Finally, here is the generic flat pattern ring set.
This cone will respond to just the patterns shown in the picture of the virtual EnABL job. I have not treated one of these drivers yet, so I am not offering anything more complex than what I would put on a B200 I was treating, as a base minimum patterns set. The phase plug also has a set of patterns, three of them actually, so look closely. The tip has the typical six Block sets in two rings, around a droplet of paint.
When and if I do treat a pair, I will provide the mid cone rings and a set for the backside also. You will be able to add them to the patterns and Gloss coat already applied.
Now, will you please use the mateials in your kit from Ed, and the generic rings, to practice on some cheap speakers? Perhaps your computer speakers, or some in a boom box in the closet, just about anything really. You need to get your hand and eye skills aquainted with both the updide down pen's and the three curve pattern application you will be performing. This is not difficult to do, but you should practice until you are comfortable, before you treat the Visiton B200 drivers.
Bud
This cone will respond to just the patterns shown in the picture of the virtual EnABL job. I have not treated one of these drivers yet, so I am not offering anything more complex than what I would put on a B200 I was treating, as a base minimum patterns set. The phase plug also has a set of patterns, three of them actually, so look closely. The tip has the typical six Block sets in two rings, around a droplet of paint.
When and if I do treat a pair, I will provide the mid cone rings and a set for the backside also. You will be able to add them to the patterns and Gloss coat already applied.
Now, will you please use the mateials in your kit from Ed, and the generic rings, to practice on some cheap speakers? Perhaps your computer speakers, or some in a boom box in the closet, just about anything really. You need to get your hand and eye skills aquainted with both the updide down pen's and the three curve pattern application you will be performing. This is not difficult to do, but you should practice until you are comfortable, before you treat the Visiton B200 drivers.
Bud
For all of you who were looking at your Visaton 200 cones and wondering what planet I got my picture from, it came from the 10th planet.
Dave set me straight on the B 200 phase plug issue. So, here is a virtual EnABL for the stock B200. Note that the inner rings have been condensed into three rings of blocks, from what could have been four. Looks like the voice coil dome is attached directly to the cone in the picture, and if so then three will work as well as four here.
Bud
Dave set me straight on the B 200 phase plug issue. So, here is a virtual EnABL for the stock B200. Note that the inner rings have been condensed into three rings of blocks, from what could have been four. Looks like the voice coil dome is attached directly to the cone in the picture, and if so then three will work as well as four here.
Bud
Attachments
Geek,
Has been tried. There were many problems uncovered. The paint is too runny, then it skins over and clogs the fine screen pores, and then there is the wicking control, which doesn't.
Nu Way has suggested something called tamp printing. Haven't a clue as to what that means. They also want to look at a metal template with static charge control, of the flow from an air brush. Another possibility that may come about is a relief embossed extension left on the cone from a restamp plate. But all of these are aimed at large scale production activities. To set up, debug and apply any of them, will take more time than to sit down and do ten by hand.
Admittedly it would be a lot more interesting than the rather tedious nature of the hand work. And, as DIY geeks, it would be a lot more fun for us to do. If you dig back into the warren, there was an early look at DIY silk screen kits that C2CThomas poked a stick at. He wasn't fond of those results either.
Bud
Has been tried. There were many problems uncovered. The paint is too runny, then it skins over and clogs the fine screen pores, and then there is the wicking control, which doesn't.
Nu Way has suggested something called tamp printing. Haven't a clue as to what that means. They also want to look at a metal template with static charge control, of the flow from an air brush. Another possibility that may come about is a relief embossed extension left on the cone from a restamp plate. But all of these are aimed at large scale production activities. To set up, debug and apply any of them, will take more time than to sit down and do ten by hand.
Admittedly it would be a lot more interesting than the rather tedious nature of the hand work. And, as DIY geeks, it would be a lot more fun for us to do. If you dig back into the warren, there was an early look at DIY silk screen kits that C2CThomas poked a stick at. He wasn't fond of those results either.
Bud
For mass production an inkjet coder could do the trick...
http://www.ketanautomated.com/Pages/HitachiStart.html
This, plus a circular rotating jig... Of course, under-whizzer could be more complicated to get done.
But also, a well trained human does marvels so China could take this one too...
Gastón
http://www.ketanautomated.com/Pages/HitachiStart.html
This, plus a circular rotating jig... Of course, under-whizzer could be more complicated to get done.
But also, a well trained human does marvels so China could take this one too...
Gastón
PVA before EnABLing ok?
I just installed Planet-10 Phase Plugs which has made my FE166E BIBs listenable at higher volumes for longer before painful treble makes me turn the Trends Audio 10 down.
question: Will PVAing the cones interfere with EnABLing if decide to later? Should I paint PVA on both sides of the cone? wizzer cone too?
I've found that building the speakers is easy/quick part.
Thanks!
