"Does anyone have a closed-box speaker that they want to try this with? "
Yes, Steve, as a matter of fact I do.
Or if someone will help me model one with 4 TB 3w-871's I'll have it built by Monday.
Actually, I'd prefer using three TB's and a Vifa D26TG-35-06, because the baffles are already made in some nice 20 yr. old black walnut.
Thank you for asking.
Yes, Steve, as a matter of fact I do.
Or if someone will help me model one with 4 TB 3w-871's I'll have it built by Monday.
Actually, I'd prefer using three TB's and a Vifa D26TG-35-06, because the baffles are already made in some nice 20 yr. old black walnut.
Thank you for asking.
x. onasis said:
OK, that's a good start. So, we're talking about 3 full-range units plus a tweeter.
We could start by analysing the performance of the drivers as a linear array. To do this, we need to know the configuration of the drivers. Are the three TBs together with the tweeter above? To analyse the performance of the linear array we could use the FRD Consortium VPR software. This analyses the vertical polar response of your array. It's an Excel spreadsheet. We have to input the driver diameters and the gap between them. Presumably, you have this information from your baffle. We also need to know the approximate range of distances from speaker to listener that you will be operating at.
If we know these things, we can work out at what frequency we crossover to the tweeter in order to avoid any beaming, combing, etc. at the high frequencies.
Next the cabinet: Do you have a box already for the TBs or do you know the shape and volume that you want? I'm happy to help if you start us off. If you're building a speaker like the System IV, I would advise that you start by building the best possible cabinet as if it were a sealed-box speaker. The power handling and frequency response of the drivers need to be taken into account here. We must also look at the diffraction properties and try to minimize or eliminate any standing waves.
Finally the line: Have you decided whether you want to build a steel stand out of rectangular section steel (like the System IV) or a wooden stand? If you build a steel stand you won't easily be able to taper it but this could be mitigated by the correct stuffing. Once you've made that choice and assuming we don't get shot down by our resident TL experts, we could ask them for their views on the best line dimensions for the three units - designing it as if it were a normal TL. One thing guys: I'm not familair with the TBs. Are three of them suitable for a TL? If not, we have to re-think the basics.
I think that Monday might be pushing things a bit but who knows? I'll look forward to reading your response to this.
Steve
Thank you for your willingness to help. Let me first point out that I'm a cabinetmaker by trade and I'm pretty computer illiterate. I have some friends that have offered to help me download and run these programs. (I don't yet know how even to use Excel)
I do however, have a pretty complete woodworking shop, and once a working drawing is made, it would only be a matter of hours before I could have a couple boxes made.
Your last question: "Are three of them suitable for a TL? "
Is one I can't answer, but why not try?
The Tweeter:http://www.d-s-t.com/vifa/data/d26tg-35-06e.htm
The TB's: http://www.nuera-acoustic.ca/products/datasheets/w3-871s.jpg
Distances: Tweet to top TB 1/4", then 1/4" to next TB, then 1/2 to bottom TB
My listening room is 14" X 28' and the speaker to listener triangle is 9'.
The baffle front before any bevel is 6" and I have some full 1" black walnut for the sides, that can be as wide as 10". I'm planning to build the bases out of MDF, but I have all sizes of plywoods and boards onhand, even some 8/4" walnut.
I'll build this any size that seems appropriate, and I'll try to get a friend over with a digital camera. An appointment for Monday night be rushing, but goals are good. :^)
Im off to talk to an EE/Programmer friend....Thanks again.
I do however, have a pretty complete woodworking shop, and once a working drawing is made, it would only be a matter of hours before I could have a couple boxes made.
Your last question: "Are three of them suitable for a TL? "
Is one I can't answer, but why not try?
The Tweeter:http://www.d-s-t.com/vifa/data/d26tg-35-06e.htm
The TB's: http://www.nuera-acoustic.ca/products/datasheets/w3-871s.jpg
Distances: Tweet to top TB 1/4", then 1/4" to next TB, then 1/2 to bottom TB
My listening room is 14" X 28' and the speaker to listener triangle is 9'.
The baffle front before any bevel is 6" and I have some full 1" black walnut for the sides, that can be as wide as 10". I'm planning to build the bases out of MDF, but I have all sizes of plywoods and boards onhand, even some 8/4" walnut.
I'll build this any size that seems appropriate, and I'll try to get a friend over with a digital camera. An appointment for Monday night be rushing, but goals are good. :^)
Im off to talk to an EE/Programmer friend....Thanks again.
