Hi Bud,
Please excuse another question, perhaps often answered -
Does the whole EnABLing process start with an initial first coat to "seal the surface" of the cones before "dots"?
Or is it the other way round - more effective with the paint of the "dots" embedded deeper into the cone surface, and coated after?
Txs ...Jh
Please excuse another question, perhaps often answered -
Does the whole EnABLing process start with an initial first coat to "seal the surface" of the cones before "dots"?
Or is it the other way round - more effective with the paint of the "dots" embedded deeper into the cone surface, and coated after?
Txs ...Jh
James,
Dave has introduced a precoat process, using Damar for a shape and then sealing the paper with light coats of Modge Podge, which does appear to be one of the many variations of Polly Vinyl Acrylic, usually referred to as PVA.
Prior to his teachings I had always just applied the pattern blocks directly to the paper, aluminum, titanium, silk cloth, poly carbonate etc. I still do this when I am treating a driver for the first time.
For the FE 126 Dave's additional pretreatment is a necessity, for my ears. The driver, with just EnABL materials applied, is over excitable and prone to dynamic excursions that I find beyond the call of reality. The Fe 127 is a rather different story. I have drivers here, mounted in Daves Fonken boxes that have just EnABL, Planet 10 and EnABL and untreated. I find the EnABL only drivers to be light and airy, very detailed and pure, but when compared to the Planet 10 plus EnABL drivers, rather thin and uninvolving, with no real strength in the mid bass and Bass. And, the upper register, right hand, of the piano is lacking in full tonal character, without the methods Dave applies.
My personal system uses the full planet 10/EnABL treated Fe 127 eN drivers, in a lovely bamboo Fonken Cabinet. The cabinets have a set of patterns on the faces that show into the room, and they fill a 20 X 8 foot wall, from side to side and top to bottom and about a mile deep, with as close to a perfect reproduction of music as I have ever encountered. These are the first speakers that came from hands other than mine that I do not want to "correct" That's right, I did not treat these Fostex 127's, Dave did.
There are "better" drivers, more accurate, more dynamic, more colorful, and with more complete information than these, but this combination of applied skills is stunningly musical and deeply satisfying to listen to, for hours on end, at any volume level I can stand, with any complexity of music I have to hand, out of around 5000 choices total. And then there is FM.
So, my strong suggestion is to follow what Dave is providing, so that you end up with a pair of drivers you will never let go of. You may be able to better them, if you go on with explorations into EnABL usage, but they are a true bench mark system, capable of providing music , depth and reality, that make a joke out of their tiny size and almost anything you can put them up against.
And I am talking about multiway systems costing many tens of thousands of dollars here.
Bud
Dave has introduced a precoat process, using Damar for a shape and then sealing the paper with light coats of Modge Podge, which does appear to be one of the many variations of Polly Vinyl Acrylic, usually referred to as PVA.
Prior to his teachings I had always just applied the pattern blocks directly to the paper, aluminum, titanium, silk cloth, poly carbonate etc. I still do this when I am treating a driver for the first time.
For the FE 126 Dave's additional pretreatment is a necessity, for my ears. The driver, with just EnABL materials applied, is over excitable and prone to dynamic excursions that I find beyond the call of reality. The Fe 127 is a rather different story. I have drivers here, mounted in Daves Fonken boxes that have just EnABL, Planet 10 and EnABL and untreated. I find the EnABL only drivers to be light and airy, very detailed and pure, but when compared to the Planet 10 plus EnABL drivers, rather thin and uninvolving, with no real strength in the mid bass and Bass. And, the upper register, right hand, of the piano is lacking in full tonal character, without the methods Dave applies.
My personal system uses the full planet 10/EnABL treated Fe 127 eN drivers, in a lovely bamboo Fonken Cabinet. The cabinets have a set of patterns on the faces that show into the room, and they fill a 20 X 8 foot wall, from side to side and top to bottom and about a mile deep, with as close to a perfect reproduction of music as I have ever encountered. These are the first speakers that came from hands other than mine that I do not want to "correct" That's right, I did not treat these Fostex 127's, Dave did.
There are "better" drivers, more accurate, more dynamic, more colorful, and with more complete information than these, but this combination of applied skills is stunningly musical and deeply satisfying to listen to, for hours on end, at any volume level I can stand, with any complexity of music I have to hand, out of around 5000 choices total. And then there is FM.
So, my strong suggestion is to follow what Dave is providing, so that you end up with a pair of drivers you will never let go of. You may be able to better them, if you go on with explorations into EnABL usage, but they are a true bench mark system, capable of providing music , depth and reality, that make a joke out of their tiny size and almost anything you can put them up against.
And I am talking about multiway systems costing many tens of thousands of dollars here.
Bud
turntable; lazy whatever
Greets
one point not mentioned for use of the lazy susan:
...loved the joke, Bigun..."Susan's on the table?"
Place the driver backside down on the lazy susan. Prop (elevate) one side of the lazy susan above the work surface. Elevate enough to get one side of the cone parallel to the work surface.
