20mH 0.56ohms steel plates core is not so big.
ERSE Super Q 20mH 16 AWG 500W Inductor Crossover Coil
This is the low pass used in Manzanita speaker.
Nice result Dr Why - congrats.
Photos of final location?
ERSE Super Q 20mH 16 AWG 500W Inductor Crossover Coil
This is the low pass used in Manzanita speaker.
Nice result Dr Why - congrats.
Photos of final location?
Now, after two weeks of more or less intense hearing, information slowly peels off: The spiral horn generally adapts very well to the Fostex BLH, in terms of character and dynamics. Only, the level does not quite agree as he should theoretically. But that will be compensated later in active mode.
From the playback can already say - still in passive mode with only one throttle - say, it is very pleasant to hear music with this horn. The bass reproduction is strong, but not intrusive - and abysmal and at the same time well-balanced. That is, there are virtually no holes or level peaks (except at 73 Hz) in the frequency response in the room. The previously existing Raummode at 80 Hertz has almost disappeared (happy *), so that here the HH absorber can be degraded. Conventional music runs almost exclusively on the Fostexe - only when a very deep bass event takes place does the big horn go off like the green hulk's elbow ...
Hard to describe in words how a big Kodo drum stands in the room and you feel the air vibrating...
I think I will adjust the subwoofer filter later to about 25 Hertz. Up to this point, the horn still makes very good sound pressure. At 21 Hz, however, a large diaphragm stroke can be seen. Therefore, I will disconnect at 25 Hz with 5th order - the driver has "only" 3.2 mm linear stroke. I have not tried the diaphragm stroke at higher volumes yet. With normal music up to about 30 hertz, even at higher room volumes (estimated at 100 dB), only membrane deflections in the sub-millimeter range can be detected. There are enough reserves for brutal volumes. (To be honest, I'm a bit scared ...)
Next step in the next few weeks: hang the monster and align - the bottom opening is now just 20 cm from the ground. later it will be 60 cm. Later in the summer I will start building the active crossover and the power amplifier.
D.W.
From the playback can already say - still in passive mode with only one throttle - say, it is very pleasant to hear music with this horn. The bass reproduction is strong, but not intrusive - and abysmal and at the same time well-balanced. That is, there are virtually no holes or level peaks (except at 73 Hz) in the frequency response in the room. The previously existing Raummode at 80 Hertz has almost disappeared (happy *), so that here the HH absorber can be degraded. Conventional music runs almost exclusively on the Fostexe - only when a very deep bass event takes place does the big horn go off like the green hulk's elbow ...
Hard to describe in words how a big Kodo drum stands in the room and you feel the air vibrating...
I think I will adjust the subwoofer filter later to about 25 Hertz. Up to this point, the horn still makes very good sound pressure. At 21 Hz, however, a large diaphragm stroke can be seen. Therefore, I will disconnect at 25 Hz with 5th order - the driver has "only" 3.2 mm linear stroke. I have not tried the diaphragm stroke at higher volumes yet. With normal music up to about 30 hertz, even at higher room volumes (estimated at 100 dB), only membrane deflections in the sub-millimeter range can be detected. There are enough reserves for brutal volumes. (To be honest, I'm a bit scared ...)
Next step in the next few weeks: hang the monster and align - the bottom opening is now just 20 cm from the ground. later it will be 60 cm. Later in the summer I will start building the active crossover and the power amplifier.
D.W.
My first post on this great forum (i'm more than glad i have found it 
)
Seeing how you folks love those cornus you made, i have definitely decided to make my own Been reading a lot lately, i have managed to read almost entire thread, but since i'm planning to order drivers soon, i have few questions and not enough time to find answers in this awesome thread (250+ pages to read... although its a great read, still don't have enough time...)...
Anywayz, i have decided to make big ones, 74 cm and in wood, meaning with a middle plate...
So, my questions....
1. Driver... i have set my eyes on Fostex and i'm still not quite sure which to chose... Which one do you think would be best for this enclosure (again, the biggie, 74 cm) FE103En, FE126En or FF125WK? i'm gonna power it with a low power T-class amp, btw
2. regarding opening on middle plate (for the driver)... should it be same diameter as the one on front plate?
3. will 9 cm be enough for channel depth (actually 2x4cm, since middle plate will be 1 cm thick)
Thanks in advance for your answers and, again, sorry if there are answers somewhere in this thread, but its a loooong read and i kinda don't have time to read it now (will read it later, i promise ).