BAM said:
Looks like everyone is ignoring you! BAM and I share this experience, my friend has the AM-6. There is evidence of Bose's Pressure wave transducing technology. Looking at a pic. of the cross-section of the module there are two paths from which the rear wave may travel. One short one goes left then curves (dead-end) and another longer one which exits at the port. They may also 'get away' with the shorter length because of their Dynamic Equalization. The bass is there though, and surprisingly good, but the again. for the 692$ that my friend paid for his Bose I could have some sweet TL towers that I built myself. Open baffle...mmm...
Bose(o) said:
Is there a chamber that two lines come off (one shorter and closed, the other longer and open)?
If so, what are the:
1. lengths of each line
2. diameter of each line if round or depth/width if not
3. diameter of the port if it's different to the line
4. dimensions of chamber if there is a chamber
Also, how many of the 5.25" drivers are there?
It could be that, effectively, the driver chamber is placed 1/3 of the way down a 1/4 wave line, in which case we'd start to know where we are.
Steve
7V:
BAM and I, among others, were both in a thread where various Bose configurations were explored. I really feel guilty not responding to Bolivar-his reference reay helped to clear things up.
By the way, I do believe the aughor of Bolivar's link forgot something-I suspect that the system is far more efficient than he thinks. He forgot to account for the fact that if you use only voice coil of a dual voice coil subwoofer, (which he had to do to get a high enough Qts), your sensitivity will go down-either 6 dB or 3 dB, I am not sure which.
Bose apparently also has a system where a line the entire waveength of the bass cutoff frequency is employed. It is meant for cars, but I imagine it can be used elsewhere. If the link to the patent is not in the thread I am referring you to, let me know-I think I can relocate the patent.
Here is the thread in question:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=9501&highlight=cannon
BAM said:
How does 0.5 inch each way-1 inch peak to peak- sound for excursion in a 5 inch speaker?
Check out TC Sounds. They are on OEM, (Original Equipment Manufacturer), supplier. That means they only sell in quantity to companies.
Apparently, they occasionally sell in lots to retailers. However, if you call or Email them, they might telll you which company they make 5 inchers for-OEM suppliers frequently do that.
Give the page a chance to load.
http://www.tcsounds.com/chart.html
Yup, the automobile system was made for the Mazda RX-7, can't wait to hear the RX-8s sound system...perhaps it will be using the same technologies.
This is what I mean:
The AM-10 has two drivers, the AM-15 has three drivers. And boys, that's about all that I know.
This is what I mean:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The AM-10 has two drivers, the AM-15 has three drivers. And boys, that's about all that I know.
quote:
"take a look at this site : www.theloudspeakerkit.com
They have a project (actually a kit) named TL6 that uses 2 P17WJ from Vifa in a TL.
Since I have 4 of these woofers I wanted to build one, but I have no drawing sheets, so I should make a sort of reverse-engineering from the photos in the mounting instructions.
Since they sell a kit I don't think they will be willing to give anyone drawings for the enclosure (unless you purchase the kit without cabinet of course)... that's a pity."
Hi Andypairo,
The TL6 looks like a direct copy of the Seas Thor TL without the build quality. Have a look at the cabinet drawings here http://www.seas.no/thor.htm The TL6 from 'The Loudspeaker Kit' is being sold for $1200.00 AUS (or around $960.00 USD). You have the bass drivers already, although you can purchase them for about $35 each at PartsExpress and the tweeter for about $20 each. I think their TL6 kit is expensive when you consider they come in raw mdf and you have to apply the finish to the enclosures!
Cheers,
[PS] I lived and worked in Milano (and Varese) back in the early 80's. I really enjoyed my stay and the folks were very friendly and helpful. How are things there these days?
"take a look at this site : www.theloudspeakerkit.com
They have a project (actually a kit) named TL6 that uses 2 P17WJ from Vifa in a TL.
Since I have 4 of these woofers I wanted to build one, but I have no drawing sheets, so I should make a sort of reverse-engineering from the photos in the mounting instructions.
Since they sell a kit I don't think they will be willing to give anyone drawings for the enclosure (unless you purchase the kit without cabinet of course)... that's a pity."
Hi Andypairo,
The TL6 looks like a direct copy of the Seas Thor TL without the build quality. Have a look at the cabinet drawings here http://www.seas.no/thor.htm The TL6 from 'The Loudspeaker Kit' is being sold for $1200.00 AUS (or around $960.00 USD). You have the bass drivers already, although you can purchase them for about $35 each at PartsExpress and the tweeter for about $20 each. I think their TL6 kit is expensive when you consider they come in raw mdf and you have to apply the finish to the enclosures!