I just installed Planet-10 Phase Plugs which has made my FE166E BIBs listenable at higher volumes for longer before painful treble makes me turn the Trends Audio 10 down.
question: Will PVAing the cones interfere with EnABLing if decide to later? Should I paint PVA on both sides of the cone? wizzer cone too?
I've found that building the speakers is easy/quick part.
Thanks!
tilroh,
PVA before EnABL, but, you want a very thin PVA coating and as smooth as you can get it. So, radial application of the material with circumferential repaint, without adding any more PVA if you can. Means you will need to work very quickly. You need to have thought out what you will do and than practiced the strokes dry ,this is ESSENTIAL here.
Coat only one side and preferably the front side. This will take care of quite a bit of the corruption, so you need to accustom your ears to the result. If it solves the problems you are having, go no further. If you still find corruption and a lack of transparency then apply the EnABL patterns at cone voice coil joint and at cone surround joint. Listen to this for quite a while before deciding to apply a very thin Gloss coat over the PVA.
You will need to experiment with the PVA to find a consistency that will spread without the surface tension in the water used to this the PVA causing it to retract and bubble, as you apply it. Just a little thicker, more PVA to water ratio, will be good. You can also add isopropyl 99% pure alcohol in small quantities to help adjust the spreading qualities.
Or, you could just go straight to EnABL.
Another place to look, before you do anything more, is the whizzer. I am not familiar with this driver, insofar as I have not treated a pair, but all of the whizzer cones that I have dealt with, that have a flat "hat brim" at the end of the whizzer have needed the hard chine edge at the joint between cone and flat brim, softened, physically. As in over bending the brim in both directions, by pinching it in small increments around the circumference. To try this just pinch it slightly, with the edge of the brim moving towards the cone surface and then bring it back to flat and listen to music that has portions that irritate you. This may actually be all you will need to do. If this does help but not enough then pinch is slightly in the opposite direction and bring it back flat. If you still need more, then try the PVA compound, though that will not help the whizzer, and you really don't want to use the PVA on the whizzer front side and only maybe on the backside.
I would expect better success from doing experiments on cheaper whizzer cone drivers before you tackle this one. And I would get in touch with Dave Dlugos, as I do think he has treated these drivers successfully with PVA and EnABL.
Bud
PVA before EnABL, but, you want a very thin PVA coating and as smooth as you can get it. So, radial application of the material with circumferential repaint, without adding any more PVA if you can. Means you will need to work very quickly. You need to have thought out what you will do and than practiced the strokes dry ,this is ESSENTIAL here.
Coat only one side and preferably the front side. This will take care of quite a bit of the corruption, so you need to accustom your ears to the result. If it solves the problems you are having, go no further. If you still find corruption and a lack of transparency then apply the EnABL patterns at cone voice coil joint and at cone surround joint. Listen to this for quite a while before deciding to apply a very thin Gloss coat over the PVA.
You will need to experiment with the PVA to find a consistency that will spread without the surface tension in the water used to this the PVA causing it to retract and bubble, as you apply it. Just a little thicker, more PVA to water ratio, will be good. You can also add isopropyl 99% pure alcohol in small quantities to help adjust the spreading qualities.
Or, you could just go straight to EnABL.
Another place to look, before you do anything more, is the whizzer. I am not familiar with this driver, insofar as I have not treated a pair, but all of the whizzer cones that I have dealt with, that have a flat "hat brim" at the end of the whizzer have needed the hard chine edge at the joint between cone and flat brim, softened, physically. As in over bending the brim in both directions, by pinching it in small increments around the circumference. To try this just pinch it slightly, with the edge of the brim moving towards the cone surface and then bring it back to flat and listen to music that has portions that irritate you. This may actually be all you will need to do. If this does help but not enough then pinch is slightly in the opposite direction and bring it back flat. If you still need more, then try the PVA compound, though that will not help the whizzer, and you really don't want to use the PVA on the whizzer front side and only maybe on the backside.
I would expect better success from doing experiments on cheaper whizzer cone drivers before you tackle this one. And I would get in touch with Dave Dlugos, as I do think he has treated these drivers successfully with PVA and EnABL.
Bud
What Bud says is good advise... to add to it. You want the PVA (puzzlecoat) thinned enuff that you can spread it thinly, yet not so thin that it soaks into the paper beyond the 1st little bit. Since the amount of thinning required is different depending on the brand, batch & age of the bottle there is no set recipe to get the right consistenacy. I pour some into a container and then add drops of water at a time until it feels right. The right amount should spread smoothly and not be runny, I find that with the appropriate thickness it is getting tacky just as you finish -- if you go really quickly. The smaller the driver the easier it is to get too much on. I use a 1..2" or 3/8" wide brush, and for the 4" drivers i most often do, a coat is measured in 1 or 2 tamped brushloads. Always better to do 3 thinner coats tahn try to get it in one. The 1st seals the surface & the 2nd sits on top. If the cone is shiny after you are done, you probably have too much. If you have done it in layers you can peel off the top layers with isoproponal, but getting it even can be a problem.