This horizontal area of the cone becomes the "sweet spot" for application of spots/finish.
Provide yourself with an arm rest made from books or whatever is handy. I find this "close coupling" of the forearm/wrist/fingers/pen/cone to provide more uniform results than "freehand"...less tiring...
HTH
Greets
one point not mentioned for use of the lazy susan:
...loved the joke, Bigun..."Susan's on the table?"
Place the driver backside down on the lazy susan. Prop (elevate) one side of the lazy susan above the work surface. Elevate enough to get one side of the cone parallel to the work surface.
This horizontal area of the cone becomes the "sweet spot" for application of spots/finish.
Provide yourself with an arm rest made from books or whatever is handy. I find this "close coupling" of the forearm/wrist/fingers/pen/cone to provide more uniform results than "freehand"...less tiring...
HTH
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
Pre-treatment:
how many strokes of the brush for the Damar pattern - is it a think layer, a generous layer or several think layers ? do we use the Damar straight out of the bottle (assuming I can find some) or do we have to thin it first ?
Here's another idea: put the cone on a rotating platform. Position the pen on a fixed arm just above the surface. Then wire up the cone to a pulsed source and as the cone moves up and down it will draw the dots for you in perfect registration
how many strokes of the brush for the Damar pattern - is it a think layer, a generous layer or several think layers ? do we use the Damar straight out of the bottle (assuming I can find some) or do we have to thin it first ?
Here's another idea: put the cone on a rotating platform. Position the pen on a fixed arm just above the surface. Then wire up the cone to a pulsed source and as the cone moves up and down it will draw the dots for you in perfect registration
Diary continues.
Today I will boil my nibs. Even I can boil water. Five minutes ought to do it (?)
Also have to get the generic EnABL pattern duplicated from pdf.
The pdf shows to be 37%. I am going to duplicate just from download with no size adjustments.
And, since my nib holder has no cork or foam by the tip I thought of getting some larger diameter shrink tubing and making a collar which would form to the shape of the pen.
Also got a slim calligraphy book that looks well-used from the library.
Today I will boil my nibs. Even I can boil water.
Five minutes ought to do it (?)Also have to get the generic EnABL pattern duplicated from pdf.
The pdf shows to be 37%. I am going to duplicate just from download with no size adjustments.
And, since my nib holder has no cork or foam by the tip I thought of getting some larger diameter shrink tubing and making a collar which would form to the shape of the pen.
Also got a slim calligraphy book that looks well-used from the library.
The boiling thing might keep carbon off the tips.
I reviewed the thread above which gives the FE127e inner and outer pattern in the link.
This should go directly to the pdf download.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1224615&stamp=1180821543
BudP, will this print the size needed at what shows as 77% to 8 1/2 by 11 paper?
I will print that out soon.
Today I made the printout of the generic EnABL pattern. The size it prints does not relate to the materials I have.
Dave, is this pattern manipulated in printing some way?
... off to boil pen nibs.
I reviewed the thread above which gives the FE127e inner and outer pattern in the link.
This should go directly to the pdf download.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?s=&postid=1224615&stamp=1180821543
BudP, will this print the size needed at what shows as 77% to 8 1/2 by 11 paper?
I will print that out soon.
Today I made the printout of the generic EnABL pattern. The size it prints does not relate to the materials I have.
Dave, is this pattern manipulated in printing some way?
... off to boil pen nibs.
shopping for Rapidograph.Mars drafting insturments on Ebay
Diary,
Out of curiosity I looked at Ebay briefly for Rapidograph drafting instruments. Yes they are pricey. But in the list there were things like incomplete sets with low starting bids. I know nothing about using these tools.
-- schultz --
Diary,
Out of curiosity I looked at Ebay briefly for Rapidograph drafting instruments. Yes they are pricey. But in the list there were things like incomplete sets with low starting bids. I know nothing about using these tools.
-- schultz --
how things work
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/Fostex127ETreatment#
I separated out this picture group for the FE127e.
The notes for individual slides are not on this group ( the notes that you would see when hovering over the picture).
When the pattern is trimmed properly it should lay in the bowl of the speaker and the near edge then upper pattern is applied using the printed pattern as a guide.
Any corrections from BudP, Ed or Dave?
This kind of deconstruction may not be needed for some but I have gotten print fatigue from looking at other references.
http://picasaweb.google.com/hpurvine/Fostex127ETreatment#
I separated out this picture group for the FE127e.
The notes for individual slides are not on this group ( the notes that you would see when hovering over the picture).
When the pattern is trimmed properly it should lay in the bowl of the speaker and the near edge then upper pattern is applied using the printed pattern as a guide.
Any corrections from BudP, Ed or Dave?
This kind of deconstruction may not be needed for some but I have gotten print fatigue from looking at other references.
You should also look at the pictures for the 126. There may be more information for you to visualy judge how the pattern is laying in the cone.
For printing PDF page files I always take off any of the size by % by unchecking the appropriate box in the printer panel that comes from the operating system. I then go to the printer specific details in the properties or preferences window, look under page layout and make sure that no % of page is used. Means that I am getting a 1 to 1 printout.
