This is the project that i have my eyes on.
vicol audio : smps
The price will be big for my pokets but i'm willing to make an effort.
How is the chip compared to other classical chips?
vicol audio : smps
The price will be big for my pokets but i'm willing to make an effort.
How is the chip compared to other classical chips?
hard to tell if you do not compare the two head to head on the same equipment etc....and it is all a matter of taste....
I keep going back to good old TDA 1541 although newer designs are out there and are supposed to sound better, different it will be but which is better is a matter of taste and the amount of success the developer had with implementing the DAC in total
(a TDA 1541 can sound awful or it may sing)
I keep going back to good old TDA 1541 although newer designs are out there and are supposed to sound better, different it will be but which is better is a matter of taste and the amount of success the developer had with implementing the DAC in total
(a TDA 1541 can sound awful or it may sing)
I think that TDA1541 qualities are overrated. It's fame is mostly due to the fact that is cheap to find old CD players with it and it is packed in a big DIP capsule that DIY begginers can tinker/work easyer with...
I have a player with TDA1541 and several other players with modern DAC's. All of them have modded analog stages (better opamps) and... TDA1541 is my least favorite. Tried even the "NOS" mod... sounded horrid.
That is my conclusion, your milage might vary.
I have a player with TDA1541 and several other players with modern DAC's. All of them have modded analog stages (better opamps) and... TDA1541 is my least favorite. Tried even the "NOS" mod... sounded horrid.
That is my conclusion, your milage might vary.
Think that part of what you are hearing is already clear....
Compare a well implemented TDA 1541 S2 with any flavour high endish newer DAC and you'll hear its sonic merits, and disadvantages....
TDA 1541 is not at its best into an OPAMP (yuck, have to go brush my teeth).
That is just a matter of... personal beliefs at some point.
All the measurements are worse - noise, dynamics, TDH+N, jitter from the usual 7220... No OpAmps on 1541? Yuck, then no decent filters on the output... S2? Didn't have the opportunity, but the differences in specs are marginal at the best. I think is more of a placebo effect due to the amount of money spend.
Remember, we are talking about va ES9018 here! 133dB DNR, 120dB THD, very jitter tolerant...
All the measurements are worse - noise, dynamics, TDH+N, jitter from the usual 7220... No OpAmps on 1541? Yuck, then no decent filters on the output... S2? Didn't have the opportunity, but the differences in specs are marginal at the best. I think is more of a placebo effect due to the amount of money spend.
Remember, we are talking about va ES9018 here! 133dB DNR, 120dB THD, very jitter tolerant...
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Hi,
Maybe a better question would be if you could listen to them. i mean there are bound to be a few diy'ers in the neighbourhood you could visit and i guess most would be rather welcoming and willing to 'show' off their creations.
Listening would be best i think cause based purely on specs the ess products will win but the tda1541 must be popular for a reason. I like it and have two different versions of it, others don't like it. Yet i'd like to hear the ess products very much while i don't care for the pcm63 and such. guess that's just my taste.
One specific point in favor for the ess is that it seems easier to go balanced.
regards,
Joris
Maybe a better question would be if you could listen to them. i mean there are bound to be a few diy'ers in the neighbourhood you could visit and i guess most would be rather welcoming and willing to 'show' off their creations.
Listening would be best i think cause based purely on specs the ess products will win but the tda1541 must be popular for a reason. I like it and have two different versions of it, others don't like it. Yet i'd like to hear the ess products very much while i don't care for the pcm63 and such. guess that's just my taste.
One specific point in favor for the ess is that it seems easier to go balanced.
regards,
Joris
Yeah you're right THd tells a lot about Sound Quality..
no offense....I'll not begin to argue about opamps or somewhat silly filtering at that stage as the OP asked about the merits about ESS vs TDA
ESS is 1 bit oversampling, TDA 1541 is not and therefore are two completely different species
The ESS chip will be probably (?) be more expensive than good old TDA 1541, would that make any sonic benefit you claim it has based on mere specs to be linked to its higher price too?
