Re: The Interface Connection Is A Big Part of The Equation..........
The brightness blamed on silver is just more of the signal (detail) getting through. You should have to make some adjustments with speakers/crossovers to adjust for this. The speakers you own were voiced with copper and it's inherent drawbacks in mind. You will need to adjust.
This would be fine for interconnects but the Teflon will be to thick to wind resistors from. The insulation needs to be an enamel type.
Very interesting. I only use lead free solder so I can't comment on the combination of lead and silver.
If you can get silver "right" in your system it's a whole new ballgame.
This is winding one of a 1.8 ohm resistor. This shows the second wire removed and clear lacquer applied.
It's not as perfect as I hoped but it is a lot better than the last winding method. The second layer will go in the voids between the winds.
SimontY said:Hi,
Thanks for all the info Tom. I'm actually rather reluctant to put any silver in my system, nearly always it's sounded too bright. I guess the colouration it received doesn't suit my speakers and rest of my system. I realise the harshness is probably due to impure silver and/or using too thin conductors.
I think I'll try some resistors using copper instead for now, at least until I find somewhere that isn't a rip-off! I know people who work for a silverware company and can get things at trade price. Needless to say I asked about wire.. they don't do itNot that I think using sterling (92.5% iirc) silver could possibly be as good as pure copper.
Interesting, and to me that explains perfectly why silver gets such a bad press for sound quality!! (if poor silver is compared to good copper...) Ah, you didn't mean 93% purity did you...? Well, it could still be the reason.
Hmm, you mention Radioshack, I wish we had that in the UK! We used to have Tandy, which is similar, but I think that's all but gone now. I have to put up with comparatively costly Maplins and Farnell...
I like your new winding method Tom, sounds good.
I really need to get my x-overs offboard before doing this!
Thanks,
-Simon
The brightness blamed on silver is just more of the signal (detail) getting through. You should have to make some adjustments with speakers/crossovers to adjust for this. The speakers you own were voiced with copper and it's inherent drawbacks in mind. You will need to adjust.
GaryB said:
This would be fine for interconnects but the Teflon will be to thick to wind resistors from. The insulation needs to be an enamel type.
mrfeedback said:
Very interesting. I only use lead free solder so I can't comment on the combination of lead and silver.
If you can get silver "right" in your system it's a whole new ballgame.
This is winding one of a 1.8 ohm resistor. This shows the second wire removed and clear lacquer applied.
It's not as perfect as I hoped but it is a lot better than the last winding method. The second layer will go in the voids between the winds.
Attachments
It occurs to me that a lathe set on low speed w/ one of these spindles would make an ideal winding machine. Either hand-feed the wire slowly and carefully along its length or find some way to regulate moving the wire along, either way, you'll wind the whole thing in under a minute. (This is assuming you drop the 'between the wire' placement thing, but I don't understand why it's used).
Are you sure there's no shorts in the above spindle? A short, if I understand the principle correctly, would both lower the resistance very slightly and increase the inductance by making the direction the magnetic field is being pushed nonsymmetric. Without an LC meter or a very, very sensitive ohmeter, you wouldn't necessarily know it, either.
Are you sure there's no shorts in the above spindle? A short, if I understand the principle correctly, would both lower the resistance very slightly and increase the inductance by making the direction the magnetic field is being pushed nonsymmetric. Without an LC meter or a very, very sensitive ohmeter, you wouldn't necessarily know it, either.
Re: Re: The Interface Connection Is A Big Part of The Equation..........
Hmmm. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
If the brightness is due to more of the signal getting through, then how can you adjust for it except by letting less of the signal get through? And if you let less of the signal get through, then you're right back where you started, no?
se
tom1356 said:
Hmmm. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
If the brightness is due to more of the signal getting through, then how can you adjust for it except by letting less of the signal get through? And if you let less of the signal get through, then you're right back where you started, no?
se
Re: Re: Re: The Interface Connection Is A Big Part of The Equation..........
