I just ordered a 300 watt BASH amp from Parts Express and am planning on using two subs in a ported push-push configuration to mate with my Harvey's using FE126e drivers.
I am looking at Dayton Reference Series 8" or 10" drivers and am wondering if people have any better suggestions than that driver in a similar price range (less than $60 per driver). I would like the driver response to be close to 20Hz. Enclosure size is flexible and I prefer good bass to just lots of it. I also have neighbors so I can not get too crazy, though I live in a house so it is nothing restrictive like an apartment or anything.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Ed
I am looking at Dayton Reference Series 8" or 10" drivers and am wondering if people have any better suggestions than that driver in a similar price range (less than $60 per driver). I would like the driver response to be close to 20Hz. Enclosure size is flexible and I prefer good bass to just lots of it. I also have neighbors so I can not get too crazy, though I live in a house so it is nothing restrictive like an apartment or anything.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Ed
Apex JR has a nice 12" subwoofer driver that looks nice, and the
price is right. Try two in an isobarick (mouth to mouth) and it
will cut the vas in half.
http://www.apexjr.com/speakerstuff.html
price is right. Try two in an isobarick (mouth to mouth) and it
will cut the vas in half.
http://www.apexjr.com/speakerstuff.html
Planet-ten sold me on the push-push idea so that is the route I am going to go. I am planning on running both woofers off the same amp, unless that is not possible, but from what I understand when I do that it will halve the ohms of the drivers, so two 8ohm drivers would drop down to 4ohms which is ok, but 4ohm drivers would drop to 2ohms which is bad. The Apex-Jr woofers are four ohms so I was thinking that an 8ohm driver is a better choice.
I may be totally wrong, I am quite often, and if so then I can change what my plans are and any help is appreciated.
On a side note do you guys think it is a bad idea to use regular woofers as sub woofers?
I may be totally wrong, I am quite often, and if so then I can change what my plans are and any help is appreciated.
On a side note do you guys think it is a bad idea to use regular woofers as sub woofers?
germpod said:
(rant hat on) The two terms seem interchangeable these days. When I was young a subwoofer had an Fs of 20 Hz or below. Now it just seems to mean "fairly long throw with a fat surround" bass driver. For example, there are 6.5" mid bass drivers with a lower Fs than a 15" PA driver called a subwoofer. You figure it out. (rant hat off)
No it's not a bad idea. It's all in what you are looking for. Every driver has it's plus' and minus'
germpod said:
I saw the ApexJr 12s, the 4 ohms, and your budget and immediately thot push-push push-pull isobarik woofer... series/parallel wiring brings you to 4 ohms and you can put all 4 woofs in a 2.5 ft^3 box. The advantages of push-push for newtonian cancellation and push-pull to reduce IM distortion.
They only downside is that the back of 2 of the woofers face out (could be hidden if you build a donut box....) and a bit tricker box detailing.
dave
Thanks a lot everybody.
Planet-Ten are you describing two drivers facing in and two out, or three facing out and one in? There were three pushes stated and one pull, but then you mention two drivers with the back sticking out which I thought would be the pull drivers.
I am quite excited that the Apex-Jr. twelves should work and this new box design sounds very interesting and am looking forward to having a better mental picture to work with.
Drivers with their back side out is no problem, my wife is very understanding and likes to listen to good sounding music with me. You can force a person compromise on a hobby for home asthetics, withan reason.
Planet-Ten are you describing two drivers facing in and two out, or three facing out and one in? There were three pushes stated and one pull, but then you mention two drivers with the back sticking out which I thought would be the pull drivers.
I am quite excited that the Apex-Jr. twelves should work and this new box design sounds very interesting and am looking forward to having a better mental picture to work with.
Drivers with their back side out is no problem, my wife is very understanding and likes to listen to good sounding music with me. You can force a person compromise on a hobby for home asthetics, withan reason.
I did some checking and now understand what you were saying. Basicly four drivers kind of acting as two in a way, with lower distortion and halving the Vas (next I have to find out what Vas does and why halving it is good). Two facing out with two directly in front of them face to face, so two outside of the enclosure.
I am likely going to go this route since the drivers are cheap eneough and it will be fun to do some experimenting and compare and contrasting with different enclosures and driver combinations.
I am likely going to go this route since the drivers are cheap eneough and it will be fun to do some experimenting and compare and contrasting with different enclosures and driver combinations.
