of my wife and I came over to visit last Wednesday...
She listened the Feastrex/ Maiko and said. "I want this kind of thing in my 3 homes, Santa Fe, Hawaii, Park City.
Cool
So we are starting with the D9nf drivers.
Then an AMP, Monoblocks
USB/DAC
etc, etc
Ill send photos of the room.
Thanks Joe for your help.
Phil
Santa Fe
Scottmoose said:
Good point, Scott. I was recently at an audio open house where I heard some Wilson Watt Puppies that were going for something like $20k or $30k, so I was making my mental comparison with those and with the $60k systems I heard at RMAF. Compared to those expensive systems, Feastrex has excellent cost-performance. But you're right--compared to the Fostex alternatives, they might not. (I'm also building some Zigmahornets for another room, and at a total cost of $100 for the pair, they might even beat the Fostex speakers in cost-performance.)
So, cost-performance seems to be entirely relative/subjective/a matter of perspective.
Mike
A very understandable conclusion that does not apply to this situation… In fact, far from being over inflated, it is very clear to me that Feastrex drivers are under priced worldwide, not based on any subjective judgment regarding their performance, but based on standard commonly accepted methods of arriving at a local retail price based on their export price. Distributors of such "exclusive" products, especially in small countries, may decide to behave as direct dealers without creating a wholesale price for dealers and manufacturers. Direct pricing is a distinct disincentive for retailers and small manufacturers who need to make a profit on all of the materials they employ. So by denying a greater margin we cut off potential allies. So be it. As I mentioned, there is no point in swimming upstream against the prevailing worldwide prices. This is an advantage for the consumer and hobbyist, though for most hobbyists the difference between $8000 and $6000 for a pair of drivers makes little difference.
As Feastrex enthusiasts we need to take a step backward and acknowledge that these drivers are in truth bandwidth limited. They will no more reproduce subterranean bass than they will super tweeter extension, nor do they rival the efficiencies found in compression drivers, or Altec and JBL woofers. What they do within their limitations is another matter, about which I have posted numerous times; often in the throes of Feastrex induced ecstasy. I have written elsewhere:
While I may have gone through phases where I thought that there was only one way to skin a cat, sharing rooms with extremely talented designers with widely differing points of view has taught me that, in fact, the approaches to the holy grail are manifold, and that each approach has its joys and limitations. While some of you may disagree, I put the magnificent TAD R-1 and its predecessor the M-1 and the Magico M-6 at the very top of the list of multi-way, dynamic speakers. They are in a class by themselves when it comes to accuracy, full frequency extension and the exposition of the full stage event. If its rock and roll or a symphony orchestra, it is all there, chamber music, small ensemble, pianissimo - it is all there. In visual terms these speakers might be represented by something like this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Way over at the other end of the spectrum is the single ended triode, high efficiency, full range crowd. Why would anyone, given half a chance, sacrifice the whole enchilada as exemplified by the previously mentioned masterworks, for a speaker that is challenged top and bottom and an amplifier that had better see a 95 - 98db efficiency rating lest it bottom out when you need it most? I think that these types of systems have the potential to "have it all" in another way: properly executed, such systems allow the listener (or the listener's brain) to fill in the blanks. Visually speaking, they might be represented thusly:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This is not to suggest that top end single driver full range systems are inherently romantic, (I don't think so) but rather that the artist who painted this scene evoked what was there equally well by what he left out, and perhaps thereby even conveyed a sense of the state of mind the actual scene gave rise to when he witnessed it - powerful stuff! Single Ended Triode, high efficiency lovers claim to have a more powerful emotional connection with the music with these types of systems than they do with the first type.
This is truly an apples and oranges situation. We have to defer to GM when it comes to his extensive "textbook and/or 'hands on' knowledge of driver/speaker design". Let's not stick our heads in the sand.
On the other hand,
O.K. I do favor specific things: Ultimate coherency, density and accuracy of information, ultimate musicality. In this regard, I feel that Feastrex drivers are unrivalled and do in fact represent a very big bang for the buck (or Pound). This is not to suggest, Scott, that you don't favor these things as well. You may very well feel that they are more readily and easily accessable elsewhere. I have no quarrel with that, nor do I expect the majority of people to feel that a single Feastrex driver can give them everything they want.
It is my belief that there are many who appreciate high quality audio who will respond favorably when exposed to Feastrex drivers.
The non audio file
My friend Johanna clearly is not an audio file.
She does not know ANYTHING about imaging, sound stage, ""PRAT"" nor does she know what single ended is.... And she does not care.
But something happened when she sat down...closed her eyes...and...simply... ...listened...
She slowly open her eyes and said...
"I want this in my houses"
Phil
Santa Fe
Have Mercy on the Music...
My friend Johanna clearly is not an audio file.
She does not know ANYTHING about imaging, sound stage, ""PRAT"" nor does she know what single ended is.... And she does not care.
But something happened when she sat down...closed her eyes...and...simply... ...listened...
She slowly open her eyes and said...
"I want this in my houses"
Phil
Santa Fe
Have Mercy on the Music...
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