Visionary or .......?
Aside from the conveniently overlooked ecological footprint of production of the Gigafactories to produce the Powerwall batteries, attendant solar cells with which to charge them and how many other factors , what think y'all?
Could afford to take some public speaking lessons, and not exclusively from old Steve Jobs' presentations,
Oh yeh, there's this one more thing...
Aside from the conveniently overlooked ecological footprint of production of the Gigafactories to produce the Powerwall batteries, attendant solar cells with which to charge them and how many other factors , what think y'all?
Could afford to take some public speaking lessons, and not exclusively from old Steve Jobs' presentations,
Oh yeh, there's this one more thing...
well he's got a lot cooking at the moment, might be spread too thinly. I'd rather see one huge success 1st than a bunch of potentially fails 3-5 years down the line. The jury is still out. I wonder about the technical advisors, better or worse this aint no NASA of the 60's that's for sure. Might just be a big boondoggle for US in the end. Why is he so qualified to run big science and why did he put his siblings in his other business positions, its all kind of strange if you ask me. I think its a lot of talk, no action yet.
there's video tours of the X facility on line, It didn't strike me as legit, and Ive toured satellite assembly bays in TRW Space Park before.
I wasn't impressed with the 'powerwall' product. cost is high and isn't compatible with existing chargers and inverters. (10KWh is the same capacity 8 golf cart batt). Battery technology is a tough biz and experience weighs heavy.
IMO it needs to be modular and plug into the EV too, conceptually much like a cordless power tool battery pack. Either that or provide a turn key solution inverter/transfer switch/charger/ batt. just add PV panels.
there's video tours of the X facility on line, It didn't strike me as legit, and Ive toured satellite assembly bays in TRW Space Park before.
I wasn't impressed with the 'powerwall' product. cost is high and isn't compatible with existing chargers and inverters. (10KWh is the same capacity 8 golf cart batt). Battery technology is a tough biz and experience weighs heavy.
IMO it needs to be modular and plug into the EV too, conceptually much like a cordless power tool battery pack. Either that or provide a turn key solution inverter/transfer switch/charger/ batt. just add PV panels.
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If you guys have any idea how hard it is to start a company from scratch and successfully launch rockets to put satellites in orbit or to re supply the ISS, you would have a bit more respect for the man. I have been in the SpaceX factory and it is amazing what is happening there. A completely different model of how to run a space launch business. You don't need to be an engineer or scientist to be a visionary to start and manage successful companies. You hire the right people and you set the vision and the plan.
He set a risky strategy in place a few years back when incumbents like Boeing, Lockheed, Orbtlital-ATK, etc were all doing this for decades and charging more. With the latest prohibition on Russian made engines, ULA is scrambling to make a new engine that is US made. This has suddenly catapulted SpaceX to be in a position to dominate upcoming launches for the space industry. It's a bit of luck but the vision to do it his way was purely his own idea - despite not being a rocket scientist.
He set a risky strategy in place a few years back when incumbents like Boeing, Lockheed, Orbtlital-ATK, etc were all doing this for decades and charging more. With the latest prohibition on Russian made engines, ULA is scrambling to make a new engine that is US made. This has suddenly catapulted SpaceX to be in a position to dominate upcoming launches for the space industry. It's a bit of luck but the vision to do it his way was purely his own idea - despite not being a rocket scientist.
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There's one in our neighborhood. It has the brightest headlights I've ever seen (cover my eyes) on a car.
They already tried that, just a different kind of invasion.
Doesn't seem to be working.jeff
Hardly makes a difference here.
The tax savings on a Tesla company car are huge.
Retail of a Caddy CTS-V for example here is close to three times the msrp in the US : $200K.
Mainly due to added carbon print taxes, more than $100K (on a net import rate of $77K)
For a company car, on top of that comes 20% of the list price added to the income before taxes : $40K each year.
A Tesla company car costs half a CTS-V, does 4% : $4K
$36K difference with the Cadillac.
