Breaking in the AT120ET
Hopefully somebody will find this useful. I googled and found some interesting things on breaking in and tweaking the AT120ET. Some say it's a little bit sibilant when new. I agree, but...
-The Cardas Sweep record was recommended by one source. It has "locked grooves" of pink noise at full amplitude. So, I put mine on overnight. In the morning I found a trail of dust in that groove. Vinyl dust. The LP got the worst of that break in. One groove out of 20 is ruined, but the cartridge does sound better.
-Colin recommends a load of 40k. I liked 32k better, but will revisit when I have more time on the stylus.
- One site prescribed damping the little flip down stylus protector with fabric. I ended up with a little dab of duct seal in the same spot. It worked nicely. Cleaned up the vocals. Too much duct seal and it made the vocals sound a bit odd. Admittedly, if someone showed me a photo of this little grey smear I'd scoff at it.
Hugh
Hopefully somebody will find this useful. I googled and found some interesting things on breaking in and tweaking the AT120ET. Some say it's a little bit sibilant when new. I agree, but...
-The Cardas Sweep record was recommended by one source. It has "locked grooves" of pink noise at full amplitude. So, I put mine on overnight. In the morning I found a trail of dust in that groove. Vinyl dust. The LP got the worst of that break in. One groove out of 20 is ruined, but the cartridge does sound better.
-Colin recommends a load of 40k. I liked 32k better, but will revisit when I have more time on the stylus.
- One site prescribed damping the little flip down stylus protector with fabric. I ended up with a little dab of duct seal in the same spot. It worked nicely. Cleaned up the vocals. Too much duct seal and it made the vocals sound a bit odd. Admittedly, if someone showed me a photo of this little grey smear I'd scoff at it.
Hugh
I'm not afraid of more complicated constructions 
as long as it pays off .. sometimes it does , sometimes it doesn't . perfect DIY trail & error .
I hope to acchieve better decoupling with my T bar support , attached onto a
polycarbonate frame , connected to a massive TT plinth ( 2 sides , stainless or bronze pillars ) will see .
As for the bearing seat , I know how this works , I'll try both sharp edge bearings ( I mean realy sharp) as well as polished rounded edges .
I realy don't know what works best but I'll find out by doing some measuring which will tell me what I need to know .
Hopefuly I can listen to the double rod arm this weekend .
THX
Paul
as long as it pays off .. sometimes it does , sometimes it doesn't . perfect DIY trail & error .I hope to acchieve better decoupling with my T bar support , attached onto a
polycarbonate frame , connected to a massive TT plinth ( 2 sides , stainless or bronze pillars ) will see .
As for the bearing seat , I know how this works , I'll try both sharp edge bearings ( I mean realy sharp
) as well as polished rounded edges .I realy don't know what works best but I'll find out by doing some measuring which will tell me what I need to know .
Hopefuly I can listen to the double rod arm this weekend .
THX
Paul
Paul,
All the best, it will work this I know but in the process you will waste arm geometry, just trying to save you from record wow from that heightened pivot.
Hjam, at120e does need break in, I've since gone back to 47k as 40k and below damps too much highs, and rolls off the treble too soon, With break in and proper Vta it is fine. Track it at 1.8 grams on this arm, that aligns the magnets just right and zeros in the sound.
Colin
All the best, it will work this I know but in the process you will waste arm geometry, just trying to save you from record wow from that heightened pivot
.Hjam, at120e does need break in, I've since gone back to 47k as 40k and below damps too much highs, and rolls off the treble too soon, With break in and proper Vta it is fine. Track it at 1.8 grams on this arm, that aligns the magnets just right and zeros in the sound.
Colin
Hi Colin ,
No no , I'v managed to keep the pivot very low
It's not yet in the drawing ( have to redo that one ) , but I do understand the urge of keeping it as close as possible ! as well as a low underslung CW no worries .
As you stated earlier , I want to make the most out of decoupling the tonearm
from the mount , and or plinth , not a clue how it will work out , just trying to
follow my intuïtion based on earlier findings .