Undoubtedly there will be some complaining messages about printing beyond the margins being lost. Ignore these, the PDF has a hidden page border that has to be used when creating a PDF, so that the page is transcribed as 1 to 1. There is no printable line here, because it has no width, but the lame adobe product needs to know the size of the page border, before it can transcribe the original vector based artwork to a 1 to 1 file, as a PDF. Otherwise it expands the artwork to fit the page and you have no idea what the scale is.
So, set all printing to utilize the full page size.
Rapidiograph pens have their own issues. All to do with scrupulous cleanliness before and after using. They have a hair fine plunger that fits down into the pen tip and the whole pen body must be disassembled to get at it and the inside of the ink reservoir, to make sure they are spotless. To not do this religiously means the pen tip will be ruined the first time you don't clean it out within 5 minutes of finishing. As Dave points to elsewhere, the 66 pen tip or the 57 pen tip are far more useful and are a dream to clean up. And this does not even begin to discuss the lively conversation you have with the Rapidiograph pen, while trying to get it to make any type of mark at all. Don't waste your money here!!!!!!!
The pattern should lay down in the bowl and if you refer to the 126 and 127 pics, you will see how far down in the bowl it should be. Imagine the 127 pic, with pattern in it, to be a 12 inch driver or a 2 inch driver. The relationship of pattern location to cone outer edge, or where it is covered by suspension, would be the same.
Bud
For printing PDF page files I always take off any of the size by % by unchecking the appropriate box in the printer panel that comes from the operating system. I then go to the printer specific details in the properties or preferences window, look under page layout and make sure that no % of page is used. Means that I am getting a 1 to 1 printout.
Undoubtedly there will be some complaining messages about printing beyond the margins being lost. Ignore these, the PDF has a hidden page border that has to be used when creating a PDF, so that the page is transcribed as 1 to 1. There is no printable line here, because it has no width, but the lame adobe product needs to know the size of the page border, before it can transcribe the original vector based artwork to a 1 to 1 file, as a PDF. Otherwise it expands the artwork to fit the page and you have no idea what the scale is.
So, set all printing to utilize the full page size.
Rapidiograph pens have their own issues. All to do with scrupulous cleanliness before and after using. They have a hair fine plunger that fits down into the pen tip and the whole pen body must be disassembled to get at it and the inside of the ink reservoir, to make sure they are spotless. To not do this religiously means the pen tip will be ruined the first time you don't clean it out within 5 minutes of finishing. As Dave points to elsewhere, the 66 pen tip or the 57 pen tip are far more useful and are a dream to clean up. And this does not even begin to discuss the lively conversation you have with the Rapidiograph pen, while trying to get it to make any type of mark at all. Don't waste your money here!!!!!!!
The pattern should lay down in the bowl and if you refer to the 126 and 127 pics, you will see how far down in the bowl it should be. Imagine the 127 pic, with pattern in it, to be a 12 inch driver or a 2 inch driver. The relationship of pattern location to cone outer edge, or where it is covered by suspension, would be the same.
Bud
planet10 said:
Printers have a tool called a reduction scale which, I think, is avaialble at places like Kinkos and other mass service copy shops. If I remember how it's used, you have a diameter, give a target diameter and the scale spits out the correct percentage reduction.
I'll give that a whirl on the generic pattern in setting up for my sample piece used to practice.
BudP's jpg for the FE127e has already been calibrated and shown above.
Member
Joined 2009
Paid Member
a tip from the calligraphy book
This tip is sort of unusual and so I thought it worth noting.
The preferred method working with paint is to transfer the liquid from a small brush held in the non- writing hand to the tip held in the writing hand rather than dipping and shaking excess ink.
This seems elegant but not at all obvious for the beginner.
This tip is sort of unusual and so I thought it worth noting.
The preferred method working with paint is to transfer the liquid from a small brush held in the non- writing hand to the tip held in the writing hand rather than dipping and shaking excess ink.
This seems elegant but not at all obvious for the beginner.
difficulty with line weights
Diary
My first pen to paper attempt was not very successful.
I have the "stealth" finish supplied by Ed which is hard to see if practicing on white paper and on dark grey it dries out stealthily as well.
I began by using the A-4 (I think... reading the calibrations is tricky too) and had two line weights: too much and too thin. Also looking too big to be useful with this nib. After a few tests dried out they do not look much like lines but more like dabs.
My observation is I don't know how calligraphers get enough liquid to make a good stroke.
I cleaned up the brush (see tip above) and the pen with water-- ready for another day.
Diary
My first pen to paper attempt was not very successful.
I have the "stealth" finish supplied by Ed which is hard to see if practicing on white paper and on dark grey it dries out stealthily as well.
I began by using the A-4 (I think... reading the calibrations is tricky too) and had two line weights: too much and too thin. Also looking too big to be useful with this nib. After a few tests dried out they do not look much like lines but more like dabs.
My observation is I don't know how calligraphers get enough liquid to make a good stroke.
I cleaned up the brush (see tip above) and the pen with water-- ready for another day.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.