Cheers,
[PS] I lived and worked in Milano (and Varese) back in the early 80's. I really enjoyed my stay and the folks were very friendly and helpful. How are things there these days?
phibes said:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Steve's Sub
dave
Hi Dave-
I might thank you for posting that pic.... Mike, OTOH is prolly going to try and get you back. I was rather hoping you'd post pics of the Gainclone cases that I'm sending you, in the trading post.
That's a photo of a corner of my basement where I now have crowded the poker room with a workstation and proto speakers. My poker buddies don't complain much, as the background music has improved enormously.
As for the 871 TLs...one proto is being used as the left monitor speaker (behind Mike) coupled with the two elf 1.5's on the right. The TB center channel above the monitor is completely unnecessary and actually a joke. The stereo imaging nearfield is so good, I've had ppl tell me it (the center) should be turned down when its not on. I've posted dimensions of this speaker elsewhere.
Essentially it's a box sized to the volume of 4 TB's sealed, with a 27" tapered TL in the base. I've played with a lot of 871's and found their weakness (aside from bass) is SPLs. Four is needed for HT fronts, but for a budget speaker any configuration is tough to beat $4$. You'll notice I'm using a horn as a supertweet, so the highs aren't lost as you stand up. (Still searching for the right tweeter.)
BTW, on top of the center speaker is the "Esquire" ala Rabbitz (the P13-D27 from the "reference" thread) in quilted bubinga and beside that is the Audax MTM front that i've got so much invested 5.1 is a lot of passive xovers. I'll finish them with curved sides and black-stained fiddleback anagre. At the moment they're bi-amped and sound great.
I might thank you for posting that pic.... Mike, OTOH is prolly going to try and get you back. I was rather hoping you'd post pics of the Gainclone cases that I'm sending you, in the trading post.
That's a photo of a corner of my basement where I now have crowded the poker room with a workstation and proto speakers. My poker buddies don't complain much, as the background music has improved enormously.
As for the 871 TLs...one proto is being used as the left monitor speaker (behind Mike) coupled with the two elf 1.5's on the right. The TB center channel above the monitor is completely unnecessary and actually a joke. The stereo imaging nearfield is so good, I've had ppl tell me it (the center) should be turned down when its not on. I've posted dimensions of this speaker elsewhere.
Essentially it's a box sized to the volume of 4 TB's sealed, with a 27" tapered TL in the base. I've played with a lot of 871's and found their weakness (aside from bass) is SPLs. Four is needed for HT fronts, but for a budget speaker any configuration is tough to beat $4$. You'll notice I'm using a horn as a supertweet, so the highs aren't lost as you stand up. (Still searching for the right tweeter.)
BTW, on top of the center speaker is the "Esquire" ala Rabbitz (the P13-D27 from the "reference" thread) in quilted bubinga and beside that is the Audax MTM front that i've got so much invested 5.1 is a lot of passive xovers. I'll finish them with curved sides and black-stained fiddleback anagre. At the moment they're bi-amped and sound great.
phibes said:
I also noticed that but hope they didn't just copy.
Here in Italy things go quite well, except for a nominal inflation of 2.7% or so and a real one much higher...
In the meantime I went ahead with my speakers, the enclosure is almost done (finishing will be made after some tests..)
Cheers
Andrea
x. onasis said:
With my limited budget, I don't plan on getting any more than 2 channels at this time. Once I am more comfortable with speakers, I might try my hand at GC amps in the future. I might eventually go for a a 5.1 or 6.1 amp once I get the hang of it.
If you remember the post you published the dimensions, let me know. I might be interested to take a look at it though.
x. onasis said:
I've built two of John's designs (the last two designs actually) and have also found that SPL isn't that great. I'm running them fullrange with BSC at this time and I am really impressed at how they sound.
I might keep two of them as computer speakers but I am definitely looking as building something else with this TB's. I've been dreaming for quite a while to build a four 871. This design seems interesting. Would you mind sharing it with me and the others in this forum the dimension of this enclosure ? Do you have a diagram for this enclosure ?
Are you using any king of xover or BSC in this enclosure ?
fireman said:For some reason, I knew you would provide such an answer.
You need one driver on the front for every driver on the back... with 4 drivers you could consider a little MTM on the front, and run FR on the back... the MTM could be done conventionally or just adding a helper at the top.
The little ApexJr T or similar would be suitable here (he may be sold out -- he no longer has them listed) attached is a picture of a stock one & a tweaked one -- overall diameter is 34mm
dave
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