There's just one thing I hate about this LT arm , haha , at the end of each record I have to jump from behind my desk to lift the arm before it collaps
in the last groove .. i.e. TAK ... TAK ... TAK .. you know what I mean .
I want this new arm to have an infra red eye and some electronics along with
a CD laser transport , lifting the arm at the end of the long player
THX
Paul
No no , I'v managed to keep the pivot very low
It's not yet in the drawing ( have to redo that one ) , but I do understand the urge of keeping it as close as possible ! as well as a low underslung CW
no worries .As you stated earlier , I want to make the most out of decoupling the tonearm
from the mount , and or plinth , not a clue how it will work out , just trying to
follow my intuïtion based on earlier findings .
There's just one thing I hate about this LT arm , haha , at the end of each record I have to jump from behind my desk to lift the arm before it collaps
in the last groove .. i.e. TAK ... TAK ... TAK .. you know what I mean .
I want this new arm to have an infra red eye and some electronics along with
a CD laser transport , lifting the arm at the end of the long player
THX
Paul
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Colin,
Yes, I've found that adjusting the VTA is huge. Luckily mine adjusts very quickly. I will try that 1.8 g suggestion thanks. When I set the tracking force, it seems the vertical friction gives me a range of readings so...
All,
Is it best to polish the edges of the bearings? A bit of radius on the edge? Rough it up?
I'm still one the single 10mm tube, so perhaps this will resolve itself when I get the double tuber going.
Thanks,
Hugh
Hjam, its still a little of both tracking force gauge and visual with the two bearing two tube also, I you place the stylus down and there is no cantilever give it is too light . Set up well you will be floored by what the At offers as far as inner detail and musicality.
Paul,
Keep us posted, in the good nature of this thread as this design is getting better and better and we need to keep those ideas flowing from all, in the name of the best attainable sound!
Colin
. Set up well you will be floored by what the At offers as far as inner detail and musicality.Paul,
Keep us posted, in the good nature of this thread as this design is getting better and better and we need to keep those ideas flowing from all
, in the name of the best attainable sound!Colin
Colin,
It already does sound fantastic. Last night I switched back briefly to my Rega RB300 arm. Your creation with the AT120ET is clearly better. I have quite a few LPs that I thought were poor copies. In many cases, CD sounded better. This arm and cartridge is a game changer. Thanks for starting this thing!
Hugh
It already does sound fantastic. Last night I switched back briefly to my Rega RB300 arm. Your creation with the AT120ET is clearly better. I have quite a few LPs that I thought were poor copies. In many cases, CD sounded better. This arm and cartridge is a game changer. Thanks for starting this thing!
Hugh
bearing polishing
Hello All ,
Am I foolish ? Can one polish a round edge on a stainless bearing ? how many pads , time and rouge ( polishing compound ) would it take to get this done ? let alone getting to a certain acuracy ? Ýou got me floored on this one
wouldn't this be calling for controlled constant speed , RPM , as well as liquid cooled grinding and afterwards sanding ... polishing etc. ?
These things are going through my mind for quite some time already
As for the Audio Technica carts .. I just picked up a new boxed AT140LC . will try to score the 120E soon , so I can compare these with the AT20SLa I got here .
THX
Paul
Hello All ,
Am I foolish ? Can one polish a round edge on a stainless bearing ? how many pads , time and rouge ( polishing compound ) would it take to get this done ? let alone getting to a certain acuracy ? Ýou got me floored on this one
wouldn't this be calling for controlled constant speed , RPM , as well as liquid cooled grinding and afterwards sanding ... polishing etc. ?
These things are going through my mind for quite some time already
As for the Audio Technica carts .. I just picked up a new boxed AT140LC . will try to score the 120E soon , so I can compare these with the AT20SLa I got here .