More of the signal meaning more detail due to a lower noise floor.
Adjust the level of the tweeter with a slightly larger silver resistor to reduce it's total output.
As a side note if you remove the distortion in the upper frequencies from the rest of the system you may end up prefering a slightly brighter high end.
Steve Eddy said:
More of the signal meaning more detail due to a lower noise floor.
Adjust the level of the tweeter with a slightly larger silver resistor to reduce it's total output.
As a side note if you remove the distortion in the upper frequencies from the rest of the system you may end up prefering a slightly brighter high end.
Hi,
Yeah...my thoughts exactly.
I'll tell you what happens though, it let's you hear what's wrong with the system.
Most people find CD too bright for their liking (some are) and (un)consciously try to compensate for it.
Maybe they should visit a recording studio or listen to a mastertape first?
With silver wire, the more you use it throughout the chain the more you'll like it.
Often it's like hearing recordings as they really sound for the first time, quite like the mastertape.
Cheers,
Yeah...my thoughts exactly.
I'll tell you what happens though, it let's you hear what's wrong with the system.
Most people find CD too bright for their liking (some are) and (un)consciously try to compensate for it.
Maybe they should visit a recording studio or listen to a mastertape first?
With silver wire, the more you use it throughout the chain the more you'll like it.
Often it's like hearing recordings as they really sound for the first time, quite like the mastertape.
Cheers,
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Interface Connection Is A Big Part of The Equation..........
If it's just a lowering of the noise floor, then you shouldn't have to adjust anything. Just enjoy the lower noise floor.
But how is the noise floor reduced by silver? At least in this context where you're using it to create a resistor. All else being equal, silver is a bit more conductive than copper so for a given gauge and length of wire, silver will have a lower noise floor by virtue of its lower resistance.
But in this case, you're using the silver to create a resistor which I assume will be the same value as any other resistor you'd use and since silver is more conductive than say copper, you'd have to use a greater length to get the same resistance and if your silver resistor has the same resistance, it will have the same noise as if you'd made the same resistor out of copper.
So where is the noise floor being reduced?
se
tom1356 said:
If it's just a lowering of the noise floor, then you shouldn't have to adjust anything. Just enjoy the lower noise floor.
But how is the noise floor reduced by silver? At least in this context where you're using it to create a resistor. All else being equal, silver is a bit more conductive than copper so for a given gauge and length of wire, silver will have a lower noise floor by virtue of its lower resistance.
But in this case, you're using the silver to create a resistor which I assume will be the same value as any other resistor you'd use and since silver is more conductive than say copper, you'd have to use a greater length to get the same resistance and if your silver resistor has the same resistance, it will have the same noise as if you'd made the same resistor out of copper.
So where is the noise floor being reduced?
se
fdegrove said:
Perhaps. Whatever it may be doing or not doing, if one doesn't care for the end result, it doesn't make much difference anyway.
Hmmmm. I've always wondered about the logic of that. It seems to imply that a master tape is somehow objectively "perfect" when in fact they are made using subjective evaluation in an acoustical environment quite different from the typical listening room and using equipment you typically don't see advertised in the pages of TAS and Stereophile.
And of course unless you listened to a master tape of a recording you already have, how could any meaningful comparison be made?
That may work for you and others, but it hasn't worked for me.
Hmmmm. How does one know what a recording really sounds like? All we can possibly know is what a recording sounds like after passing through the filter of the acoustical environment and electronics with which it's being reproduced.
Therefore it seems to me that it just boils down to which filters one prefers.
se
Hi,
And that's exactly the point. If you don't have at least one solid reference, what can you do?
Nobody's implying that a master is perfect, but it's what copies are made of...copies that are certainly less perfect than the original, even digital copies.
You have to draw the line somewhere, without an anchor you have no way to turn.
I am sorry to hear that, it works fine for me but then I do run a finely tuned system with a lot of attention paid to detail...