At a top income tax rate of 52% : $18.7K saved each year.
The tax savings on a Tesla company car are huge.
Retail of a Caddy CTS-V for example here is close to three times the msrp in the US : $200K.
Mainly due to added carbon print taxes, more than $100K (on a net import rate of $77K)
For a company car, on top of that comes 20% of the list price added to the income before taxes : $40K each year.
A Tesla company car costs half a CTS-V, does 4% : $4K
$36K difference with the Cadillac.
At a top income tax rate of 52% : $18.7K saved each year.
Visionary or .......?
Aside from the conveniently overlooked ecological footprint of production of the Gigafactories to produce the Powerwall batteries, attendant solar cells with which to charge them and how many other factors , what think y'all?
Could afford to take some public speaking lessons, and not exclusively from old Steve Jobs' presentations,
Oh yeh, there's this one more thing...
Here is a comment from Fiat Chrysler CEO about Elon, who is more qualified than you about commenting Elon.
Fiat Chrysler Chief Executive Sergio Marchionne said on Saturday that he had visited with Tesla, Apple and Google during a recent trip to California.
Marchionne, speaking on the sidelines of the opening of a Maserati dealership near Toronto, said he had met with Apple CEO Tim Cook and Tesla CEO and founder Elon Musk, among others, on the trip, during which he rode in Google's self-driving car.
"I'm incredibly impressed with what that kid has done," he said, referring to Musk.
Read more: Fiat Chrysler CEO on Elon Musk: 'I'm incredibly impressed with what that kid has done' - Business Insider
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routhon - I'm as qualified as the next guy to "comment" on what I saw as Elon's rather balky, awkward presentation. No doubt he's at the least a brilliant entrepreneur, I'd even opine a visionary on the same scale as Jobs, Gates and others. It was entirely my point to elicit opinions of those far more technically astute than myself.
What I've noticed conveniently absent in the self congratulatory conversation by those promoting the new wave of ecologically responsible "renewables", or purchasers of electric cars (my son included) is what is the total life cycle footprint of these new sources? In the case of batteries, from where is the energy derived? If solar, whether direct photo-voltaic or thermal (steam turbine, etc) what will the impact be of manufacturing of sufficient acreage of panels/reflectors to collect and infrastructure distribute all that "free" energy" ?
In the specific case of the electric cars, not only are there substantial amounts of chemicals and energy involved in production of the batteries, but then there's the motors - magnets and copper wire last time I checked. Even at an initial rate of only a few million new vehicles a year, that's a lot of mining, transportation of materials, etc. none of which is without ecological effect.
I can't imagine the same factors don't exist to some degree or another for wind, wave, or any of the "renewable" energy technologies - and let's not even contemplate nuclear - but the floor's open for the experts to educate idiots such as myself on exactly how any of the above is wrong or myopic. Having been married for 42yrs, it certainly wouldn't be the first time my thinking was corrected
What I've noticed conveniently absent in the self congratulatory conversation by those promoting the new wave of ecologically responsible "renewables", or purchasers of electric cars (my son included) is what is the total life cycle footprint of these new sources? In the case of batteries, from where is the energy derived? If solar, whether direct photo-voltaic or thermal (steam turbine, etc) what will the impact be of manufacturing of sufficient acreage of panels/reflectors to collect and infrastructure distribute all that "free" energy" ?
In the specific case of the electric cars, not only are there substantial amounts of chemicals and energy involved in production of the batteries, but then there's the motors - magnets and copper wire last time I checked. Even at an initial rate of only a few million new vehicles a year, that's a lot of mining, transportation of materials, etc. none of which is without ecological effect.
I can't imagine the same factors don't exist to some degree or another for wind, wave, or any of the "renewable" energy technologies - and let's not even contemplate nuclear - but the floor's open for the experts to educate idiots such as myself on exactly how any of the above is wrong or myopic. Having been married for 42yrs, it certainly wouldn't be the first time my thinking was corrected
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Hi Chris,
My intention is not offend or call anyone an idiot, just felt bit offended by your post which is just reducing the visionary like Elon to the one who copies presentations from Steve Jobs. Surprisingly news about Fiat/Chrysler CEO praising Elon came today, I thought he is the right person to answer your question and posted the news here.
