Andre Visser said:
Thanks for the information Jan.
I find the result a bit too good to be true because that would imply that a perfect A/D converter, a perfect D/A converter and a perfect output stage already exist, I would kill to get my hands on that.
André
Not perfect. But with flaws below the audibility threshold. That's quite a difference.
Jan Didden
Perfect......... below audibility threshold...., sounds pretty close to perfect to me.
I've listened to a lot of CD Players from cheap to quite expensive and never found two that sounded the same, also the best that I've heard wasn't sounding "perfect" to me. I believe we still need to do some homework to get to perfect.
André
I've listened to a lot of CD Players from cheap to quite expensive and never found two that sounded the same, also the best that I've heard wasn't sounding "perfect" to me. I believe we still need to do some homework to get to perfect.
André
janneman said:
Seeing your negative attitude makes me a bit sad actually
. I AM done soldering.. Working on the chassis now.Judging by the designers skills (that doesn't seem to have many equals in the audio world) and the measured performance I do believe that the amp will turn out to be transparent up to it's limit with a reasonable load.
Bruno Putzeys is the name of the designer and ExtremA the name of the amp. I think it's the record holder when it comes to low distortion for power amps.
I believe that it will be transparent I do not know that it will be transparent. I will know after putting the amp to test.. either it is or it's not. According to my earlier experiences and understandings I'd say the chances are good the amp will turn out to be perfect.
I'll get back with measured performance and a report on bypass listening test later on.
/Peter
janneman said:
It would depend on how the set up is made, who is listening and the performance of the various components in the chains an so on. Also program material.
LTS has done many such tests and most combinations of AD and DA links colors the signal audibly.
Oh, one thing that makes me react in one of those tests that you bring up (which I allready did read about and discussed on another forum) is the lack of relevant information about the gear but they use "expensive" as that would be a guarantee for good audio performance.. which it obviously is not.
/Peter
SY said:
Yes, The clicks can be learned quite fast and saying yes but I'm ignoring them still unblinds the test.
I actually pointed this out to E Brad Meyer at a BAS meeting and demonstrated 6 or 8 correct guesses in a row without actually listening to the source matierial. Come to think of it though, even a difference in the mechanical relay noise due to how it was built could be learned.
Another factor I find in DBT is varying degrees of listener fatigue related to the choice of sources. I spent an entire afternoon evaluating John Dennison's mods on a JC-80 on the same two minutes of Ricky Lee Jones doing 'Easy Money'. Imagine SY ... Eine, Swie, Drie, Fier....Computer Welt....
john curl said:Stay from my JC80 and stick to IC's!
Or, 'Mods? We don't need no stinkin' MODs! You actually heard a difference in an ABX double blind test, or did you use something weaker, and therefore still 'unproven' to the truly objective?
No, no we were at John's place. Do you think I could afford a JC-80 in 1981? IIRC there was ample beer at lunch before we started, so the results were objectively inconclusive.
@ Janneman,
I had to correct the information for Theile´s paper, co-author was not Gerd Steinke, but W. Link:
G.Theile, W.Link, HD-Audio Tonmeistertagung 1998:
http://www.hauptmikrofon.de/theile/HD-Audio_TMT1998_.PDF
The diploma thesis from detmold:
Blech, Dominik; Yang, Min-CHi DVD-Audio versus SACD: Perceptual Discrimination of Digital Audio Coding Formats
(Convention Paper in english language;AES electronic library)
http://old.hfm-detmold.de/eti/projekte/diplomarbeiten/2004/dsdpcm/ein.htm (website version in german language)
Fremer reported about his double blind attempt:
http://www.stereophile.com/features/113/index6.html
The german audio magazin stereoplay conducted in 1990 two double blind tests, the first one focussed on the difference made by AD/DA-Conversion, the second one regarding additional factors introduced after transfer to an actual CD and replayed from a cd-player.
Stereoplay, `Der Einfluß des AD/DA-Wandlers auf den Klang´, Heft 05/1990
And another webarchive link to a now defunct swedish website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040223234411/www.jrsaudio.se/dbtoncdplayers.htm
Jakob
I had to correct the information for Theile´s paper, co-author was not Gerd Steinke, but W. Link:
G.Theile, W.Link, HD-Audio Tonmeistertagung 1998:
http://www.hauptmikrofon.de/theile/HD-Audio_TMT1998_.PDF
The diploma thesis from detmold:
Blech, Dominik; Yang, Min-CHi DVD-Audio versus SACD: Perceptual Discrimination of Digital Audio Coding Formats
(Convention Paper in english language;AES electronic library)
http://old.hfm-detmold.de/eti/projekte/diplomarbeiten/2004/dsdpcm/ein.htm (website version in german language)
Fremer reported about his double blind attempt:
http://www.stereophile.com/features/113/index6.html
The german audio magazin stereoplay conducted in 1990 two double blind tests, the first one focussed on the difference made by AD/DA-Conversion, the second one regarding additional factors introduced after transfer to an actual CD and replayed from a cd-player.
Stereoplay, `Der Einfluß des AD/DA-Wandlers auf den Klang´, Heft 05/1990
And another webarchive link to a now defunct swedish website:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040223234411/www.jrsaudio.se/dbtoncdplayers.htm
Jakob
Funny...just a few days ago I adjusted my speaker xo and managed to get a incredible smooth and soft sound free of any artefacts, along with a tighter bass
Now some days later only the tighter bass remains along with the freedom from artefact...but the softness has gone and is replaced by very clear and clean sound
Might that be brain adjustment...seems that the hearing is very sensitive to any kind of short term changes, where as the brain adjustment works slower and only over time adjusts, and "falls back" to "its normal reference"...whatever that might be
Now some days later only the tighter bass remains along with the freedom from artefact...but the softness has gone and is replaced by very clear and clean sound
Might that be brain adjustment...seems that the hearing is very sensitive to any kind of short term changes, where as the brain adjustment works slower and only over time adjusts, and "falls back" to "its normal reference"...whatever that might be
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