THX
Paul
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RB300
The only way I got the 300B to realy sing was after a complete rebuild , new van den hul silver internal wiring , getting rid of the VTF springload ( completely removed it ) , and a Pebbles end stub / CW mod .
accompanied with Audio Technica OC9 MKII .. a serious killer combo !!! though not as refined as the LT arm , but darn close
The only way I got the 300B to realy sing was after a complete rebuild , new van den hul silver internal wiring , getting rid of the VTF springload ( completely removed it ) , and a Pebbles end stub / CW mod .
accompanied with Audio Technica OC9 MKII .. a serious killer combo !!! though not as refined as the LT arm , but darn close
spinning wheel:
You can round the edge by putting half of the bearing in a lathe if you have one or gently chuck half the width of the bearing in a drill run at high speed and polish the edges with crocus cloth ( rouge sand paper ). Use a magnifying glass and go easy. You mainly want to remove any roughness or tool marks. Any improvement in this area will help reduce friction and increase performance. To what degree is another story.
You can round the edge by putting half of the bearing in a lathe if you have one or gently chuck half the width of the bearing in a drill run at high speed and polish the edges with crocus cloth ( rouge sand paper ). Use a magnifying glass and go easy. You mainly want to remove any roughness or tool marks. Any improvement in this area will help reduce friction and increase performance. To what degree is another story.
Hi Hottattoo ,
Thanks man ! That sounds more easy to me indeed ! I have a fine minilathe here to do that job , will pay some time to find a proper sanding paper .
Many thx for putting me on the right track !!
Paul
I've found that a wide angle camera lens makes a fantastic magnifying glass. You get much higher magnification than a standard magnifying glass and a crystal clear image. Mine is an essential part of my toolbox. If you want to see if your bearing edges are truly posished a standard magnifying glass just doesn't compare.
Niffy
Niffy
Hi,
Some time ago I posted a product that will solve your problem most effectively. Look up the Butterworth Clocks web site. When asked for login information type in the word Butterworth in both places. when you get through to the site get the phone number and call. Ask for Mark (owner) or Andy (his son) and order a trial kit of his pivot polishing system. It goes for around $4.00. You get a mandrel and 3 carbide loaded abrasive disks. One each in coarse, medium and fine grits. The mandrel goes in a Dremel or other hand held grinder or drill. I made up a separate mandrel to hold the bearing and mount it in the lathe. Lacking a lathe, use an electric drill. I had no problem spinning the inner race at slow to medium speed and letting the abrasive disks spin the outer race. If there are obvious tool marks on the bearing race start with the coarse disk. Hold it against the edge of the bearing and run the disk for 15 to 20 seconds and inspect. Repeat as needed. Then progress to the medium grit and do the same. That should leave the edge of the bearing quite smooth and shiny. Finish it all with the fine disk for another 15 seconds and you should have a mirror finish. Clean it all up thoroughly using lacquer thinner, or other solvent and dry with compressed air/canned air. Lubricate or use dry as you choose. I'm using my bearings clean and dry as recommended by Cantus.
You may be able to duplicate this all with polishing pads and disks from Dremel, but I know this works and is the best solution.
Good Luck,
BillG
Paul,
Sorry, but I forgot you are in Europe and not in the States. I don't know what is available on the Continent. There must be Dremel or equivalent. Given your lathe and some abrasive paper or cloth and polishing compounds you should do alright.
BillG
Sorry, but I forgot you are in Europe and not in the States. I don't know what is available on the Continent. There must be Dremel or equivalent. Given your lathe and some abrasive paper or cloth and polishing compounds you should do alright.
BillG
Thx , Colin .
I went to the metal shop today and tried the difference in torsion between
different thinkness alu shapes , T , L , H , as well as some other weird examples . figured that all profiles with a 3MM+ thickness were a hell of a lot stiffer and much less resonant than the thinner variety .
for the sake of simplicity I bought a couple 3MM L shapes , rather than the
2MM ones I started with last week .
THX
Paul
I went to the metal shop today and tried the difference in torsion between
different thinkness alu shapes , T , L , H , as well as some other weird examples . figured that all profiles with a 3MM+ thickness were a hell of a lot stiffer and much less resonant than the thinner variety .
for the sake of simplicity I bought a couple 3MM L shapes , rather than the
2MM ones I started with last week .
THX
Paul