Push-push push-pull isobariks
make 2 isobarik push-pull drivers (ie 2 drivers face-to-face). This reduces IM distortion causes by driver motor asymetry. Isobarik allows you to put 2 drivers into half the volume required by 1 (because the Vas is half). Now load these 2 "drivers" into a box push-push to actively cancel newtonian energy that would otherwise load into the box.
The net volume of the box is the same as if you were only using 1 driver. You have reduced IM distortion & you have reduced box distortion/coloration.
dave
PS: attached is a quick and nasty SketchUp of a torus topology box so that you wouldn't have to look at the backs of the woofers -- it should be up off the floor and you can add a top to make it totally dissapear (also spaced off the actual box) -- the only clue that your coffe table was a woofer would be the wires leading into it.
make 2 isobarik push-pull drivers (ie 2 drivers face-to-face). This reduces IM distortion causes by driver motor asymetry. Isobarik allows you to put 2 drivers into half the volume required by 1 (because the Vas is half). Now load these 2 "drivers" into a box push-push to actively cancel newtonian energy that would otherwise load into the box.
The net volume of the box is the same as if you were only using 1 driver. You have reduced IM distortion & you have reduced box distortion/coloration.
dave
PS: attached is a quick and nasty SketchUp of a torus topology box so that you wouldn't have to look at the backs of the woofers -- it should be up off the floor and you can add a top to make it totally dissapear (also spaced off the actual box) -- the only clue that your coffe table was a woofer would be the wires leading into it.
Attachments
Re: Push-push push-pull isobariks
Hi Dave,
For the isobarik-ally challenged amongst us, can you spell out the wiring connections between the 4 drivers and the amp? For simplicity, let's call them A-B-C-D moving from L to R of your drawing. A+ and A- denote the terminals of the leftmost driver. Now, what connects to what?
Thanx.
Doug
planet10 said:
Hi Dave,
For the isobarik-ally challenged amongst us, can you spell out the wiring connections between the 4 drivers and the amp? For simplicity, let's call them A-B-C-D moving from L to R of your drawing. A+ and A- denote the terminals of the leftmost driver. Now, what connects to what?
Thanx.
Doug
Re: Re: Push-push push-pull isobariks
wire the drivers in series/parallel. The final impedance of the four drivers is the same as one driver.
The box volume is the same as one driver.
The cone area is the same as for two drivers giving +3db of bass sensitivity. The power handling is as for four drivers. This would all suit a sealed enclosure IF THE DRIVER Q is suitable.
amplifier + to T+
amplifier - to T-
T+ to A+
T+ to B-
T- to C+
T- to D-
A- to D+
B+ to C-
note that B and C are wired out of phase.
A and D are wired in phase.
A and D are in series.
B and C are in series.
If each driver were 100W into 8ohms then the combination will be 400W into 8ohms.
Hi,Brisso57 said:
wire the drivers in series/parallel. The final impedance of the four drivers is the same as one driver.
The box volume is the same as one driver.
The cone area is the same as for two drivers giving +3db of bass sensitivity. The power handling is as for four drivers. This would all suit a sealed enclosure IF THE DRIVER Q is suitable.
amplifier + to T+
amplifier - to T-
T+ to A+
T+ to B-
T- to C+
T- to D-
A- to D+
B+ to C-
note that B and C are wired out of phase.
A and D are wired in phase.
A and D are in series.
B and C are in series.
If each driver were 100W into 8ohms then the combination will be 400W into 8ohms.
OK, so in the toroidal quad driver isobarik design, the sound exits from the rear of the 2 inner drivers.
Necessarily the back waves get tangled in the baskets, so it would seem that some woofers would be more or less suitable for this application.
Bearing in mind that 4 woofers are required, what more inexpensive woofers do people think would be best suited for the purpose?
Open type baskets would be better, but obviously not at the expense of a too-flimsy basket.
What can anyone suggest in say either a 6.5" or an 8" woofer?
cheers
Doug
Necessarily the back waves get tangled in the baskets, so it would seem that some woofers would be more or less suitable for this application.
Bearing in mind that 4 woofers are required, what more inexpensive woofers do people think would be best suited for the purpose?
Open type baskets would be better, but obviously not at the expense of a too-flimsy basket.
What can anyone suggest in say either a 6.5" or an 8" woofer?
cheers
Doug
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