please tell me the rest of the gear/electronics used in the listening session
if you could listen to those speakers at home, it might sound completely different from what you heard in the shop
maybe you actually won't be disappointed ... but you might
even so, you cannot duplicate those speakers ... no way that is possible
Hi i use Fountek NeoCD3.5H, which is a little different to their other ribbons being waveguide loaded. Their Fs is around 1khz, judging by their roll off, but i certainly wouldn't use them that low. Some published measures show that they have a cavity resonance at about 2khz, and they recommend crossing at 3khz or higher. I would expect to have similar caveats with their other offerings, i.e. Cross at least an octave higher.
They used this amp and some high end dac i can't even remember.
Yamaha
Of course i can't replicate the speakers, buy you probably can the soundstage. At least something similar should be achievable if i find another build using an amt tweeter.
That looks interesting even though thats not an amt tweeter. What else are you using with that tweeter?
One thing I have noticed with ribbon tweeters is that they have a very small xmax vs dome and AMT tweeters, so be conservative when choosing the crossover point - never below 5K / 12db for the smaller ones.
Im not quite sure what this means since I'm not very experienced. Therefor i was hoping someone could recommend a build with an AMT tweeter. But there seems to be no such thing.
I guess ill have to hunt for used elacs or settle with something else thats more commonly used!
What am I using it with, well i have used it with visaton AL130 but the midbass doesn't really reach high enough without sacrifices, so I'm not using it with anything permanently as yet.
I did notice you mentioned ribbon whilst meaning AMT, but i draw parallels between the two driver types. Small diaphragms are going to be limited in their ability to play low. Id expect both types to have similar vertical dispersion (never played with an AMT however)
I don't think ive ever seen xmax quoted for a ribbon but id GUESS it was lower than a dome (like Torr guesses). In any case, if you can see a tweeter moving trouble is likely to follow.
I did notice you mentioned ribbon whilst meaning AMT, but i draw parallels between the two driver types. Small diaphragms are going to be limited in their ability to play low. Id expect both types to have similar vertical dispersion (never played with an AMT however)
I don't think ive ever seen xmax quoted for a ribbon but id GUESS it was lower than a dome (like Torr guesses). In any case, if you can see a tweeter moving trouble is likely to follow.
That's basically a planar, but it has a resonance at 4kHz to deal with. It's likely a cavity resonance, but a simple notch kills it and it's really easy to hit 4.5kHz LR4 slope. I don't think the extension is there for 4kHz.
Elac, GoldenEars, Heil, Emotiva; all are using the AMT type kapton-etched diaphragm 'ribbon' in their designs.
for the OP-
Ribbons in the true sense are transformer based to keep the impedance at a happy level for amplifiers, due to it being a dead short as a thin film of metal is the 'voice coil'. These ribbons are usually suspended by the top and bottom ends of the element.
Planars usually involve a kapton/aluminum etched diaphragm that is suspended along its entire perimeter.
AMT's use a kapton/aluminum etched diaphragm that has been folded and is suspended along the left and right edges of the membrane.
Bending-Wave like a Manger driver. This is a thin membrane that is excited and freq modes are induced in the membrane which emanates into the room. Typically this involves your semi-standard round voice-coil attached to the film membrane.
I'm sure there are minor differences among some of these to be something a bit different in application, but in essence this list comprises the 'ribbons' you normally see used today.
Later,
Wolf
is that a new one
I only know Mivoc have a planarpure classiscal ribbon can be tricky in terms of crossover
unless fairly big, they are mostly better crossed highish
which present several other problems(midrange)
Planars might be better in that respect(bigger)
(maybe look at Gradient)
AMT have similar advantage because its basicly bigger(folded)
(have been very expencive, but that may change now)
but tricky design and assembling
so the cheap ones may be facing problems ... maybe
is that a new one
No its not a new model
Mind you, some would say the neo3.5 isn't a ribbon either...