I see people mixing 1:1 or 3:1 PVA to water, i'm probably closer to 5-10:1, it doesn't take much water (or food colour) to thin it.
I uaually apply it circumferely to spread it out as evenly as possible and finish with a radial stroke from the dustcap to the surround. Be ready to clean up (water & q-tip) any that gets on the surround or basket.
dave
I see people mixing 1:1 or 3:1 PVA to water, i'm probably closer to 5-10:1, it doesn't take much water (or food colour) to thin it.
I uaually apply it circumferely to spread it out as evenly as possible and finish with a radial stroke from the dustcap to the surround. Be ready to clean up (water & q-tip) any that gets on the surround or basket.
dave
Speaking of puzzlecoat & pva
Is there an equivalent in the EU? A corespondent has asked me to send some to him in Germany. I'll do so but I want to explore a more cost effective solution for them besides sending a 4 fl. oz. bottle across the pond...the shipping would be more than the cost of the stuff.
On a similar note: Modge Podge has a product labeled "Puzzle Saver". It appears to be what is needed here. Anyone familiar with it?
Is there an equivalent in the EU? A corespondent has asked me to send some to him in Germany. I'll do so but I want to explore a more cost effective solution for them besides sending a 4 fl. oz. bottle across the pond...the shipping would be more than the cost of the stuff.
On a similar note: Modge Podge has a product labeled "Puzzle Saver". It appears to be what is needed here. Anyone familiar with it?
better applicator?
Bud, Dave, et al.
While cleaning out a drawer I saw a brochure I picked up at a trade show years ago. It looks like it may be just the ticket for anyone EnABLing multiple drivers. I don't remember how well it worked, but apparently well enough to get me to pick up a brochure and keep it.
http://www.silkpaint.com/airpen/
Bud, Dave, et al.
While cleaning out a drawer I saw a brochure I picked up at a trade show years ago. It looks like it may be just the ticket for anyone EnABLing multiple drivers. I don't remember how well it worked, but apparently well enough to get me to pick up a brochure and keep it.
http://www.silkpaint.com/airpen/
Micro Gloss
http://www.wonderlandmodels.com/Mic...x314038.html?zenid=fcgjtm83193m66fo2kvhoq13g6
Mod Podge
http://www.doart.co.uk/acatalog/Glue1.html
http://www.studioartshop.com/acatalog/Glues_and_tapes.html
http://www.fingertipcrafts.co.uk/mod-podge-3945-p.asp
Also found Mod Podge in some ART and Craft supply shops, though these tend to be a rare site in some UK towns usualy found out of the town centre.
Hope it helps
http://www.wonderlandmodels.com/Mic...x314038.html?zenid=fcgjtm83193m66fo2kvhoq13g6
Mod Podge
http://www.doart.co.uk/acatalog/Glue1.html
http://www.studioartshop.com/acatalog/Glues_and_tapes.html
http://www.fingertipcrafts.co.uk/mod-podge-3945-p.asp
Also found Mod Podge in some ART and Craft supply shops, though these tend to be a rare site in some UK towns usualy found out of the town centre.
Hope it helps
Pre EnABL treatment
I removed my FE166Es from the BIB cabinets and gave them one thin coat of PVA. I also bent the "hat brims"on the whizzer cones down, up and back level. The painful harshness is now gone and I noticed I was listening with the volume two notches higher. It didn't sound louder but sounded bigger.
I've been testing with Ry Cooder's Bop Till You Drop, the bass is more distinct (I wasn't expecting changes in the bass, it jumped out at me) and I heard brushes on the symbols that I'd never heard before. There is also a new quality I think might be depth or decay or reverb or sump'n that made me late for my GF's B-day party.
Speakerwise, I feel like I've got something above average now.
I don't know if I need another thin coat of PVA.
I'm going to build a pair of Needles, treat the FRS8s like this and give EnABL a go before attempting to EnABL the 166s.
Sorry for the long post but I get funny looks when I try and relate the above to my friends and I've got to tell someone.
Thanks for the guidance!
I removed my FE166Es from the BIB cabinets and gave them one thin coat of PVA. I also bent the "hat brims"on the whizzer cones down, up and back level. The painful harshness is now gone and I noticed I was listening with the volume two notches higher. It didn't sound louder but sounded bigger.
I've been testing with Ry Cooder's Bop Till You Drop, the bass is more distinct (I wasn't expecting changes in the bass, it jumped out at me) and I heard brushes on the symbols that I'd never heard before. There is also a new quality I think might be depth or decay or reverb or sump'n that made me late for my GF's B-day party.
Speakerwise, I feel like I've got something above average now.
I don't know if I need another thin coat of PVA.
I'm going to build a pair of Needles, treat the FRS8s like this and give EnABL a go before attempting to EnABL the 166s.
Sorry for the long post but I get funny looks when I try and relate the above to my friends and I've got to tell someone.
Thanks for the guidance!