Works with copper wiring as well, but on a slightly inferior level.
To my mind, it's not down to what I prefer but to how close the system is to the source...
Personal preferences are ultimately just that.
Cheers,
And that's exactly the point. If you don't have at least one solid reference, what can you do?
Nobody's implying that a master is perfect, but it's what copies are made of...copies that are certainly less perfect than the original, even digital copies.
You have to draw the line somewhere, without an anchor you have no way to turn.
I am sorry to hear that, it works fine for me but then I do run a finely tuned system with a lot of attention paid to detail...
Works with copper wiring as well, but on a slightly inferior level.
To my mind, it's not down to what I prefer but to how close the system is to the source...
Personal preferences are ultimately just that.
Cheers,
Tom1356...winding tips...
Hi tom..
Although I've never tried silver, here is a nice way to wind..
Take the length of wire you need...fold it in half..
Take the folded end, and start winding with that...put a second, any guage wire (say, a yellow wire) between the two silver ones (in the middle of the fold), and one to the outside right of it (say, blue)..in other words, wrap four wires on the tube at a time..with the silver alternating with the others..you should see silver, yellow, silver, blue, silver, yellow, and so on...
The yellow and blue wires are just spacers to hold the silver wire an exact, even distance...this method allows you to use any guage yellow and blue wires to maintain even spacing..as long as you wrap tightly, with the folded end held well, then you can remove the yellow/blue wires..Or, you can use fishing line as spacers, and leave them in place..
Hope this helps..
Cheers, John
Hi tom..
Although I've never tried silver, here is a nice way to wind..
Take the length of wire you need...fold it in half..
Take the folded end, and start winding with that...put a second, any guage wire (say, a yellow wire) between the two silver ones (in the middle of the fold), and one to the outside right of it (say, blue)..in other words, wrap four wires on the tube at a time..with the silver alternating with the others..you should see silver, yellow, silver, blue, silver, yellow, and so on...
The yellow and blue wires are just spacers to hold the silver wire an exact, even distance...this method allows you to use any guage yellow and blue wires to maintain even spacing..as long as you wrap tightly, with the folded end held well, then you can remove the yellow/blue wires..Or, you can use fishing line as spacers, and leave them in place..
Hope this helps..
Cheers, John
Re: Re: Tom1356...winding tips...
Thanks..
Luckily, the moped outran them..nice try, but they have to be able to make at least 5 mph to catch the moped cowboy!!! Shoulda sent alaskan kings..I had the butter ready..
Cheers, John
Steve Eddy said:
Clever!
I see you survived the sand crabs. I guess I didn't send enough of 'em after you.
Welcome back, John!
se
Thanks..
Luckily, the moped outran them..nice try, but they have to be able to make at least 5 mph to catch the moped cowboy!!! Shoulda sent alaskan kings..I had the butter ready..
Cheers, John
Re: Tom1356...winding tips...
I agree with your thoughts but in practise these are very good sounding.
See here for more info.
http://www.audio-consulting.ch/silver_speaker_resistor.htm
Thanks for the advice. I will give it a try.
Magura said:
I agree with your thoughts but in practise these are very good sounding.
See here for more info.
http://www.audio-consulting.ch/silver_speaker_resistor.htm
sully said:
Thanks for the advice. I will give it a try.
One question:
( By the way I am fascinated by teflon insulated pure silver wire, silvermica caps, pure gold relais contacts and so on )
What does it help to have the most sophisticated parts on the playback side, if the signal is already spoiled on the recording side by magnetic resistors
, cheap op amps 
and electrolytic coupling caps 
Greetings, Bernhard
( By the way I am fascinated by teflon insulated pure silver wire, silvermica caps, pure gold relais contacts and so on )
What does it help to have the most sophisticated parts on the playback side, if the signal is already spoiled on the recording side by magnetic resistors
, cheap op amps and electrolytic coupling caps Greetings, Bernhard
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