Also, english is not my native language, so sorry for spelling and grammar mistakes...
)Seeing how you folks love those cornus you made, i have definitely decided to make my own
Been reading a lot lately, i have managed to read almost entire thread, but since i'm planning to order drivers soon, i have few questions and not enough time to find answers in this awesome thread (250+ pages to read... although its a great read, still don't have enough time...)...Anywayz, i have decided to make big ones, 74 cm and in wood, meaning with a middle plate...
So, my questions....
1. Driver... i have set my eyes on Fostex and i'm still not quite sure which to chose... Which one do you think would be best for this enclosure (again, the biggie, 74 cm) FE103En, FE126En or FF125WK? i'm gonna power it with a low power T-class amp, btw
2. regarding opening on middle plate (for the driver)... should it be same diameter as the one on front plate?
3. will 9 cm be enough for channel depth (actually 2x4cm, since middle plate will be 1 cm thick)
Thanks in advance for your answers and, again, sorry if there are answers somewhere in this thread, but its a loooong read and i kinda don't have time to read it now (will read it later, i promise
). Also, english is not my native language, so sorry for spelling and grammar mistakes...
Finally caught up!
Damn, 250 pages to read... But, was fun and very worthwhile
Anyways, since i have managed to catch up, you can disregard my previous post.
i have changed my mind about drivers, gonna order TB W4-1320SIF, next week probably and make Cornu's from plywood, but without middle plate. I think it will overcomplicate things. All other questions i had are answered or not even necessary to be answered.
Thanks for great thread, will post pictures as soon as i finish it
Damn, 250 pages to read... But, was fun and very worthwhile
Anyways, since i have managed to catch up, you can disregard my previous post.
i have changed my mind about drivers, gonna order TB W4-1320SIF, next week probably and make Cornu's from plywood, but without middle plate. I think it will overcomplicate things. All other questions i had are answered or not even necessary to be answered.
Thanks for great thread, will post pictures as soon as i finish it
Damn, 250 pages to read... But, was fun and very worthwhile
Anyways, since i have managed to catch up, you can disregard my previous post.
i have changed my mind about drivers, gonna order TB W4-1320SIF, next week probably and make Cornu's from plywood, but without middle plate. I think it will overcomplicate things. All other questions i had are answered or not even necessary to be answered.
Thanks for great thread, will post pictures as soon as i finish it
Welcome to the Cornu train - departing for fun filled sound!!
And i thought there will be no questions...
While trying to find an online store that wouldn't overcharge shipping to Serbia (since i will have to pay customs for shipping costs as well), i have found that there are three different versions of TB W4-1320 bamboo drivers... different magnets, as i could see, but almost identical specs... Is there any notable difference in their sound and whish one should work best in Cornu?
Drivers i have found are these:
Tang Band W4-1320SJ 4" Bamboo Cone Driver
Tang Band W4-1320SIF 4" Bamboo Full Range Speaker
Tang Band W4-1320SJF 4" Bamboo Full Range Speaker
If they are almost the same, i'm gonna go with SIF, since i can get that one rather easily
While trying to find an online store that wouldn't overcharge shipping to Serbia (since i will have to pay customs for shipping costs as well), i have found that there are three different versions of TB W4-1320 bamboo drivers... different magnets, as i could see, but almost identical specs... Is there any notable difference in their sound and whish one should work best in Cornu?
Drivers i have found are these:
Tang Band W4-1320SJ 4" Bamboo Cone Driver
Tang Band W4-1320SIF 4" Bamboo Full Range Speaker
Tang Band W4-1320SJF 4" Bamboo Full Range Speaker
If they are almost the same, i'm gonna go with SIF, since i can get that one rather easily
Posaydal,
I own the W4-1320SIF for several years and like them quite a bit. They have a smooth and extended on-axis response, but they do beam quite a bit, meaning a fairly tight sweet-spot, more so than other ~4" drivers IMO. I imagine this will be the same for the other versions as they share the same cone and phase plug. It's better if you can be at least 2 meters away from the speakers, but even then, power response won't be even if you move around in the room. It comes down to how you'll be listening to these.
I own the W4-1320SIF for several years and like them quite a bit. They have a smooth and extended on-axis response, but they do beam quite a bit, meaning a fairly tight sweet-spot, more so than other ~4" drivers IMO. I imagine this will be the same for the other versions as they share the same cone and phase plug. It's better if you can be at least 2 meters away from the speakers, but even then, power response won't be even if you move around in the room. It comes down to how you'll be listening to these.
