Thanks for the info Simon. I noticed that the sensitivity of that speaker is 5.5 db less than the JBL @ 1W/ 1m.
Fs for the JBL is 18.5 Hz higher (40 Hz for the 2225).
The price is right for sure, but what about replacement parts if I
fry one of the woofers ? Are re-cone kits available ?
The surround on those speakers appears to be the foam type common on many home stereo components. I think the accordion style surrounds on the JBL's should hold up much better over time.
One other notable difference in the specs. Xmax for the JBL's is only 5 mm. The Ascendant Audio speaker is a whopping 18 mm - 13 mm (or about 1/2 ") bigger.
Guess I'm a little leary about putting anything other than a JBL driver in the VOTT cabinets. I've listened to JBL's in many different applications - most notably the 2226's in the SR series -
and they are tough and durable speakers. They absoultely rip and you can rely on them when you push them hard. Though the 2226's are a little different, they share a similar architechture w/ the 2225's. They handle a little more power - 600 watts (2226) vs. 400 watts (2225), but many people say the 2225's are a little "warmer" sounding.
I wish the Fs of the 2225's was as low as the Ascendant Audio's but not sure if I want to give up all the JBL's good points just to go 18.5 Hz lower. You definitely make me think tho.........
Guy
Fs for the JBL is 18.5 Hz higher (40 Hz for the 2225).
The price is right for sure, but what about replacement parts if I
fry one of the woofers ? Are re-cone kits available ?
The surround on those speakers appears to be the foam type common on many home stereo components. I think the accordion style surrounds on the JBL's should hold up much better over time.
One other notable difference in the specs. Xmax for the JBL's is only 5 mm. The Ascendant Audio speaker is a whopping 18 mm - 13 mm (or about 1/2 ") bigger.
Guess I'm a little leary about putting anything other than a JBL driver in the VOTT cabinets. I've listened to JBL's in many different applications - most notably the 2226's in the SR series -
and they are tough and durable speakers. They absoultely rip and you can rely on them when you push them hard. Though the 2226's are a little different, they share a similar architechture w/ the 2225's. They handle a little more power - 600 watts (2226) vs. 400 watts (2225), but many people say the 2225's are a little "warmer" sounding.
I wish the Fs of the 2225's was as low as the Ascendant Audio's but not sure if I want to give up all the JBL's good points just to go 18.5 Hz lower. You definitely make me think tho.........
Guy
Yeah I know that it sounds a bit hardcore to put "new generation low efficiency" drivers in a vintage cabinet. It's just that you have so much space to spare. I feel like you're wasting it if you end up just cutting it off or filling it up with sand. The drivers I recommend love to breathe.
You could seal the cabinet perfectly, then put a thick plywood sheet that will brace the cabinet and also separate the cabinet in a very big lower part and a small higher part, put two JBL in the higher part of the cabinet in their small chamber, and use two Atlas 15 for low bass in the big sealed lower part. You could even port the lower part, but that is probably even more hardcore for you!
You could seal the cabinet perfectly, then put a thick plywood sheet that will brace the cabinet and also separate the cabinet in a very big lower part and a small higher part, put two JBL in the higher part of the cabinet in their small chamber, and use two Atlas 15 for low bass in the big sealed lower part. You could even port the lower part, but that is probably even more hardcore for you!
Guy,
As you know, I'm a fellow 210 owner. I think I have to stick on the "don't mess with the cabinets" side of things. If the JBL's want a smaller box, then put in a filler piece to reduce the volume. If for whatever reason you need more oomph, then use a separate cabinet for your big subs. Lord knows 8 JBL woofers barely have enough bass.
DON'T cut the cabinets. The Altec gods are watching you and they're not into you messing with their work. If you have an accident while altering them, don't say you haven't been warned.
Your friendly Altec commissar,
Cal
As you know, I'm a fellow 210 owner. I think I have to stick on the "don't mess with the cabinets" side of things. If the JBL's want a smaller box, then put in a filler piece to reduce the volume. If for whatever reason you need more oomph, then use a separate cabinet for your big subs. Lord knows 8 JBL woofers barely have enough bass.
DON'T cut the cabinets. The Altec gods are watching you and they're not into you messing with their work. If you have an accident while altering them, don't say you haven't been warned.
Your friendly Altec commissar,
Cal
Can you say "Hemi"..........
I think the Jeep needs a Hemi, don't you?
Did you see the prototype Jeep "Hurricane" (I think it was called) w/ TWO HEMI engines in it ? It had the hood and cowl section of a Jeep Liberty grafted onto it.
4WD and 4 wheel steer.
Hey Cal:
you're right, I don't think I can cut up that cabinet. It would be painfull..... I can block off 9 cubic feet and you wouldn't even know it.
Turn it up!
Guy
I think the Jeep needs a Hemi, don't you?