Listening to the two side by side is the only thing that'll tell which you prefer, and you should ensure to select good implementations of both at that.
Just to add to the confusion :
ES9022 vs TDA1541
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...card-16-44-1-wav-transport-3.html#post2167975
ES9022 vs ES9008
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ng-new-ess-vout-dac-es9022-3.html#post2549681
Very low cost, very easy to DIY.
Just get datasheet from supplier, buy the chip and a SOIC->DIP adapter PCB, and you are half way there.
I can only encourage you to experiment yourselves.
Patrick
ES9022 vs TDA1541
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...card-16-44-1-wav-transport-3.html#post2167975
ES9022 vs ES9008
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digi...ng-new-ess-vout-dac-es9022-3.html#post2549681
Very low cost, very easy to DIY.
Just get datasheet from supplier, buy the chip and a SOIC->DIP adapter PCB, and you are half way there.
I can only encourage you to experiment yourselves.
Patrick
None taken because I know from experience that it does tell a lot about SQ. Not everything, but it is important. Sure, you might be happy with even 1-5% THD (NOS, tube stage), if it has the right harmonics, but I am not...Yeah you're right THd tells a lot about Sound Quality..
From Hearing the Wyred 4 Sound DAC 1 which has the ES9018, I would say that the TDA1541 does not have the same level of detail of the ES9018. The edges of instruments are more clearly defined, every instrument can be clearly heard, everything is crystal clear with the ES9018. With the TDA1541 you will still hear everything, just not as clearly.
However, subjectively, I found that the W4S DAC 1 sounded a little bit grainy, a little bit bright, and a little bit 'cold' but this was more recording dependent than an across the board thing. Simple answer is that ES9018 is a better chip. But I don't think that W4S aced the output stage.
However, subjectively, I found that the W4S DAC 1 sounded a little bit grainy, a little bit bright, and a little bit 'cold' but this was more recording dependent than an across the board thing. Simple answer is that ES9018 is a better chip. But I don't think that W4S aced the output stage.
Or maybe it is just the distortion that the dac adds. Very often "additional detail" is just the distortion some component or cable adds to the music. Really very often. Usually you have enogh of this additional detail after few weeks or getting back to previous set up.
Distortion? the ESS9018 is pretty low on distortion if you look at the specs on their website. But, yes, I get what you are saying. I am playing around with a little AK4393 DAC kit at the moment, which is really very nice sounding and has less "hardness" or "harshness" than the Wyred4Sound DAC. Now I have a quandry after listening to the ES9018 chip. I very much liked the extra detail, but missed the "smoothness" of other DACs. I am waiting for the DAC that has a grain free sound, void of harshness, and incredable detail.
For what its worth, which may not be much to some, but I dont think that the jitter reduction of the ES9018 is all that it is talked up to be. I say this becuse I connected the W4S DAC to my "good" PC source. and was getting really good sound. I then connected it to my Himedia ( media player with TV tuner) "bad" source, and played some music and found that the sound was considerably more spitty and sibilant than running the Himedia into my AK4393 DAC. Hardly scientific, but, I expected more from this "highly jitter resistant chip"
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Yes, possibly, my comments are based on one example of a completed product by one manufacturer. This is not to say that the chip is bad, or that other implementaions couldn't do it better. I think if you are a detail freak, this is probably the chip for you. However, if other things like a softer presentaion, are high on the list, other DAC chips may suit better.
But, the ES9018 is a chip that interested people really should endevour to hear. Its the first DAC chip that I heard that really does have a different presentation to the sound than any other DAC chip I have heard.
Nothing prepared me for what I heard with this chip. (though not perfect- what is? ) Its pretty amazing!
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Not suggesting anything other than the possibility that the detail of the ESS DAC can be retained with the edginess being taken down by a softer output stage. I have heard both a 1741 and an AAAK4398. I love the detail of the newer DAC, but can definitely pick up on digital artifacts. I hope to wither tweak this circuit with new clock and direct I2S connection instead of output or use tube output. Hopefully this will kill with digital remains. If not ESS here I come.
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