Room where i plan to hang them is 4x4m, and listening position will be somewhere by the wall opposite to speakers, so i think i will be hitting that sweet spot quite easily. and 16 square meters for 74 cm Cornu with 4 inch drivers is optimal solution, i believe
Anyways, we will see when i finish them and when renovation in that room is over... Can't wait, tbh
Anyways, we will see when i finish them and when renovation in that room is over... Can't wait, tbh
Greetings, xrk971:
I seem to recall you mentioning in a post (somewhere, but I couldn't find it or I would have asked there) that you were going to try building a Cornu for the Radio Shack 40-1197 speakers. Did you ever get to building them, or did something else come up (like tons of silly questions from noobs like me)?
I have completed my test-build with the RS speakers for the Karlsonator, and am nearly done with the 'real' build of a pair of Karlsonators using 2x FaitalPro 3FE25-16s. I'm getting ready to tear apart the test build (which is quite impressive, by the way) and I am considering what to do with the RS speakers.
Have you any recommendations? 20x20 sounded like a good place to start for a foam-core build, but wasn't sure if that was too small to help the speakers. Also, how thick do you typically make them (ie how far apart are the front and back plates)? If 20x20 is too small, do you think a 30x30 of masonite (1/8 or 1/4"?) for front and back with foam for the spiral work?
I have not built the RS 40-1197 as Cornu. Still debating what to do with them as they are quite special. They would indeed work well in a full scale 27in x 27in x 5.5in Cornu as similar to larger Fostex drivers.
Good luck with all your projects. Note that the experience people have with Karlsonators suggests that they sound better in foam than wood. Something to do with the dampening properties of the panel and possibly the re-emission of sound from the foam panels.
Good luck with all your projects. Note that the experience people have with Karlsonators suggests that they sound better in foam than wood. Something to do with the dampening properties of the panel and possibly the re-emission of sound from the foam panels.
5F/8422T01
Great. I'm going to put an 5F/8422T01 2" driver in there and make a hopefully great micro cornu. I don't know how to simulate it but I figure from the mention of the 2" Peerless driver that it might just work fine.
Great. I'm going to put an 5F/8422T01 2" driver in there and make a hopefully great micro cornu. I don't know how to simulate it but I figure from the mention of the 2" Peerless driver that it might just work fine.
@ malthe:
If you plan on incorporating reinforcements for more safety or better stiffness, then I recommend the use of Threaded rods and nuts in the back wall for attaching the speaker.
Thus, not only the chassis can be attached, but also very easily achieved the necessary pressure for bonding become.
An example (sorry for the metric units ...):
Commercially available PVA wood glue requires a pressing force of 0.15 N / mm² (= 15N / cm² = 1.5 kg / cm²)
The horn courses are to be made of 0.5 cm bending plywood and are each 200cm long.
The necessary pressing force for all 4 Snails is thus: 0.5 cm x 200 cm = 100 cm² x 4 Snails = 400cm²
Multiplied by the minimum pressure of the glue of 15 N / cm² gives the 400cm² x 15 N / cm² = 6000 N (= 600 kg)!
To glue the horns correctly with the minimum pressure, you would have to put a small car on it!
For horns, which are made of foam, but much lower values apply - here you have the technical data of the Study materials and glue.
Greets D.W
(P.S.: I'm still listening, listening and - listening... )
If you plan on incorporating reinforcements for more safety or better stiffness, then I recommend the use of Threaded rods and nuts in the back wall for attaching the speaker.
Thus, not only the chassis can be attached, but also very easily achieved the necessary pressure for bonding become.
An example (sorry for the metric units ...):
Commercially available PVA wood glue requires a pressing force of 0.15 N / mm² (= 15N / cm² = 1.5 kg / cm²)
The horn courses are to be made of 0.5 cm bending plywood and are each 200cm long.
The necessary pressing force for all 4 Snails is thus: 0.5 cm x 200 cm = 100 cm² x 4 Snails = 400cm²
Multiplied by the minimum pressure of the glue of 15 N / cm² gives the 400cm² x 15 N / cm² = 6000 N (= 600 kg)!
To glue the horns correctly with the minimum pressure, you would have to put a small car on it!
For horns, which are made of foam, but much lower values apply - here you have the technical data of the Study materials and glue.