Elon is known for disrupting industries/technologies. In the payments, Paypal, in the auto, Tesla, in the space, SpaceX. Its an extremely difficult thing to start a Car company that manufactures cars with batteries and sell them in an extremely competitive market. It is of no small feat. If a guy simply repeat the presentations from Steve Jobs, he couldn't have started these ground breaking industries.
Watched a documentary about Tesla at one moment he wired his last 3 millions to the company to avoid shutdown. Luckily market picked up from that moment he is survived.
About the environmental impact of these cars, for sure every other car produced has impact on the environment. Tesla is merely replacing one for another with zero ongoing emissions for the life time of the car.
Anyway, as you mentioned let the public forum discuss their opinions about this topic
Unfortunately this is a flawed observation, AFAIK most Tesla owners plug into the fossil derived grid.
My post was far from self congratulatory at least in the generally bad light the term is often used. I am proud of the car. My point was that people don't benefit from savings only when oil prices are high. I benefit even when its at a ten year low. Elon made electric cars sexy to more than a handful of geeks like me who have been pining for one for years.
As to how inefficient this efficient car is..I have heard the argument many times but the guys complaining about how my electric car uses coal or nuclear seem to ignore that a coal or nuclear plant has billions on the line and their power conversion is going to be more efficient than an ICE. Whats max efficiency of an ICE? Theoretically about 38%. Better than some of the real life power plant figures like 33-45% depending on the fuel and process. Really how efficient is that ICE? courses.washington.edu/me341/oct22v2.htm
Anyway I use Green Mountain Energy. 100% wind and cheaper than most options in Houston. Pretty efficient.
Someday my battery will need refubishing. Not cheap. I spent thousands keeping my beloved Saab 9-5 running so its just an expected cost with a car.
Electrics aren't just efficient they're fast. Crazy fast. Even my Leaf leaves literally everyone in the dust up to about 48mph. Then I give up but its fun the whole time.
I saw Elons roadster in Boulder many years ago. Accelerating around a curve. Beautiful. Maybe someday.
So..he's a pioneer and an inspiration. He's the American dream which of late has seemed a bit cloudy. This guy is reminding us what we can do when we chase our dreams. He's making it clear that we don't need permission to be successful.
As to how inefficient this efficient car is..I have heard the argument many times but the guys complaining about how my electric car uses coal or nuclear seem to ignore that a coal or nuclear plant has billions on the line and their power conversion is going to be more efficient than an ICE. Whats max efficiency of an ICE? Theoretically about 38%. Better than some of the real life power plant figures like 33-45% depending on the fuel and process. Really how efficient is that ICE? courses.washington.edu/me341/oct22v2.htm
Anyway I use Green Mountain Energy. 100% wind and cheaper than most options in Houston. Pretty efficient.
Someday my battery will need refubishing. Not cheap. I spent thousands keeping my beloved Saab 9-5 running so its just an expected cost with a car.
Electrics aren't just efficient they're fast. Crazy fast. Even my Leaf leaves literally everyone in the dust up to about 48mph. Then I give up but its fun the whole time.
I saw Elons roadster in Boulder many years ago. Accelerating around a curve. Beautiful. Maybe someday.
So..he's a pioneer and an inspiration. He's the American dream which of late has seemed a bit cloudy. This guy is reminding us what we can do when we chase our dreams. He's making it clear that we don't need permission to be successful.
No idea about Lithium batteries but solar panels are largely recyclable after their minimum 25 year life span including 95% of their semiconductor material which comes out of the process as commercially pure ready to make more panels.
It would obviously be trivial to make wind turbines completely recyclable.
As for plugging into the fossil fuel powered grid an electric car is still using significantly less fossils than a car with an internal combustion engine.
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