Did you see the prototype Jeep "Hurricane" (I think it was called) w/ TWO HEMI engines in it ? It had the hood and cowl section of a Jeep Liberty grafted onto it.
4WD and 4 wheel steer.
Hey Cal:
you're right, I don't think I can cut up that cabinet. It would be painfull..... I can block off 9 cubic feet and you wouldn't even know it.
Turn it up!
Guy
Did someone say.......
Did someone say "Hardcore" ???
Did someone say "Hardcore" ???
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I wouldn't alter the cabs either. There is a good chance that they were designed specifically for the JBL's so putting in some speakers with total different parameters wouldn't be the best choice.
I don't know where you stand with your knowledge, so maybe you already know what's below.
You could just add 1 or 2 speakers to do the real sub and let the rest be handled by your JBL´s for use at home. At parties I wouldn´t really bother using the real subs too. This way it would be fairly cheap and easy.
The JBL's won't go very low but due to the hornloading they will go loud. If you put a cab on it's side you make the virtual mouth area and length larger so that's why you'll get more lows.
But at home you really want more low end than the JBL´s can give, it really gives an extra dimension to the sound.
Some PA speakers are capable but always at the cost of efficiency or cab size. I use my PA at home as well, but it was designed to be in performance somewhere in between Hifi and PA.
Today there are a lot PA speakers out there with an f3 around 30 hz. To go lower then that at PA-levels you'll need really big horns.
The Atlas 15's seem most suited for electronically corrected closed box or big bassreflex enclosures. But you would need 4 times more power to get them even with the JBl's or the double with double the power.
Cheers
I don't know where you stand with your knowledge, so maybe you already know what's below.
You could just add 1 or 2 speakers to do the real sub and let the rest be handled by your JBL´s for use at home. At parties I wouldn´t really bother using the real subs too. This way it would be fairly cheap and easy.
The JBL's won't go very low but due to the hornloading they will go loud. If you put a cab on it's side you make the virtual mouth area and length larger so that's why you'll get more lows.
But at home you really want more low end than the JBL´s can give, it really gives an extra dimension to the sound.
Some PA speakers are capable but always at the cost of efficiency or cab size. I use my PA at home as well, but it was designed to be in performance somewhere in between Hifi and PA.
Today there are a lot PA speakers out there with an f3 around 30 hz. To go lower then that at PA-levels you'll need really big horns.
The Atlas 15's seem most suited for electronically corrected closed box or big bassreflex enclosures. But you would need 4 times more power to get them even with the JBl's or the double with double the power.
Cheers
hey Rad
I think you're right. I was kind of hoping NOT to buy a 1000 watt amp. This way I can still use fairly low power and it should blast. Right now I'm only running 50 w/ ch. through them w/ an Alesis amp and it's pretty darn loud. Got an old modified Adcom amp that puts out 430 w/ ch. into 4 ohms for when the JBL's go into the VOTT's. That should be plenty of horsepower for them.
Guy
I think you're right. I was kind of hoping NOT to buy a 1000 watt amp. This way I can still use fairly low power and it should blast. Right now I'm only running 50 w/ ch. through them w/ an Alesis amp and it's pretty darn loud. Got an old modified Adcom amp that puts out 430 w/ ch. into 4 ohms for when the JBL's go into the VOTT's. That should be plenty of horsepower for them.
Guy
how lame.........
Ya know, I just realized.......... both those amps are lame. Well, maybe not the Alesis......... it seems like it would make a great amp for a pair of 2441's or 2446's. Maybe some TAD 4001's?
Man, have I been out of the music world for too long.
Got to stop spending money on jet skis........
How much are 3 new Crown Macro-Tech's gonna cost me?
Argh.............
Guy
Ya know, I just realized.......... both those amps are lame. Well, maybe not the Alesis......... it seems like it would make a great amp for a pair of 2441's or 2446's. Maybe some TAD 4001's?
Man, have I been out of the music world for too long.
Got to stop spending money on jet skis........
How much are 3 new Crown Macro-Tech's gonna cost me?
Argh.............
Guy
Re: how lame.........
50W/ch on a 114dB/W speaker? Good greif, are you using these as a PA rig? If it's for home you need a tiny fraction of that unless you want hearing damage. My full horn loaded rig was circa 104dB and 6W was usually too loud in very large living room. Remember those Altecs were designed to fill a theatre.RacerXtreme said:
Borrow some and try them first; Crowns generally sound dire on high eff domestic systems.
No worries Guy, just checking.RacerXtreme said:
If the rig is going to do dual duty, and you have the $, get some high power amps for PA duty, and something that'll sound better in the <5W region for home use. Even the direct radiators won't need that much power at home. It'll sound a lot better and remove that bleeding-ears-drive-you-out-of-the-room characteristic that I've heard with every PA amp powered domestic horn rig.
The Crowns are often cheap as dirt on ebay.
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