Greets D.W
(P.S.: I'm still listening, listening and - listening...
)@xrk971, could you help with a simulation of the 5F/8422T01 2" driver in a 14 x 14" cornu?
Here are the parameters:
Resonance frequency [fs] 93 Hz
Mechanical Q factor [Qms] 5.17
Electrical Q factor [Qes] 0.69
Total Q factor [Qts] 0.61
Force factor [Bl] 3.07 Tm
Mechanical resistance [Rms] 0.21 kg/s
Moving mass [Mms] 1.86 g
Compliance [Cms] 1.58 mm/N
Effective diaph. diameter [D] 44 mm
Effective piston area [Sd] 15.2 cm²
Equivalent volume [Vas] 0.50 l
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 80 dB
Ratio Bl/√Re 1.27 N/√W
Ratio fs/Qts 152.5 Hz
Trying to figure out what depth I need.
Here are the parameters:
Resonance frequency [fs] 93 Hz
Mechanical Q factor [Qms] 5.17
Electrical Q factor [Qes] 0.69
Total Q factor [Qts] 0.61
Force factor [Bl] 3.07 Tm
Mechanical resistance [Rms] 0.21 kg/s
Moving mass [Mms] 1.86 g
Compliance [Cms] 1.58 mm/N
Effective diaph. diameter [D] 44 mm
Effective piston area [Sd] 15.2 cm²
Equivalent volume [Vas] 0.50 l
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m) 80 dB
Ratio Bl/√Re 1.27 N/√W
Ratio fs/Qts 152.5 Hz
Trying to figure out what depth I need.
Hi malthe
In general, the Horn Throat Area (Ah) should be approximately 0.5 to 1 Times the Membrane Area (Sd) of the Driver.
Smaller Neck Areas - around 0.5x SD - cause a higher Efficiency, larger Ratio against 1x SD produce less Compression and thus less Distortion.
If the beginning of the Horn is known (for example, 3 cm) then you can count as follows:
Membrane Area Sd = 15.2 cm² divided by 2 Horns = 7.6 cm²
This in turn multiplied by the Ratio (Ah = 1x SD) then gives 7.6 cm² per Horn Start.
The horn Start should be 2.5 cm in this Example, so Ah is divided by 2.5 = the depth of the Horn (in this
Example 7.6 cm² / 2.5 cm = ~ 3 cm)
The inside Dimension of this sample Horn must therefore be 3 cm.
That's how I sized my big Spiral Horn (with Ratio 1: 1). When sizing your Horn you can vary at will, within Limits.
Here are very good multiple Simulations to get the best Result.
Greetings
In general, the Horn Throat Area (Ah) should be approximately 0.5 to 1 Times the Membrane Area (Sd) of the Driver.
Smaller Neck Areas - around 0.5x SD - cause a higher Efficiency, larger Ratio against 1x SD produce less Compression and thus less Distortion.
If the beginning of the Horn is known (for example, 3 cm) then you can count as follows:
Membrane Area Sd = 15.2 cm² divided by 2 Horns = 7.6 cm²
This in turn multiplied by the Ratio (Ah = 1x SD) then gives 7.6 cm² per Horn Start.
The horn Start should be 2.5 cm in this Example, so Ah is divided by 2.5 = the depth of the Horn (in this
Example 7.6 cm² / 2.5 cm = ~ 3 cm)
The inside Dimension of this sample Horn must therefore be 3 cm.
That's how I sized my big Spiral Horn (with Ratio 1: 1). When sizing your Horn you can vary at will, within Limits.
Here are very good multiple Simulations to get the best Result.
Greetings
It should be noted that in reality the optimum throat area has nothing to do with Sd.
dave
Hi Dave, you're Right - Reality is different from Simulation.
That's why Accidents happen, Houses and Bridges collapse and supposedly extinct Volcanoes erupt ...
The Advice given by me, the Ratio should be between 0.5 and 1 x Sd is just a Guideline, a Beginning. Finally, you have to start somewhere.
In Addition, I also wrote that everything should be simulated until the Optimum or a Compromise was found.
Greetings
That's why Accidents happen, Houses and Bridges collapse and supposedly extinct Volcanoes erupt ...
The Advice given by me, the Ratio should be between 0.5 and 1 x Sd is just a Guideline, a Beginning. Finally, you have to start somewhere.
In Addition, I also wrote that everything should be simulated until the Optimum or a Compromise was found.
Greetings