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Several DIY speakers with ribbon tweeters have been described in the DIYAudio forums for years. I have a design which uses a Jordan JX92S mid-woofer and an Aurum Cantus G2si ribbon tweeter. The G2si is a true ribbon--strip of foil in the magnetic gap. About 10 years ago I released the mini-monitor version and two years later the MLTL enclosure version. These speakers have won DIY speaker contests and several builders have constructed clones of these designs during the past years.
You can search this forum for several threads on these designs. You can start here for details on the MLTL version:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/81634-jordan-ribbon-mltl.html
and my mini-monitor design package at:
http://documents.jordan-usa.com/JX92SG2siDesignPak.pdf
Jim
You can search this forum for several threads on these designs. You can start here for details on the MLTL version:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/81634-jordan-ribbon-mltl.html
and my mini-monitor design package at:
http://documents.jordan-usa.com/JX92SG2siDesignPak.pdf
Jim
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Hi teeth Wolf,
As a passive notch filter is in serie with the electric signal : does it supress transparency or good perception of sub harmonics for the ears with such ribbons or planar tweeters ?
I always asked myself if a notch in an ESL or Ribbon/planar can be a trap too for global quality in these area ?
If Yes, is an DSP notch (numeric notch before the driver in the signal himself) can be heard above the dig, even if very narrow (high slope) ?
At last it would say that a good ribon tweeter is one without peak in db curve (just natural dip) and a flat ohmic impedance (no perceptible Fs than the natural roll off in the low end. That why I asked if the last Aurum Cantus Aero striction tweeter showed as new technology which seems AMT with aluminium/pvc material are good ? Not measured by Zaph, any experienced here with them ? Can't just believe the Aurum Cantus measure as they are very very excelent on paper !
Why many say than Dome are better for tweeter ? Is just the way of the designer works ?
As a passive notch filter is in serie with the electric signal : does it supress transparency or good perception of sub harmonics for the ears with such ribbons or planar tweeters ?
I always asked myself if a notch in an ESL or Ribbon/planar can be a trap too for global quality in these area ?
If Yes, is an DSP notch (numeric notch before the driver in the signal himself) can be heard above the dig, even if very narrow (high slope) ?
At last it would say that a good ribon tweeter is one without peak in db curve (just natural dip) and a flat ohmic impedance (no perceptible Fs than the natural roll off in the low end. That why I asked if the last Aurum Cantus Aero striction tweeter showed as new technology which seems AMT with aluminium/pvc material are good ? Not measured by Zaph, any experienced here with them ? Can't just believe the Aurum Cantus measure as they are very very excelent on paper !
Why many say than Dome are better for tweeter ? Is just the way of the designer works ?
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not if its attached to the frame/chassis at its sides as well as ends
then its a planar, and usually cannot be corrugated, but remains plane
which I guess is why it got the name planar
ribbons are only attached at its ends
(but i guess it could be attached at its sides instead)
confusion have obviously also lead to the term true ribbon
I don't know why people continue to insist on calling planars ribbons
probably its the manufacturers who are well aware that the term ribbon sells better
Tinitus, its fine and my mistake, I just assumed from appearance that the MHT12 and Mivoc were AMT since the membrane appeared to me to be pleated. Although I'm clearly mistaken ��
The fountek neo3.5H is not a true ribbon (or so ive been told) since it is of laminated construction.
Suffice to say, to my brain, planars and ribbons are more similar than they are to AMTs. (isn't one isodynamic and the other orthodynamic? Maybe that explains the misuse of the term?)
The fountek neo3.5H is not a true ribbon (or so ive been told) since it is of laminated construction.
Suffice to say, to my brain, planars and ribbons are more similar than they are to AMTs. (isn't one isodynamic and the other orthodynamic? Maybe that explains the misuse of the term?)
planars usually have no impedance transformer
ribbons mostly need one
in that sense the AMT might appear like a hybrid
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